Please explain how a flammable gas is not an energy source?Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network. -------- Original message --------From: "(-Phil-)" <p...@ingineerix.com> Date: 2023-11-06 2:11 p.m. (GMT-05:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: 63urban <63ur...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV's not a green success. What? Hydrogen is NOT an alternative to Nuclear! Hydrogen is a STORAGE MEDIUM, not an energy source! Just like a battery pack, something needs to charge it (generate the hydrogen).Not to get too far off base, but Nuclear does not really have a waste problem compared to fossil. It's also massively safer (killed less people). In fact, your average coal plant puts an order of magnitude more radioactive waste into the environment than a same sized coal plant!On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 10:56 AM 63urban via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:Hydrogen is an alternative to nuclear and more technology will be developed. Not a fan of nuclear for its danger and its waste.NickSent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network. -------- Original message --------From: Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 2023-11-06 1:41 p.m. (GMT-05:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Michael Ross <michael.e.r...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV's not a green success. I note a couple things about Zeihan's POV: He is talking about globaldefossilizing. Not mere vehicle electrification. We face the fact that EVsare just a small part of what needs solving.If he is correct, and his business is doing the math, we need to work onthings that have a possibility of helping on a global scale. Much as I hatethe idea, all 7 billion of us need nuclear solutions. There is a place forsolar and wind, but the sun doesn't shine enough where we need it and samewith wind. We should not waste our precious time and treasure on faultyplans.All the comments on this thread have failed to actually understand what heis talking about, or even watch it, seemingly.It is just arithmetic he is presenting. What is he getting wrong?He says if you add up all the copper in the world, how it has to get used,where more comes from, the time it takes to ramp production, accounting forrecycling, and so on, we are in trouble. Likewise, paladiums, tin, aluminum(take enormous amounts of electricity), magnet materials, and so on, wecome up way short.None of you out here make it your business to ferret out all the details.This is Zeihan's business and he has research staff behind him. I recommendhis most recent book which has a very interesting chapter on industrialmaterials. It is short and not fleshed out fully, but I follow his logic,and don't believe he has anything pushing him to make stuff up. He likesthe outdoors and wants a clean environment. But, he seems certain thatmaking any headway won't come from electrification except after manydecades, potentially a century. If he is anywhere near correct, then weneed to reconfigure our efforts. Now.On Sun, Nov 5, 2023, 2:19 PM Thos True via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:> I find it difficult to believe that we are once again being drawn into the> argument that the grid cannot support the demand for EV's.> Society has been in this situation several times since the early 1900's.> With each new electrical product's popularity (televisions, refrigerators,> air conditioners, hot tubs, washers and dryers, motorhomes, Mcmansions,> housing developments, fast food restaurants, factories, etc), the same> fearful cry was heard. Development of "the grid" has been ahead of demand> in the majority of markets, as they are a business that wants to sell as> much of their products as possible. Even when the demand levels off,> utilities are continuously upgrading the equipment with more efficient> devices to maximize output utilizing the same foot print ( fenced in> facilities, usually).> Most vehicles use around the same amount of electricity per charge as> running a dryer for a couple of cycles (how many people think twice about> doing that?).> Just my 2 watts worth,> Tom True>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 5:32 PM EV@TucsonEV via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:>> > Well, once again, it looks like the thread has strayed from EV's into> > politics...> >> > Best regards,> >> > Rush Dougherty> > TucsonEV> > 1014 E King St> > Tucson AZ 85719> > 520 240 7493> > www.TucsonEV.com> >> >> >> >> > EV List Lackey wrote -> > > "To understand the Republican party, or the Democratic party, for that> > matter,> > it is> > > most efficient to look directly at the clients -- or as political> > scientist> > Thomas> > > Ferguson would call them, the 'major investors.'> > > On that level, the ideological contradictions are unimportant.> Political> > parties do> > > function as mediating institutions, just not for voters."> > >> > > -- William Greider, "Who Will Tell the People"> >> > Well, once again, it looks like the thread has strayed from EV's into> > politics...> >> > Best regards,> >> > Rush Dougherty> > TucsonEV> > www.TucsonEV.com> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields> > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/> >> >> -------------- next part --------------> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...> URL: <> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231105/46f5d507/attachment.htm> >> _______________________________________________> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org> No other addresses in TO and CC fields> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/>>-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231106/714c8c90/attachment.htm>_______________________________________________Address messages to e...@lists.evdl.orgNo other addresses in TO and CC fieldsHELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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