I thought your 85% was the people owning BEVs that also had solar. Or was it the amount of charging, or both?
I think that amount of home charging varies widely. Some charge at home entirely, some charge elsewhere most of the time. And those charging at night during the winter may be using the greatest amount of fossil. That’s the peak where I am. As far as hassle, some would say “what hassle?”. As far as all this, you and I don’t know, but the models can tell us much better than we can by pulling out one factor or another. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Jun 4, 2020, at 4:15 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > True for public EVSE, But the flip side to your arguments are that 85% of > all charging is at home. And it is no coincidence that the vast majority of > people who buy EV's doso for the future and so they are also mostly the > people that subscribe to clean electricity. Why else would one put up with > the "hassle" of an EV if not for their desire for clean energy? > > Yes, I'd love to see the most recent data. A decade ago, the number of > people (mostly California) that charged from solar was about 45%. Then > maybe 5 years ago, the FORD survey indicated 85% of Ford EV purchasers > charged from clean electricity or would if their utility offered it (now 17 > states do). Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: EV <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz via EV > Subject: Re: [EVDL] (offt) h2 won’t overtake EVs> hampered by science & CO2 > lies > > That’s a great point. > > Not taking away from the point: > > - I’m not sure that your numbers are not old. > > - Given the demand for non-household EVSE, people are charging using the > grid mix no matter what they use at home. > > - as the mix of renewables to fossils on the grid change, most will be > charging when fossil resources are used in greater percentages. This will > change both diurnally and seasonally. > > - As BEVs become more popular, I think that percentage of those buying > energy cleaner than the grid will drop to levels closer to the grid mix. > > Again, your point is good, but the overall numbers I don’t think are as high > as you think. But I have no data on this. > > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Jun 4, 2020, at 8:41 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> The #1 problem with most CO2 assessments of EV emissions is they take >> the Grid mix (say 65% coal and Natural gas, etc) and apply that to the >> EV while surveys show that 85% of EV buyers also *BUY* 100% clean >> electricity either from their own solar panels, or by signing up for Wind >> from their utility. >> >> They ignore the demographics of who buys EVs! >> >> Saying that an EV runs on 65% fossil fuels is like saying I have an >> 18% chance of dying from lung cancer because 18% of Americans smoke. I >> don’t! >> .... and I don’t drive my EV on dirty electricity either. >> >> Even taking the real grid mix of say 65% dirty, there are other factors. >> First the EV consumes 1/3d of the energy as a gas car for the same >> performance. Second lets say 1/2 of EV drivers actually buy clean energy. >> Multiply all these factors, 1/3rd x 1/2 x 65% and you get about 10% as >> the AVERAGE CO2 emissions compared to a gas car. >> >> Use this to push back anytime you hear someone comparing EV's, the >> grid mix and gas cars. >> >> Bob >> Author http://aprs.org/Energy-Choices.html >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: EV <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV >> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 10:52 AM >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> >> Cc: Peri Hartman <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] (offt) h2 won’t overtake EVs> hampered by science >> >> So glad to see an article that clearly blasts the myth of fuel cells. >> It's about time that people wake up and realize that you don't capture >> hydrogen by swishing around large sacks on top of mountains. >> >> On the other hand, to be more complete, I think the article (or some >> article) should also talk about the amortized effects of manufacturing >> both kinds of systems. I'm pretty sure that building a large battery >> has a larger >> CO2 effect, not to mention other environment effects, than building a >> fuel cell. I believe batteries still come out substantially ahead, and >> more so in the future as the technology improves, but numbers are the >> best way to > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
