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Today's Topics:

   1. Parrallel Lead Acids (Fizzy Electricity)
   2. Anyone live near Harvey, Illinois? (Roderick Wilde)
   3. Re: Modified alternator for use in EV (Jeff Shanab)
   4. Re: Better Emergency Brake (Gerald Wagner)
   5. Re: Motor Idea (Jeff Shanab)
   6. Re: Modified alternator for use in EV (Jeff Shanab)
   7. Re: Warcharging (keith vansickle)
   8. Re: S10 now with 161 miles and 1 mile on the strip
      ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   9. Re: Motor coupler issues (Eduardo Kaftanski)
  10. Re: Paging John Wayland..............Plazma
      Boy.......................... (Bill Dube)
  11. Re: Better Emergency BrakeRe:  Better Emergency Brake
      (Marty Hewes)
  12. Re: Plug-in Prius (Jeff Shanab)
  13. Re: Plug-in Prius (Jeff Shanab)
  14. Re: Motor Idea (Jeff Shanab)
  15. Re: Motor coupler issues (Marty Hewes)
  16. Help needed with my Geo Metro (mike golub)
  17. Re: Paging John Wayland..............Plazma
      Boy.......................... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  18. Help needed with my Geo Metro (mike golub)
  19. Re: Motor coupler issues (George Swartz)
  20. Re: Modified alternator for use in EV ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  21. Re: Motor coupler issues (Marty Hewes)
  22. Re: You Tube Battery revival guy. (Lee Hart)
  23. Re: Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford. (Lee Hart)
  24. Re: You Tube Battery revival guy. (Roland Wiench)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:14:23 +0000
From: "Fizzy Electricity" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Parrallel Lead Acids
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Hi,
Questions for you folks:
If there were 9 Lead acid 12V batteries connected in 3 lots of 3, to give 
36V, with 3 parallel connections.... would these 3 parallel connections need 
monitoring,  that is to say, each bank of 3 batteries have an individual 
condition check. Is this possible ?

Also, what is the purpose of insulating/padding the batteries against the 
inside of the battery box/tray ?

Has anyone used a hydraulic motor to power a single rear wheel, and have the 
batteries and motor power a hydraulic pump ?

Thanks
Grant Clinch

_________________________________________________________________
Got a favourite clothes shop, bar or restaurant? Share your local knowledge  
http://www.backofmyhand.com



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:13:10 -0700
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Anyone live near Harvey, Illinois?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Please contact me off list if you live near there.

Roderick Wilde,  President,  EV Parts Inc.
         Your Online EV Superstore
               www.evparts.com
                1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270  Fax: 360-582-1272
        PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:20:58 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Modified alternator for use in EV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I can't believe I did that. "error detected between user and keyboard"

I tried to determine how much if at all the civic hybrids one may be. I
think 15kw and weather this is an absolute max or if we can push it by
running a higher rpm for example. Perhaps combining it with a modified
outboard motor in a gen trailer as they have strict emmision standards
on them.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:22:17 -0500
From: "Gerald Wagner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I have had an idea since I converted my '94 S-10 with the T-5 transmission
Maybe someone with trans knowledge can tell me if it is possible..

Since I don't use first gear at all, could a trans shop make first into a
"Park" gear.  ie. disconnect it from the drive gears and then lock it from
rotating.  I have retained the clutch so I could just put in first when I
park it.  Maybe lock out the 12 volt signal to the hairball when in "park".

Any thoughts?   Jerry

On 8/11/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In my "ultimate" design, on the gear reducer is an adapted parking pawl.
> The parking pawl was created to handle this exact problem.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:28:18 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The idea I have is based on fitting either in the exact location up
front of the main transmission body of an N-body or similar mid size
sedan. Or fro example, dropping in place of the rear axle tube a motor
with rear independent suspension leaving room in front for a battery box
on a small pickup, or replacing the dead axle setup in a front wheel
drive for an aftermarket hybrid.

The 90 degree arrangement takes up a lot of space, but if someone wanted
to just use the motor with the single reduction to a tailshaft like the
transwarp, i was planning on offering that to.

Once I have a hollow shaft motor, they can be stacked or adapted much
easier. A keyed shaft is for constant rpm belt pulleys.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:29:16 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Modified alternator for use in EV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I was talking about using it as an alternator. Not controller needed!



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Warcharging
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I don;'t agree with war charging either but I have
Oppotunity charged at many business in my town.  just
ask most are happy to let you charge and it also works
as EVangilism. every one is interested in your EV if
you let them know about it. many even want to drive it
and some have even been converted.

But stealing is stealing and no one likes a theif.


--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I disagree with the idea of war charging as we EV'rs
> have an image to
> protect. I even don't like asking unless it is a
> business arrangement
> where I pay for it.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



      
____________________________________________________________________________________
Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:39:25 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 now with 161 miles and 1 mile on the strip
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Took the s10 street/drag truck out to Firebird last nite.They are an EV 
friendly track giving me a 30 amp 110 volt charging plug. Next week I will 
bring 
out a 220 plug/cord to charge. Tech inspection went great with only 2 small 
problems, the steering shaft has to be drilled and the crouch strap has to be 
attached to the back bar holding the seat in. The tech inspectors said I outdid 
myself this time. The truck started out with 94 degree F batteries and a motor 
field temp of 103. Ambient temp 105. Motor amps 1400 motor volts 150, battery 
amps 500, battery volts 240.  The 1st run I tried out the lineloc and you could 
not see the truck after the 1st second of the burnout it buried the entire 
area around the burnout area to past the starting line and filled the truck cab 
where I could hardly see out all the way down the track. I held the pedal down 
to about 900 feet on the 1st pass and ran 84mph at 14.51. The truck did not 
seem to vibrate at all so I took it out a 2nd time at the same settings and 
made a full pass this time 14.24 at 84mph checked the motor than added a 
hundred 
battery amps and 150 motor amps she responded well with a 14.02 at 91mph.For 
the last run another 150 motor amps and motor volts of 180 battery amps 750 and 
battery volts 210.I ended the night with a 13.48 at 95.89mph.The battery temp 
was 118 motor field temp121 ambient 94. No sign of arcing on this 24/36 volt 
forklift motor. After I loaded the truck(15min after last run) the battery ocv 
was 12.861 to 12.878. There was never any vibration the entire night. The 
tires (drag radials) were set at 14lbs way to low. The coils on the shocks need 
to be heaver due to the coil bind on every run. There was quite a lot of off 
the line tire spin on the last run off the line. All and all not a bad shake 
down night. I will go to the track with warmer batteries and proper coil 
springs 
next week weather permiting.Maybe it will do a little better. I am having so 
much fun with this new toy, I kinda feel sorry for the dragster all alone in 
its trailer but she will be back out for the et finals in Vegas before I know 
it.   


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:39:50 -0400
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Here's an area I know nothing about....
> 
> Will there really be 500ftlbs on the coupler
> BETWEEEN the motors?
> 
> If one arm is producing 500 ft-lbs AND the other arm
> is producing 500 ft-lbs, the coupler will see ZERO
> won't it? 


If both motors are identical, wired exactly the same and connected
in series:

The coupler between the transmission and the first motor will see 1000ft/l
The coupler between the motors will see 500ft/l



-- 
Eduardo K.            | 
http://www.carfun.cl  | Freedom's just another word
http://ev.nn.cl       | for nothing left to lose.
                      |     



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:43:08 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Paging John Wayland..............Plazma
        Boy..........................
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

The rear suspension does not move the differential perfectly up and 
down. It tilts just a bit, especially with leaf springs under severe 
acceleration. Thus, you will get some vibration at times. It is 
unavoidable with typical rear suspensions. (You can build a 
suspension that works correctly.) Thus, you set up the angles to 
minimize the vibration under typical driving conditions.

Bill Dube'

At 07:58 PM 8/10/2007, you wrote:
>In a message dated 8/10/2007 4:21:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] write
>
>
>The motor shaft and the pinion shaft _must_ be parallel when
>you  are driving the car. They don't have to be coaxial, but they
>_must_ be  parallel within a couple of degrees. This is both
>up-and-down as well as  side-to-side.
>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Bingo Bill, you have the right answer, I thought you only knew how to make
>bikes go fast, however one slight error. The two shaft centerlines should  be
>parallel ALL the time when viewed from the top and the side.
>
>Jim Ludiker.................still the quickest EV behind
>Dennis..............for seven years.
>
>
>
>
>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:40:43 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency BrakeRe:  Better Emergency Brake
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

That's the way they work on my 1982 Camaro, a lever operating a screw 
through the piston. Earlier Corvettes actually had a small brake drum with 
shoes in the center of the rear rotors.  My 1974 Lotus has independant rear 
suspension with inboard drum brakes, I heard they used drums because they 
were having a hard time getting rear discs to meet emergency brake 
requirements at the time.

Remember that drum brakes require less input because the turning force pulls 
the shoes into the drum, causing some inherent boost.  Discs don't, which is 
why power brakes are more necessary with discs, and one reason why disc/drum 
systems need proportioning valves to reduce pressure to the drums.  That 
self boosting property helps the drum type emergency brakes.

Regarding lockers and limited slips, with the clutch type Posi in my Camaro, 
I can lift one tire, while in neutral with the emergency brake off, and 
change the tire relying on nothing but the Posi clutches to keep it from 
turning.  In one instance I had parked on ground so uneven that one rear 
tire was an inch off the ground (very stiff autocross suspension).  The 
other tire had no problem driving me away.  These are relatively common 
clutch type limited slips in American cars, typically identified by a metal 
tag hanging off the axle that says something like "Posi-traction fluid only" 
on it, because they require a posi additive to keep the clutches from 
chattering.  They do lose effectiveness as the clutches wear though.  I've 
had to replace the clutches in the limited slips in my Jeep and my Explorer 
at around 100,000 miles.  I put a Lock-Rite locker in my Bronco II.  It was 
a true ratcheting locker.  It didn't lock unless their was significant 
torque on the drive shaft, then it locked both rear axles together.  It had 
no differential spider gears, until it locked, it drove one rear wheel or 
the other.  Pretty squirrley on a short, light vehicle, but good off road. 
You could lift one wheel and spin it with both the other tire and drive 
shaft not turning.  These are not common from the factory in American cars 
or light duty trucks.

Marty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency BrakeRe: Better Emergency Brake


> Are there different types, this is my first car with disk brakes in
> back. The nissan 300zx caliper has a 1/4 turn jack screw through the
> piston. Same piston that the hydraulic works on.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 




------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:50:36 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plug-in Prius
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The other thing to do would be to switch our measureing system to
emmisions per mile in stead of parts per million.



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:55:24 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plug-in Prius
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I have seen this tactic from Toyota over and over again. They tend to
discount or almost discourage then come out with something in full qty,
a major release. As contrast with GM who plays it up then ussually half
ass releases. I am waiting to see if they try the "americans are to dumb
to handle a plug in and need a lease" tactic on the volt.



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:02:03 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I think there is no problem on the lube. The ring pulls the oil up and
crams it between the pinion teeth. which is where most the lube is
needed. Enough will fly into the front pinion bearing for sure it really
flys around in there wasting a huge amount of energy :-(

In the long run it might be good to have some kind of external sump and
a pump the lubes the bearings thru galleys and sprays oil at the mesh.
Race transmissions to this. Automatics do this to a lesser degree



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:02:17 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Do you suppose motor coupler failures are more common on cars without a 
trans?  With an overall gear reduction of 10 to 1 in first gear (trans and 
axle), the motor will only see 10% of the torque the axles see (compared to 
roughly 33% of it with only an axle).  I won't attempt to figure out what 
the maximum torque would be at the axle before the tire spins, but only 10% 
of it would get back to the coupler in this case.  I suppose once you hit 1 
to 1 in the trans, you'd be back to the roughly 33% number, but how many of 
us will be producing full motor current and torque once the motor RPMs are 
coming up?  Sounds like if you are running a trans, attempting to pass a 
truck on the freeway in top gear is where the coupler is heavily loaded, not 
during a tire smoking launch in first.  Am I on track here?

Marty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues


> Please keep in mind that launching a 4000lb beast at 1/2G (paltry) is
> the same amount of torque at the motor as launching a 2000lb dragster at
> 1G(slow dragster, but you get the point)
>
> F=MA: 4000lb*16ft/sec  = 2000lb*32ft/sec
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 




------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:16:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

HELLO


http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:20:22 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Paging John Wayland..............Plazma
        Boy..........................
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 8/11/2007 8:47:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
> To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet: 
> 
> 
> 
> The rear suspension does not move the differential perfectly up and 
> down. It tilts just a bit, especially with leaf springs under severe 
> acceleration. Thus, you will get some vibration at times. It is 
> unavoidable with typical rear suspensions. (You can build a 
> suspension that works correctly.) Thus, you set up the angles to 
> minimize the vibration under typical driving conditions.
> 
> Bill Dube'
> 
Hi Bill,The S10 has a coil over ladder rear fully adjustable suspension.With 
all the excitement of driving this new truck maybe I missed the vibration but 
I will listen more close next time down the track. Dennis Berube   


------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

HELLO

I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:

http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion

Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no flywheel...a
direct connection to the transmission.

I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature through
the controller, and separate 24volts directly to the
field.

I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it blew,
so I removed a relay and connected through a 30 amp
fuse.

I then started the car, and I really did see that much
difference.

I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I never
found those improved coil springs for the geo
metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200 lbs
in the rear.

thanks in advance,

Michael Golub



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 09:29:00 -0700
From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=iso-8859-1

The motor armature and associated drivetrain constitute a second order 
ocillatory mechanical system.  The armature has a high moment of inertia and 
is coupled via a "spring" which is the drive train.  Any step applications 
of torque will cause torque overshoot, up to a doubling of the intended 
torque.  This factor has always caused high stresses in electric motor 
propulsion and has led to surprise failures of couplings, drive shafts, 
motor mounts, etc, when this is overlooked.  

You may say that step torque applications don't occur in well designed 
electric propulsion, but spinning tires on a crosswalk stipe, and then 
hitting good pavement is an example.  

Also, drive train components do not necessarily break right away, but can 
fatigue slowly and weaken, eventually breaking.








On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:02:17 -0500, Marty Hewes wrote
> Do you suppose motor coupler failures are more common on cars 
> without a trans?  With an overall gear reduction of 10 to 1 in first 
> gear (trans and axle), the motor will only see 10% of the torque the 
> axles see (compared to roughly 33% of it with only an axle).  I 
> won't attempt to figure out what the maximum torque would be at the 
> axle before the tire spins, but only 10% of it would get back to the 
> coupler in this case.  I suppose once you hit 1 to 1 in the trans, 
> you'd be back to the roughly 33% number, but how many of us will be 
> producing full motor current and torque once the motor RPMs are 
> coming up?  Sounds like if you are running a trans, attempting to 
> pass a truck on the freeway in top gear is where the coupler is 
> heavily loaded, not during a tire smoking launch in first.  Am I on 
> track here?
> 
> Marty
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues
> 
> > Please keep in mind that launching a 4000lb beast at 1/2G (paltry) is
> > the same amount of torque at the motor as launching a 2000lb dragster at
> > 1G(slow dragster, but you get the point)
> >
> > F=MA: 4000lb*16ft/sec  = 2000lb*32ft/sec
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:32:04 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Modified alternator for use in EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I tried to determine how much if at all the civic hybrids one may be.
> I think 15kw and weather this is an absolute max or if we can push it
> by running a higher rpm for example. Perhaps combining it with a
> modified outboard motor in a gen trailer as they have strict emmision
> standards on them.

It seems to vary, and I don't see specifications clearly stated anywhere 
online.   Any Honda mechanics on-list?

Insight Central says that the Insight has a 10 kW permanent magnet DC 
brushless motor: http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/enspecs.html.

Wikipedia says the 1st generation Civic hybrid has a 15 kW (20 hp) 
brushless, permanent magnet assist motor.  It notes that the 2nd gen 
Civic has 4th generation IMA, but doesn't give specs. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Hybrid.

Honda's site seems to agree, saying the 2007 Civic has a "20 hp / 76 
lb.-ft." motor at 
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/specifications.aspx?group=all.

The permanent magnets are on the rotor and the windings are on the 
stator, which, as I understand it, would make it more tolerant of higher 
RPM.  Please, correct me if I'm wrong.



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:25:40 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Interesting.  So what you're saying is that due to elasticity in the drive 
system, the drivetrain can wind up, resulting in maybe twice the normal 
torque load if, for example, the tires slip, then stick?  Seems to make 
sense logically.  How does this impact the idea of using a rubber donut in 
the driveshaft, or a spring equipped clutch hub, or even higher profile 
tires to absorb shocks?  Sounds like it may actually make the torque peaks 
higher by maybe reducing resonant frequency and allowing more wind-up 
amplitude, or does it just change the frequency of oscillation?  Would 
increasing frequency or stiffness push the shock energy back to the contact 
patch and battery instead of storing and releasing it, or does the shock 
wave do a fixed end reflection when it hits the momentum of the armature and 
oscillate until something dampens it out anyway?  What is the implication to 
the drivetrain design?  I suppose the answer is complex.

Marty
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor coupler issues


> The motor armature and associated drivetrain constitute a second order
> ocillatory mechanical system.  The armature has a high moment of inertia 
> and
> is coupled via a "spring" which is the drive train.  Any step applications
> of torque will cause torque overshoot, up to a doubling of the intended
> torque.  This factor has always caused high stresses in electric motor
> propulsion and has led to surprise failures of couplings, drive shafts,
> motor mounts, etc, when this is overlooked.
>
> You may say that step torque applications don't occur in well designed
> electric propulsion, but spinning tires on a crosswalk stipe, and then
> hitting good pavement is an example.
>
> Also, drive train components do not necessarily break right away, but can
> fatigue slowly and weaken, eventually breaking.




------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:52:24 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] You Tube Battery revival guy.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

> I've read that the "Nanopulser" (easily found via Google) is a device
> that supposedly shakes off the sulfates (or much of them) on cells
> that aren't otherwise damaged, and revives the battery of much of
> it's capacity.
> 
> Anyone in the group had any experience with it or have heard much
> about it anecdotally?

I am *very* skeptical of all of the magic miracle battery rejevator
schemes. I've tested a bunch of them, and none of them produce any more
benefit than simple cleaning, watering, and properly charge/discharge
cycling the battery alone won't accomplish.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:06:54 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Looking for a Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

isaaks wrote:
> I have a 1929 Ford coupe that is looking for an engine.  You can see it at  

What an interesting project!

As you probably know, Roderick Wilde did a similar vintage car EV 
conversion. It turned out pretty nicely.

I've had an idea in the back of my mind. Nowdays, many people have no 
idea what "all that stuff" under the hood of a car is for. They don't 
know a contactor from a coil, a carburetor from a controller, or an 
electric motor from a transmission.

So, what if you built an engine-shaped thing that looked sort of like an 
ICE, but was really made from an electric motor, batteries, controller, 
and related bits? Make it pretty; all chrome and bright colors. For 
instance, the electric motor sits where the crankshaft is, the "heads" 
are rows of batteries, the controller sits on top like an intake 
manifold, etc. All the usual accessories (alternator, water pump, power 
steering) are belt driven as usual. The radiator is really just the A/C 
condenser. And so on...

There would be more batteries in place of the gas tank, spare tire 
location, or other out-of-sight places. So at a casual glance, it looks 
like an ICE to the untrained eye. But a gearhead will recognize that 
something is seriously odd!
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:21:26 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] You Tube Battery revival guy.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

I met a old geezer a old guy at a caf? that it was his job to shake standby 
power batteries.  If you let batteries set only on float charge or 
maintainers, the heavy acid will go to the bottom of the cell and the weaker 
solution goes to the top.

He said, driving over the rough roads we have here, will do the job in a EV. 
Here they press in color rocks into the asphalt which gives you a rumble 
type of ride.

They also had cadmium electrolyte lead acid batteries made by Exide that the 
electrolyte color was a purple color you can see through the clear cells. He 
said, these type of batteries has a 12 year warranty on them and many of 
them went over that with out any internal maintenance.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] You Tube Battery revival guy.


> > I've read that the "Nanopulser" (easily found via Google) is a device
> > that supposedly shakes off the sulfates (or much of them) on cells
> > that aren't otherwise damaged, and revives the battery of much of
> > it's capacity.
> >
> > Anyone in the group had any experience with it or have heard much
> > about it anecdotally?
>
> I am *very* skeptical of all of the magic miracle battery rejevator
> schemes. I've tested a bunch of them, and none of them produce any more
> benefit than simple cleaning, watering, and properly charge/discharge
> cycling the battery alone won't accomplish.
>
> -- 
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

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