Send EV mailing list submissions to
        ev@lists.sjsu.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 10th S10 outing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   2. Re: Exide Orbital Pricing Info (Lee Hart)
   3. Re: motor woes (JS)
   4. Re: Sugarcoating and cell photography (WAS: Floodies/Batt.
      murder mystery) (Lee Hart)
   5. Re: Some info at my site I put up / was Advancing Motor
      Brushes? (Jim Husted)
   6. Re: Advancing Motor Brushes? (Jeff Shanab)
   7. Re: Video of 914 AC kit from ElectroAuto (Dale Ulan)
   8. Re: 10th S10 outing (Bill Dube)
   9. Re: Some info at my site I put up / was Advancing Motor
      Brushes? (Dan Frederiksen)
  10. 10th S10 outing & NEDRA 10th Anniversary Races (John Wayland)
  11. Re: NEDRA Nationals Racer/Exhibitor Head Count (keith vansickle)
  12. looking for Auburn info (keith vansickle)
  13. Re: motor woes (dale henderson)
  14. KillaCycle in Wikipedia (Bill Dube)
  15. Re: Some info at my site I put up / was Advancing Motor
      Brushes? (Jim Husted)
  16. Re: Video of 914 AC kit from ElectroAuto ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  17. Re: Lose the spare tire? (Lee Hart)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 11:58:46 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 10th S10 outing
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

After 9 easy short runs around the block ect. I covered 21 miles this morning 
with a couple of hard takeoffs.I think she has at least a 25mile range 
without hurting the batteries.It took a day and a half to get the s10 
registered.While they preformed a class 2 inspection I was told to go to the 
waiting room 
after 20 minutes I had to go see what was taking so long.The officers were 
taking pictures of each other by the truck.At the mvd most of the cashiers had 
to 
come outside and ck.it out.It seems wereever I go it takes me longer do to the 
folks that want to ck it out. Its 88F this morning at my house in phoenix and 
the motor case temp.is 105F with the comm.at 121 after 21 miles and the 
controller water temp is at 117F.I am not sure if this is good or bad due to my 
lack 
of experence driving a street truck.Any comments would be welcome.At 50 mph 
on a flat road The 360 pack is at 340 and the ampmeters read 25 to 30 amps.Two 
minutes after getting back the OCV on each battery was 12.38 to 12.41Again I 
am not sure if this is good or not.I have been charging with a onboard pfc20 to 
14.1 volts per battery then useing 6 deltran transformers with 5 outputs each 
through 30 bridge rectifers and 30 caps to balance/finish charge.The 
transformers are feed by a autotrans so I can set the finish charge at whatever 
voltage I want.At the end of the charge while still on the finish chargers the 
voltage between the 26ah hawker batteries is within .011.I am having more fun 
driving this than the dragster at this time.With the last nhra points race last 
weekend the dragster is now qualified to race in the division 7 race of champs 
in 
vegas in october.                        Dennis Berube with a large ev grin.  
 


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 11:08:49 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Exide Orbital Pricing Info
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <<< The main reason Lead-Acid batteries are going up in price, is because Lead
> is going up in cost. Plus the price of FUel is on the rise, and
> batteries, being large and heavy, take a fair amount of fuel to move. >>>
> 
> You didn't mention the petroleum-based cases, separators, etc...those must 
> cost
> more to make, too.

Yes, but they are only 5% or so of the total weight. Last I heard, a 
lead acid battery is about 55% lead, 40% electrolyte, and 5% other 
materials (case, separator, etc.).

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 08:58:59 -0700
From: JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor woes
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

   "Turns out the guy at the shop is just a trained monkey. "

   "I've trained about a
> hundred guys over the years but I couldn't begin to
> tell you how many motors they had to take apart again
> cause they didn't do something right and the motor
> didn't test!  I think my biggest factor in this is I
> hate rework and honestly after I've built it I don't
> EVer want to see it again. . ."

An old piano tuner told me "The difference between an amateur
and a professional is the amateur never knows when to quit.
The pro knows there is no such thing as perfection.
Until you've done a thousand pianos you are an amateur."

Sounds like the same applies to motors.
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 11:23:53 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sugarcoating and cell photography (WAS:
        Floodies/Batt. murder mystery)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Chuck Hursch wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I just wanted to get back to Roger, Roland and others on this.
> Roger had wondered in private discussion last November what this
> sugarcoating was, what appears to be white crystals on top of my
> US125's plates.  Roland had suggested something to the effect
> that my battery chemistry had gotten out of whack.  To reiterate,
> I had received my batteries from the local distributor in the
> May/June 2005 timeframe.  I shortly noticed that the electrolyte
> levels were the lowest I had ever seen in new batteries, and
> certainly far lower than I ever had in my previous two packs (my
> first pack was US2300s, second was Trojan T125s).  Specific
> gravity (sg) readings were quite low too, and never came up very
> well.  Battery weight seemed ok at about 65 lbs each.  Over the
> next few months, my goal was to add water to reach the meniscus
> level on the filler neck.  I got there, yep.  Then somewhere in
> there I went on my first long drive, some 40 miles with total
> elevation gain of something like 1500-2000 feet.  Shortly
> thereafter, I noticed a whitish crystalline coating on the tops
> of the plates, something I had never seen before on any of my
> previous packs.  My sg readings took a dive of maybe 20 points.
> About a year later, I load tested my pack to 5.25V @ 75A, which
> went about 105 minutes before the first battery hit 5.25V (not
> bad).  Very cloudy electrolyte at the end of that load test.  A
> few days or a week or two later, had a look-see in a cell, and
> was rather shocked to see even more whitish coating (I call it
> sugarcoating).
> 
> To digress, it's rather difficult to take a picture of a cell in
> a battery that's a member of a pack, like in the car.  It's dark
> and gloomy down in there, and any light shined in tends to
> reflect on the surface of the electrolyte.  So a flash is more or
> less out.  A polarizing filter might work, but I don't know how
> well they work with your typical digital camera, and they are a
> bit pricey.  A fellow EV'er suggested using a prism in line
> between the camera lens and the cell, which prism would have a
> light shown on it from the side - the light would bounce down
> into the cell and be reflected back up through the prism to the
> camera, polarization issues taken care of; I haven't had a chance
> to try this out, but he said they used something like this at
> work in the past.  I had the idea of maybe running some fiber
> optic light tubes down into the filler neck, spread them out
> through the vertical slots in the filler neck - that would
> probably keep the reflections off to the side, and might work as
> long as I could control the fibers going into the cell and keep
> them out of the way of the camera.  But it all came down to a
> couple of months ago me going at it with an LED flashlight,
> offset slightly along the side of the camera body, and I was able
> to get the images referred to below with a bit of squirming,
> teeth gnashing, and mouse pushing with some image processing on
> the computer.  Drum roll please!...
> 
> At http://www.geocities.com/chursch/batteries/cell_pics:
> 
> IMG_1123:  This is a shot of one of my spares (I buy 20
> batteries, 16 go into the car, 4 are kept for spares and to serve
> as an eventual UPS for the computer).  Said spares was low on
> electrolyte at the start, as were the others.  I added a little
> water.  The spares have been equalize-charged once a month at
> "constant" current (I use a variac here) till the voltage no
> longer rises.  sg is in the vicinity of 1260-1270.  Nothing that
> I call sugarcoating appears here.
> 
> IMG_1144:  Here's a shot of some sugarcoating (that white stuff)
> in one of the car's cells.  The sg of the particular cell seems
> to bear no relationship to how much sugarcoating there is.  Some
> cells have more than others.  There seems to be less sugarcoating
> as time goes by, but I suspect most of it may be going to the
> bottom of the battery, potentially causing sludge problems there,
> and I doubt the white stuff is ever going to fully disappear.
> 
> I have a vote from one knowledgeable Bay Area EV'er that the
> sugarcoating is lead oxide; however, I did not have an image to
> show him at the time.  I'd be curious as to what Roland, Roger,
> et.al. have to say.
> 
> Also, I'd be curious as to whether anyone has done cell
> photography of cells in a pack.  Tips?  We had one photograph I
> recall from many years ago that someone had taken of an 8V
> battery cell.  It looked like a bunch of worms down in that cell,
> with the plates expanding over the tops of the separators.
> However, I think that battery was out in the open, so light could
> shine through the case.
> 
> Remarkably, I have some hope for this pack.  I think it is fairly
> likely to get me to the 10K or 12K mile points that I consider
> the minimum to financially justify a pack (and it only gets
> harder to justify as the battery prices keep climbing towards the
> stratosphere).  I'm at 7K and change now.  The pack is feeling
> stronger, and the sg readings are all rising as all that water I
> put in is getting gassed off.  When the electrolyte levels get
> back down about where they were at the start of this whole
> affair, the sg readings bob up rather quickly, like little ducky
> toys in a tub.  My pack average is now at 1262.  When a cell
> reaches about 1270 or better, and is getting the level kinda
> close to the tops of the separators, I'll add some water, not
> much, and it's a guesstimate, but so far that has served me
> fairly well.  Maybe a quarter or a third of the cells required
> some water in last month's battery maintenance.
> 
> I'm also trying what some people suggested several months ago,
> and that is not charging every night - wait till the pack gets to
> 1/3 to 1/2 of the way down, whatever that is.  When I'm working,
> I drive far enough so that I do need to charge it every night,
> although I'm close to being able to do it every other night.  The
> last couple of weeks, I have been on vacation, and I have not
> charged it every day I use it.  This seems to work well, seems to
> "stretch" the pack some.  I begin to wonder if charging the pack
> every night after every little short trip causes problems for the
> batteries, like maybe some layering ossification of the plate
> structure.  Pores close up?  ??
> 
> My plan is to get all the cells in the vicinity of 1260-1270.  I
> think this is going to take several more months, because one is
> still back at 1220-5, and several are residing in the 1240s.
> Once I get everyone at 1260-1270 or as close as I can get it,
> I'll likely try a load test, say to about 60 minutes @ 75A, to
> see if I have any baddies.  Wait a month or two to see how things
> go post load test.  Then I'm pondering adding in 1265 electrolyte
> in stages over a few months up towards the meniscus level.  I
> have heard these batteries termed acid limited, so supposedly
> having more electrolyte on hand will give the battery greater
> capacity.
> 
> But by then, my batteries will be a good three to four years old,
> so maybe it isn't worth it.  We'll see.
> 
> Suggestions?

The light grey stuff is sulfation. It usually forms when a battery has 
sat around partially discharged or dead for a long time. It is lead 
sulfate that is normally produced when a battery discharges, but that 
due to its location it failed to convert back into lead oxide when the 
battery was charged.

The cloudiness you get in the electrolyte is from microscopic bits of 
this lead sulfate that fell off the plate due to vibration or heavy 
gassing. It usually settles out at the bottom as "sludge". If it gets 
deep enough, it can short the plates together at the bottom. At that 
point the battery is basically shot.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:27:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Some info at my site I put up / was Advancing
        Motor   Brushes?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


--- Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> for Jim Husted
> 
> have you ever tested the over rev breaking point for
> a typical 8 inch motor?
> since higher rpm means more HP that would seem to be
> an important ceiling
> 
> it might say max rpm 5500 but does that mean it will
> do 9000 for hours 
> without breaking or does it mean it will explode at
> 5700?

Dan

Unfortunantly I'm not one of the rich guys and can't
afford to blow up 8" motors (heck make that any
motor)lol.  In fact if I had them just laying around
I'd sell them.  

In as much as everyone would love to have cold hard
facts on this there isn't a concrete answer.  In
general the 6.7's, 7's, and 8's all use the same basic
comm sizes and I'd advise not to go over 7000 RPM's
(actually 6K for comfort).

The 9" motor comms move up in size and can be as large
as some 11" comms so these two sizes can be classed
together with a ceiling of 5000 RPM's.

Waylands 8" motors were tached at running 6500 last
month and haven't blown yet but he's getting close to
his upper limit.  FWIW it's much better to keep the
RPM's in the sweetspot than to top out the RPM's.

There are many factors that can determine a DC motors
RPM's limit with one being how hot the comm is at the
time of the RPM limit.  Personal experiences will vary
and is why I try to advise using the lowest safe RPM
limiting that one can afford to use.  DC motors are
not the perfect motor but they are affordable and
there are many many EV's running them so my job is to
help keep them running with the best advise I can
offer from what I see from my end.  

If I EVer win the lottery I'll blow a few motors up
for you hows that sound?  Hell I'll take video!  Until
then all I can do is work with the racers as they are
the ones pushing the limits and where much of the data
comes from.  BTW just because someone says or gets
7000 RPM's don't mean you won't blow yours at 6500
RPM's as there is no way to make EVery comm to be
exactly the same without huge costs being involved,
and is not the nature of these factory made units.

Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato? 
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
 



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 09:27:59 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Advancing Motor Brushes?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

OK, I'll have a go. The guru's can correct me if I go horribly wrong.

The Set up :
    The series DC motors we use have 4 filed coils all in series that
generate 2 north and 2 south poles inside the case.

        ______
       /N    S\
      |        |
      |        |
       \S____N/

The armature is made up of about 59 coils all tied together in one big
series loop with each connection brought out to a comm bar.

The are 4 brushes. After going thru 4 field coils to set up the 2 north
pole and 2 south pole the current enters 2 brushes, travels thru the
coils to the other 2 brushes where it exits


  / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |  coils
  | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
  / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \
    CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC
    CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC     Comm Bars
    CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC
    CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC  CC
       BBBBBB          BBBBB
       BBBBBB          BBBBB
       BBBBBB          BBBBB
       BBBBBB          BBBBB
       BBBBBB          BBBBB
         M+              M-

The M+ and M- brush are 90 degrees apart and the brushes usually sit on
3 comm bars.
As the armature rotates the comm bars slid under the brush, a given coil
goes from haveing a M+ to it's left and an M- to its right to the
oppostie. The current changes direction in that coil.

The magnetic field the armature creates pushes on the magnetic field the
field creates, The harder it pushes and the faster it pushes the more it
distorts the field.

The Neutral Point.:
    As the comm bars pass under the brush, the coil is shorted. In the
space between the fields is a place where the magnetic field is zero the
induced voltage in the armature coil is zero and shorting it is less of
a problem. The residual energy in the inductance has dissipated or is small.


Now it gets interesting:
    This point where the coil has zero energy shifts under high load and
with rpm. When no advancement has been put in their, At higher rpm's the
coil still has energy when the brush shorts and a trailing spark ensues.
This increases and eventually a flash over occurs and ZZZZZZorch.
Advancing the motor when at low rpms robs you of low end torque, but
failing to advance the timeing for those times when you are at higher
rpms risks damage and reduces torque avail at higher rpm. The
manufactures pick a particualr rpm and load they think the motor will
see, set it there and call it good.




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:32:22 -0600
From: "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Video of 914 AC kit from ElectroAuto
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"


>Is that high pitched noise the brakes or something else?

That'd be the carrier frequency of the AC inverter. An AC inverter generates
three low frequency (0-500 Hz) sine waves but it does it by pulse-width
modulating a carrier frequency of somewhere between 5,000 and 20,000 Hz.
Well, it's not strictly just PWM - many modern controllers use SVM which is
essentially centre-aligned PWM on the three outputs of the inverter - but
basically the effect is the same. Lower frequencies are more efficient
(switching and magnetic losses) but more audible.

-Dale



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 09:29:41 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 10th S10 outing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Sounds like you have found the ultimate EV grin. :-)

         Sweet machine, and folks appreciate it. You are showing 
folks that an EV can be a fast, sharp, and enviable car to drive.

         Bill Dube'

At 08:58 AM 8/4/2007, you wrote:
>After 9 easy short runs around the block ect. I covered 21 miles this morning
>with a couple of hard takeoffs.I think she has at least a 25mile range
>without hurting the batteries.It took a day and a half to get the s10
>registered.While they preformed a class 2 inspection I was told to 
>go to the waiting room
>after 20 minutes I had to go see what was taking so long.The officers were
>taking pictures of each other by the truck.At the mvd most of the 
>cashiers had to
>come outside and ck.it out.It seems wereever I go it takes me longer 
>do to the
>folks that want to ck it out. Its 88F this morning at my house in phoenix and
>the motor case temp.is 105F with the comm.at 121 after 21 miles and the
>controller water temp is at 117F.I am not sure if this is good or 
>bad due to my lack
>of experence driving a street truck.Any comments would be welcome.At 50 mph
>on a flat road The 360 pack is at 340 and the ampmeters read 25 to 
>30 amps.Two
>minutes after getting back the OCV on each battery was 12.38 to 12.41Again I
>am not sure if this is good or not.I have been charging with a 
>onboard pfc20 to
>14.1 volts per battery then useing 6 deltran transformers with 5 outputs each
>through 30 bridge rectifers and 30 caps to balance/finish charge.The
>transformers are feed by a autotrans so I can set the finish charge 
>at whatever
>voltage I want.At the end of the charge while still on the finish 
>chargers the
>voltage between the 26ah hawker batteries is within .011.I am having more fun
>driving this than the dragster at this time.With the last nhra 
>points race last
>weekend the dragster is now qualified to race in the division 7 race 
>of champs in
>vegas in october.                        Dennis Berube with a large ev grin.
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 18:38:38 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Some info at my site I put up / was Advancing
        Motor   Brushes?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

thanks I appreciate it.
I understand you can't just waste a perfectly good motor. maybe it 
happened by accident once :)
I saw in your album that you got a lot of used motors once. if any of 
those might be scrapped would it be possible to spin that to breaking 
point? just a thought

I get the impression you see the limiting factor as the commutators? I 
thought maybe there were structural issues with the rotor coming apart 
but that's not the issue?

thanks
Dan

Jim Husted wrote:
> Dan
>
> Unfortunantly I'm not one of the rich guys and can't
> afford to blow up 8" motors (heck make that any
> motor)lol.  In fact if I had them just laying around
> I'd sell them.  
>
> In as much as everyone would love to have cold hard
> facts on this there isn't a concrete answer.  In
> general the 6.7's, 7's, and 8's all use the same basic
> comm sizes and I'd advise not to go over 7000 RPM's
> (actually 6K for comfort).
>
> The 9" motor comms move up in size and can be as large
> as some 11" comms so these two sizes can be classed
> together with a ceiling of 5000 RPM's.
>
> Waylands 8" motors were tached at running 6500 last
> month and haven't blown yet but he's getting close to
> his upper limit.  FWIW it's much better to keep the
> RPM's in the sweetspot than to top out the RPM's.
>
> There are many factors that can determine a DC motors
> RPM's limit with one being how hot the comm is at the
> time of the RPM limit.  Personal experiences will vary
> and is why I try to advise using the lowest safe RPM
> limiting that one can afford to use.  DC motors are
> not the perfect motor but they are affordable and
> there are many many EV's running them so my job is to
> help keep them running with the best advise I can
> offer from what I see from my end.  
>
> If I EVer win the lottery I'll blow a few motors up
> for you hows that sound?  Hell I'll take video!  Until
> then all I can do is work with the racers as they are
> the ones pushing the limits and where much of the data
> comes from.  BTW just because someone says or gets
> 7000 RPM's don't mean you won't blow yours at 6500
> RPM's as there is no way to make EVery comm to be
> exactly the same without huge costs being involved,
> and is not the nature of these factory made units.
>
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>        
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Got a little couch potato? 
> Check out fun summer activities for kids.
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
>  
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>   



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:21:53 -0700
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] 10th S10 outing & NEDRA 10th Anniversary Races
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello to Dennis and All,

It is great to hear this new kind of story coming out of Dennis! 

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>After 9 easy short runs around the block ect. I covered 21 miles this morning 
>with a couple of hard takeoffs. I think she has at least a 25 mile range 
>without hurting the batteries.
>

Isn't it fun, to drive a high powered EV on the streets?

>It seems wereever I go it takes me longer do to the 
>folks that want to ck it out....Dennis Berube with a large ev grin.  
>  
>


You know, I've always said you needed to get out more :-)  Dennis, 
welcome to the brotherhood of street legal hi pro EVs!
I predict you'll get far more interest in your street legal hi powered 
pickup, than you do with your rail...trust me, I know I'm right!
I also predict that this is a win for all EVers, that is, having you 
roaming the streets with a Berube-powered EV, in that we will be treated 
to a lot more of this kind of entertaining and heart-warming tale by Mr. 
Kilowatt!

Is there 'any' way you can have it up here for our 10th anniversary 
races? This isn't just 'any' NEDRA race...there will only be one 10th 
anniversary race! The media swarm is already forming, and if Lawless 
comes with his EVs, along with my car and Michael Kadie's Cobra replica 
hot rod, plus 'anything' from Father Time and Dave Cloud, we'll have a 
heavy-hitting group of EVs! It's been a long time since we've had your 
presence at a NEDRA EVent...I think I speak for everyone that this is 
the ideal reunion EVent.

I also want to encourage all with somewhat lower powered EVs to come and 
race with us. When Rick Barnes raced that stock Datsun 1200 gasser, it 
was a perfect example to show the race fans both how far we've come in 
hi performance (White Zombie 1200), and more importantly, how without 
sponsorship help and just a lot of back yard ingenuity, one can put 
together a fun electric eco-car and match the performance of its gas 
powered counterpart. Sure, it's the really quick EVs that get all the 
attention, but we need to have sheer numbers of EVs at this race to show 
the world it's more than a couple of ampheads that are jazzed about 
driving electric. If you don't want to race or your EV may not pass tech 
inspection, at least bring them to the track for show & tell. One of the 
most popular EVs at the Wayland Invitational III, was Myles' cool 
vintage Millburn. Let's get as many EVs to the track as we can!

Dennis, keep having fun, and please, write more street tales for us all 
to enjoy.

See Ya......John Wayland



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NEDRA Nationals Racer/Exhibitor Head Count
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I made the 2200 mi round trip for the Wayland
Invitational and didn't even get to unload my vehicle
as I had shorted out something on the long tow up
there (disconnect the batteries before you tow your
electric over a 1000 mi) but I have made repairs and
am planing on making the trek again just to support
our hobby that is fast becoming something of a
grassroots movement on steroids even though it costs
$1000 just to attend it is worth to see the electrics
actually running in real races.  It is important that
as many of us as possible make it to our big EVents. 
Someday I may even be able to drive down the race
track.
kEVs


--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Hi Folks
> 
> Though I have used the words_unprecedented interest_
> to describe the current 
> media frenzy surrounding the NEDRA 10th Anniversary
> Nationals in the press 
> release and elsewhere, the words _awesome_ and
> _unbelievable_ are more 
> appropriate.
> 
> Media organizations worldwide are contacting NEDRA
> for more info. There 
> should be at least three film crews from Europe
> there, not to mention folks 
> from many major US media outlets.
> 
> You don't have to be a hard-core drag racer to
> compete here.
> 
> These are the -run-what-you-brung- nights at PIR.
> The NHRA "Late Night 
> Drags".
> NEDRA racers go head-to-head with all the other drag
> racers.
> 
> There are kids running mom's station wagon down the
> dragstrip there.
> 
> Of course, and it goes without saying, that
> well-performing EVs are more 
> desirable, but everyone is more than welcome and
> encouraged to compete. (See 
> the rules at www.nedra.com, most conversion EVs with
> a well-secured battery 
> pack should be OK, the only real add-on might be the
> required emergency 
> disconnect at the rear of the vehicle. A quick and
> easy fix)
> 
> If you don't want to compete, please drive it or tow
> it on down there and be 
> on display right next to the charging area/media
> pit. Charging is available 
> on-site. The show-and-tell will go on all night. [$8
> spectator admission fee 
> to the track includes your vehicle]
> 
> If you intend to compete at this EVent (or have your
> EV on display) please 
> raise your hand by using your keyboard here on this
> list or by private 
> email.
> 
> Please let me know if you intend to be there with an
> EV, racing or not.
> 
> The one thing we need more than anything else is as
> many vehicles in 
> competition as possible.
> 
> There are prizes!
> 
> There is [some] prize money!
> 
> If you really want to help, join NEDRA, be a
> sponsor, or simply show up as 
> an electric vehicle enthusiast/spectator.
> 
> (You must be a NEDRA member to get a NEDRA record or
> prizes. Otherwise... 
> any vehicle that passes tech inspection can run)
> 
> Please hammer those vehicles together and get 'em
> there.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Roy LeMeur
> NEDRA Northwest Regional Director
> www.nedra.com
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> See what you?re getting into?before you go there 
>
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, 
photos & more. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:42:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] looking for Auburn info
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
        <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  I am looking for info on the Auburn Grizzley
Dave Luis
Others



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car 
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 10:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] motor woes
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

dear Jim;

i'm still have very little understanding of how motors
work so forgive any foolishness i ask:  i've hear bit
about improving series motors but can a PM motor be
improved [e.g. etek, pmg132]?

i would like a bit more performance if possible, but
i'm more concerned about safety.  i worry about my
motors overheating, parts falling out and locking up
on my direct drive motorcycle. is there any thing that
can be done to these motors?

BTW, this is a discussion currently on the EM
list-serve, so if you don't mind i would like to
forward your response there as well.

thank you
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> --- "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >   Got my motor back from a local shop.  I took it
> in
> > because of a
> > persistent 56-120 volt short to the body of my
> car. 
> > Got it back and
> > got the short back also.  Turns out the guy at the
> > shop is just a
> > trained monkey.  Knows nothing about DC motors
> just
> > cleans em and
> > paints them and sends them back.  Now I am out 340
> > dollars, and my
> > wife is telling me we are gonna be tight for cash
> > for a while.
> >   Long story short, I sent an e-mail to Jim Husted
> > and he said send
> > it, we can work something out.  How cool is that. 
> > If I had just spent
> > the 50 or so bucks shipping. To have Jim do the
> job
> > right, I would be
> > driving an electric car by now.  I have raided my
> > change jar and I
> > will get that damn motor to him.  I see lots of
> > overtime in my future.
> > 
> > Send your motors to Jim.  Get it done right and
> > pretty the first time.
> > I plan on bragging about having a Husted motor!
> 
> Hey Matt, all
> 
> I was going through old posts yesterday and came
> across one where I posted that I've learned how to
> build motors, by learning how not to build them 8^)
> With just one moving part you'd think they would
> always be straight forward!  I've trained about a
> hundred guys over the years but I couldn't begin to
> tell you how many motors they had to take apart
> again
> cause they didn't do something right and the motor
> didn't test!  I think my biggest factor in this is I
> hate rework and honestly after I've built it I don't
> EVer want to see it again 8^P  
> 
> Your story is a prime example of why people often
> consider rebuilt items to be inferior to a new unit.
> 
> EVen though I'm the owner of my own shop I do have
> higher ups to deal with (AKA wife and daughter) lol.
> The wife is the one who gave me approval for a
> little
> leeway and my daughter was delighted I was building
> a
> motor for Picachu, LMAO!!!  Of course, we are all
> self
> serving and I'll get to get my eyes on an MTC and
> post
> an MTC 101 at the site 8^)  Like I told Matt, I'll
> call this album "Hack vs Husted" hehe 8^o and should
> make some interesting before and after pics 8^)
> 
> Anyway EVery once in a while I can do a little
> something nice and it kind of makes up for being the
> EVil twin here at the list 8^)  As someone who comes
> from an average earnings family I can only imagine
> the
> burden this has put on yours.  Hopefully we'll find
> the ground in the coils where I can re-wrap them and
> not have to occur any hard parts costs and get
> Picachu
> up and running without further issue.
> 
> In general, I know not EVeryone can or will send a
> motor up to the boonies of Oregon for me to work on
> so
> I try to throw a little extra love on them for those
> who do 8^)
> 
> BTW when you get this motor back you'll have to
> change
> the motor section data from Hi-Pains Electric (oops
> forgot the L) to Hi-Torque Electric at the EV photo
> album 8^P
> 
> Let me know when you get it shipped.
> 
> Jim Husted
> Hi=Torque Electric
> 
> 
>        
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and
> hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 


Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the 
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 10:53:50 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] KillaCycle in Wikipedia
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Apparently, someone was motivated enough to put the KillaCycle in Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killacycle

        While I do consider it a great honor that someone would take the 
time to write up and submit the KillaCycle article, there are 5.3 
million other articles in Wikipedia, so I'll try to not let it go to 
my head. :-)

        Bill Dube'



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 11:24:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Some info at my site I put up / was Advancing
        Motor   Brushes?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


--- Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> thanks I appreciate it.

Hey Dan

I enjoyed the nicely worded question and response 8^)

> I understand you can't just waste a perfectly good
> motor. maybe it 
> happened by accident once :)

It has indeed, several times in fact! but always with
the end user, and most of those were from people
without tach's which would have told them that the
motor was at it's limits.  With that said, they are
not usually able to say at what RPM's the motor comm
exploded.  Many of the others were do to missed shifts
or the like on motors without a limiter 8^(  

Another cause is from data being falsely stated (7000
for an ADC 9 as an example).

> I saw in your album that you got a lot of used
> motors once. if any of 
> those might be scrapped would it be possible to spin
> that to breaking 
> point? just a thought

I still do ;^) just no time or cash to build them all
up 8^P
Dan the airplane man (my shop neighbor) has suggested
this to me as well as he's all about EV's these days
and we talk EV's often.  The first issue is EVen the
small guys are built up for go-cart, motorcycle, and
many of the NEDRA raffle motors I've done.  To ruin
these would prevent someone starting their EV journey
with a small project and becoming another doer as they
obtain their first EV grin 8^)

In huge ways it wouldn't give fruitful info anyway to
most EVer's as these motors are of a shorter 4 brushed
comm type.  Where as the longer and larger EV rated
motors have a longer 8 brushed comm which I feel will
have a different characteristics to it.
 
> I get the impression you see the limiting factor as
> the commutators? I 
> thought maybe there were structural issues with the
> rotor coming apart 
> but that's not the issue?

Actually I've seen a few armatures where the comm
stayed intact but the back knuckle windings blew out
due to RPM's.  This is why I like to beef up the
armature banding of the windings as it's not just the
comm that is subject to forces!  All armatures are
subject to the quality control of the guy doing the
banding and there is a wide difference in the amount
and width of banding on the armatures as they come out
of the factory and or shop.  Mike Willmons Warp 9's
are an example and if you look at the pics you can see
there is a difference in the material between these
two otherwise same armatures.

Being I didn't want to throw off Mikes very nicely
balanced armatures I used Kevlar to beef them up as
it's much lighter than the strand fiberglass typically
used by winding shops.  This was my first winding
banded Kevlar job so I guess we'll see how it goes 8^o

As someone who has his fingers into a lot of pies
ranging from go-carts to the fastest EV's out there I
hunger for data far more than you do, I'm sure.  I
must also choose my battles though, and feel helping
someone get their first EV grin outways the need to
acquire data as it really would take several motors to
get any concrete, reliable information.  To be honest
it would be kind of fun to do blow up a motor.  Alas
it feels like I'd violate some kind of motor / doctor
obligations and would probably throw me into a deep
depression lasting weeks, LMAO.

Someday soon people like Jay Donnaways Gamera9
motor(Lot's of gadgets on his motor) and Waylands big
13" interpoled (with a variable brush ring)Yellow
Beast, even Doug Weathers static adjustable brush
ring,  and Lawrences Rhodes input on a little Yale
motor I have several cores of) will EVentually get up
and running and we'll get some good real world data on
things, but for now I must remain long suffering 8^(

As people like Victor offer people better data
instrumentation, data collection will become easier to
obtain as we all try and write down the does and don't
of how to build an EV.  In general for now it's all a
big crap shoot 8^o

I stand by my statements that these motors are like a
good sled dog.  They'll give you all they got but if
pushed to hard or abused they'll die doing it for you!
There are really very few instances where motors fail
due to parts or workmanship.  Almost all are the
results of issues beyond the motors control with the
two biggest being a Miss-sizing of the motor or a
motor being run without the safety of a rev-limiter. 
The third most popular being people who just love to
blow stuff up (AKA the race guys) 8^o

Hope this sheds some insight as to how I see things,
the direction and course that I'm sailing, and as to
why "again" their is just no easy answer to questions
of this nature when dealing with EV parts.  It's just
to new and for us (what's been termed EV hobbyist's)
there are far to few dollars as well as far to short
of days to complete the task at hand as compared to
info and data on ICE driven vehicles and components.

Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car 
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 11:44:28 -0700
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Video of 914 AC kit from ElectroAuto
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"

That's just a byproduct of AC systems?  It seems awfully loud.

-----Original Message-----
>Is that high pitched noise the brakes or something else?
That'd be the carrier frequency of the AC inverter. An AC inverter generates
three low frequency (0-500 Hz) sine waves but it does it by pulse-width
modulating a carrier frequency of somewhere between 5,000 and 20,000 Hz.
Well, it's not strictly just PWM - many modern controllers use SVM which is
essentially centre-aligned PWM on the three outputs of the inverter - but
basically the effect is the same. Lower frequencies are more efficient
(switching and magnetic losses) but more audible.




------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2007 13:27:15 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lose the spare tire?
To: EV list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Greg Owen wrote:
 > I appreciate you taking the time to chew the fat on these things
 > on-list. 8)

Oops! I finally realized that I was replying to the EVDL, and not Greg 
Owen alone. Sorry, folks! Hope it wasn't too far off-topic!
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
-- 
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

End of EV Digest, Vol 1, Issue 10
*********************************

Reply via email to