On Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 12:51 Willie via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 7/30/20 9:29 AM, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
> > On Thu Jul 30 09:49:15 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >> On 7/30/20 7:03 AM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
> >>> Yes, that looks promising..  How much is the 3 or 5kw model?
> >>
> >>
> https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-3kW-24V-Any-Grid-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverer-p/phocos-psw-h-3kw-230-24v.htm
> >>
> >>
> https://www.ecodirect.com/Phocos-Any-Grid-5kW-48V-Hybrid-Off-Grid-Inverter-p/phocos-psw-h-5kw-230-48v.htm
> >
> > I'll be interested once it's proven that you can use a battery pack for
> the PV input, AND not have a 48V battery pack attached.
> I'd look at the Delta first.  It's cheaper and immediately available.
> In addition, there is a great deal of uncertainty as to exactly what it
> wants for a battery; it was designed for a not available Tesla battery.
> The recent use has been just as a straightforward grid tie inverter.
> The seller has started advertising that it will produce grid down PV
> power without a battery.  I've tested just a little but not yet had
> success.

I am not convinced from a skim through the
SolarCity H6 manual that this inverter can supply AC output power when
there is no grid, and simultaneously no battery. Only a few inverters can
pull off that balancing act. SMA has one that does it via the Secure Power
Supply feature, and Enphase's IQ8 is supposed to be another.

Most likely the inverter can operate without a battery if it is dumping
power on the grid. Adding the battery gives the inverter a place to source
and dump power that at the time it is needed, that the solar cannot
provide, and the loads cannot use.

I saw this on  https://plugoutpower.com/f/best-uses-for-the-plugout

"A PlugOut Prius can produce about 8kwh per gallon of gasoline.
...<snip>...  That's about half to 2/3 the cost of mechanical generators."

That means they claim by using a direct high voltage battery connection to
a Prius, they can achieve around 24% thermal efficiency assuming 33
kWh/gallon is the energy content of gasoline, and deliver up to 3 or 5
kW. Regular
gensets are around 14-15% thermal efficiency. Energy path on Prius: ICE ->
MG1 (15 kW minimum) -> ~200-250v traction battery (or skipped when engine
is running) -> inverter outputing 240v AC -> autotransformer to split and
balance two 120v phases.

A Gen 4 Prius ICE is rated at 40% thermal efficiency. It seems plausible
that one can obtain the results claimed if each step operates at 90%.




PlugOut Power is a rebranding/of ConVerdant for anyone who remembered their
earlier incarnation.

Thread that includes discussion using the SolarCity H6 with a Prius. Also a
comment on efficiency of the solution they have been using.


Quote from User 'CoinHead':
TinMan0023 said: ↑

Problem with the Prius Battery as Solar is the MPPT tries to moderate the
V/A ratios for efficiency and I don’t think that will work.

How is it working for you? I might be wrong...

"Well it's not really working that well with the H6 but the Prius works
great with the midnight classic charge controller on my 48 volt system. And
when I say great I mean as long as I'm not using more than the charge
controller can produce there's no problem. I set up a custom wind chart for
it to follow. But as soon as it goes to bulk mode because the demand is
higher than the charge controller can produce then the charge controller
will kick off and on cycling. most of the time this cycling is enough to
bring it back up once the load is removed but sometimes I have to reduce
the voltage output in the charger settings so that it more closely matches
the battery voltage and goes back to absorb. Then I can raise voltage
setpoint a little at a time over the next 10 seconds and it does fine.
Pretty but it doesn't cycle at all because I know that at night when I'm
running off the Prius I shouldn't use more than 2500 watts. I've been doing
it now for 6 months 16 hours every night. Soon I'll have my lithium
batteries home and set up and I won't be running the Prius anymore but dang
it sure has been a nice quiet powerful generator. And one gallon for 16
hours has been amazing compared to the 2 gallons the little Honda 2k
inverter generator needed.

With the H6 it seems to me that it wouldn't be able to do any mppt sweep
because as it put a load on the source it would max itself out before it
found the maximum power point. Makes sense to me it should just stay there
sucking 6000 Watts out of the Prius happily. But then there's that dang arc
fault shut down. Can't I just take a pair of pliers to the arc fault
detection circuit and break it off the board?"

SolarCity H6 Manual:
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