This is exactly how one of the buildings in downtown Vancouver is wired. Every stall on the main floor (I didn’t look at the other floors) had a 120v 20A plug. Just park and plug in.
Lawrence > On Nov 7, 2016, at 05:45, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > All of which is why simple 120v L1 outlets or cords wins hands down in any > all-day workplace parking lot. > 1) Wiring is only 15 amps per car instead of 50, > 2) Load is constant all day (eliminates demand charges on the owner > 3) Cost to install a $15 outlet is trivial compared to an EVSE > 4) No security issues > 5) No billing system required (pay by the month for the privilege) > 6) No way to game the system. No employer risk > 7) No complex control system that can fail > 7) NO maintenance (no complex evse at eash spot) > 8) Can split some of the load between AM and PM timed spaces for those > with 20 mile commutes > 9) No need for commuters to play musical cars in the parking lot all day > long to share expensve EVSE. > > -----Original Message----- > From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 10:15 PM > To: Lee Hart; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cheap L2 charging in parking places: Bolt EV's In > Production > > Lee, I was making the following points in my e-mail concerning the > installation of a large number of EVSEs in a parking area: > > > (1) The installation will be very expensive because of the size of the > required electrical distribution system > > (2) Maintenance will be expensive because of the large number of EVSEs and > equipment failure rates > > (3) The system will have a low utilization rate because vehicle will be > parked for an extended periods > > (4) System security is low because of scammers and no local oversight > > (5) Not a safe system because of a possible pool of water or vandalism. > > (6) The cost of an EVSE is small relative to the cost of the system; > therefore, a lower cost intelligent outlet will have a minor impact on the > total system cost. > > > Due to the above points, the installation of a large number of EVSEs in a > parking area (1) is not an efficient use of equipment, (2) has low system > security, (3) unsafe system and (4) is not a good use of capital. > > > My suggestion to solve the problem was for everyone to charge at home with > a NEMA type outlet or use an induction type system in a parking area. > > > An induction type system reduces the installation cost because of a > reduction in the size of the electrical distribution system. With an > induction coupled system, the main source can sense the presence of a > vehicle or if a vehicle requires power; therefore, the main source can be > sized to the utilization rate. The main source can alternate between > vehicles. This cannot be done with an EVSE system. The NEC requires that > the service required for each EVSE be sized at full load. See Perl > Hartman e-mail describing a 100 plug L2 system. It required 2000A at > 120VAC. With a 20% utilization rate, the induction system would only > require 400A at 120VAC. Maintenance cost would be lower because the > system consist of a main power source, distribution panel, and numerous > coils of wire. The system is safer because it is not effected by water > and is secure from vandalism. > > > Other technical points: > > An X10 system (PowerLine Transmission) will not work in an industrial or > commercial environment because of signal attenuation, electrical noise, > transmission across transformers, and low data transmission rate. RF is > not reliable in a structure with high levels of electrical noise or a lot > of rebar (steel) and concrete. Cell phones and radios do not work > reliably in underground or high rise parking garages or some houses. In > my house, I cannot use a wireless modem. My house has to much rebar, > concrete, and earth. > > > I looked at the nameplate on the Magne Charger that I have in my workshop. > It showed: Charge Port CP7100, 475VAC Peak, 22A AC Max, 400 Hz, 6.5 KW Max > Output Power, Manf Date July 1996. Also, it showed the manufacturer as > Delso Electronics Power Control Systems. This is the unit that is > installed in the car. I could not find the nameplate data on the pedestal > unit with the paddle. If you have any electrical schematics or other info > on these units, I would be interested. Thanks Bob Hensley. > > > ________________________________ > From: EV <[email protected]> on behalf of Lee Hart via EV > <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2016 9:59 AM > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cheap L2 charging in parking places: Bolt EV's In > Production > > ROBERT via EV wrote: >> An EVSE requires an AC cable and data cable. An intelligent outlet >> would still require the same two cables. In addition, a specialty >> intelligent outlet would cost $100 - $200 (guesstimate). > > Not really. An intelligent outlet could do the same, and use RF, or > carrier current signalling to communicate with the EV. > > For example, the GM EV1 Magnechargers used RF signals for authentication. > Remember, they had *no* wires between the vehicle and EVSE. > > The common X10 system is used to remotely control all sorts of AC loads. > Special outlets have a circuit that can send and receive data over the > existing AC power line wiring, and can switch the AC on or off. These > outlets are mass-produced and sell for only $20 or so each. > >> However, the high cost is the installation cost and maintenance cost. > > People forget that large areas of the nation have already had a charging > infrastructure for a very long time. It's been there to plug in ICE block > heaters, Christmas lights, run electric lawnmowers, etc. > > Outdoor AC outlets have been required by the NEC (National Electric Code > for decades. In the states where I've lived (Michigan, New York, and > Minnesota, just about every home, apartment, and business has these > standard 120vac 15a convenience outlets already installed and freely > available for use. > >> High installation and maintenance cost are a problem with developing >> an EV charging infrastructure. The answer is to charge at home with a >> NEMA outlet or install induction charging stations. > > That's true, if they insist on something new, proprietary, and > incompatible with existing systems. Unfortunately, these become the > *requirements* when someone wants to create a new monopoly to get rich. > >> However, for induction charging to work efficiently, you need higher >> frequency chargers. Remember the EV1 induction charging paddle. The >> system operated at 400 HZ. > > The EV1 Magnecharger worked at a much high frequency (around 50 KHz). > The higher frequency actually *hurt* efficiency, but was necessary to make > the paddle small and light. > > We've had 60 Hz induction charging setups for 50%+ years. For example, > Inductran has made them for charging in-plant EVs. Half of a conventional > 60 Hz transformer is in the floor, and the other half in the vehicle. > Drive over it, and turn it on. The two halves of the transformer > magnetically link, to charge safely and efficiently. > > We don't really need expensive high-tech solutions for charging. It's > fundamentally no different than plugging in any other appliance, and > people have been doing that for 100 years. > > -- > Buy thneeds! It's what everyone needs! Get em' now 'fore they're gone! > Which they'll be, before long! -- "The Lorax" by Dr. Seuss > -- > (The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all "The > Lorax" by Dr. Seuss > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, > www.sunrise-ev.com<http://www.sunrise-ev.com> > The Sunrise EV2 Project<http://www.sunrise-ev.com/> > www.sunrise-ev.com > The Sunrise EV2 Project Homepage. Welcome! We are a group of dedicated > electric vehicle enthusiasts whose goal is to create an affordable, high > performance electric ... > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > EV -- Electric Vehicle Discussion List - lists.evdl.org > ...<http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org> > lists.evdl.org > The Electric Vehicle Discussion List is a forum for discussing the current > state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles (EVs). We > define an EV as a ... > > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ EVDL EV News Archive - > Electric Vehicle Discussion List<http://evdl.org/evln/> evdl.org EVLN - EV > News Archive Edited by Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter: EVLN: home | help | > archive | news | privacy policy | terms of service > > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > [https://s1.yimg.com/dh/ap/default/130909/y_200_a.png]<http://groups.yahoo > .com/group/NEDRA> > > Yahoo! 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