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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries (Osmo S.)
   2. Re: Help needed with my Geo Metro (Jeff Major)
   3. Re: crud on battery caps (Lee Hart)
   4. Re: Motor Idea (Lee Hart)
   5. Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses (Jeff Major)
   6. Re: Motor Idea (Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
   7. TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV (jerryd)
   8. Re: Better Emergency Brake (Dave Cover)
   9. No AGNS or OJ at PIR ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  10. Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses (jerryd)
  11. Re: LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries
      (Timothy Balcer)
  12. Re: Martin Eberhard: No longer CEO of Tesla Motors!!!
      (Timothy Balcer)
  13. Re: Help needed with my Geo Metro (David Roden)
  14. Re: Help needed with my Geo Metro (mike golub)
  15. Re: Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses (David Roden)
  16. Re: Martin Eberhard: No longer CEO of Tesla Motors!!!
      (Glenn Saunders)
  17. Re: TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV (John G. Lussmyer)
  18. Re: No AGNS or OJ at PIR ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  19. Re: Help needed with my Geo Metro (Michael Barkley)
  20. Re: Motor Idea (Jeff Major)
  21. Currie Technologies (JS)
  22. Re: Help needed with my Geo Metro (Jeff Major)
  23. Re: Motor Idea (Tim Humphrey)
  24. Re: Motor Idea (Marty Hewes)
  25. Re: Alask Renewable Energy Fair (Tehben Dean)
  26. Re: Real HP in an EV ? (Joseph T. )
  27. Re: TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV (Sam Maynard)
  28. Re: TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV (damon henry)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:15:46 +0300
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
        format=flowed

This is the answer I got from their european branch Gaia last February:

"A single cell HE602050 with 60Ah each costs today 350,00? per cell.   
80 cells will cost about 28.000,00?. Additional costs must be  
calculated for the electronic BMS, the battery assembly, some  
hardware, a battery container (e.g. stainless steel), ground fault  
detection, circuit breakers, etc., which can sum up to additional  
25.000,00?. In total a price of about 50 to 55 thousand ? must be  
expected."

terveisin,
Osmo


Joe Plumer kirjoitti 13.8.2007 kello 15.29:

> About a year ago I spoke with them about a solution.  It would have  
> been a
> great solution
> and included the BMS and used their HE-602050 cells.  My specs were  
> for a
> 67Kwh pack
> and ended up around $97k.  Way more than I expected.  This was for  
> a one
> off, but the
> price dropped considerably when ordering in quantity.
>
> If you want I can look up my contact there and forward it on.  I do  
> remember
> that it took
> about 2-3 weeks to get my initial response from the company, but  
> after that
> they were very
> responsive and helpful.
>
> Joe
>
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Has anyone been able to get pricing information from LTC? I've had no
>> response and am going to go to voice next, but I wanted to know if I
>> was duplicating effort.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> http://www.lithiumtech.com
>>
>> --T
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 06:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


Hey Mike,

Michael had some problems with low starting torque.  I
was able to give him help.  I might be able to help
you out also, but need some more info.  See inserted
comments....... 


--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> HELLO
> 
> I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> 
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> 
> Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> flywheel...a
> direct connection to the transmission.
> 
> I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> through
> the controller, and separate 24volts directly to the
> field.
> 
> I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
> RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> blew,
> so I removed a relay and connected through a 30 amp
> fuse.

The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps. 
Take the resistance and let me know.

> 
> I then started the car, and I really did see that
> much
> difference.

Did or did not?  What is your problem?  Sorry if I
missed that in a previous post.  What is it doing and
what is it not doing?  

> 
> I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I never
> found those improved coil springs for the geo
> metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200
> lbs
> in the rear.

The higher pack voltage will help at higher speeds. 
If you're working at lower speeds, like acceleration
from a stop, you should be in current limit and higher
pack voltage on the armature shouldn't play a role.

> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> Michael Golub

Give me some more details and I might offer some help.

Jeff M


      
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:54:23 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] crud on battery caps
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Al wrote:
> I have a pack of Trojan T-125 floodies. I noticed when watering that
> the bottom of the cell caps have a thin coating of gray material on
> them (lead?) Is this normal or are my batteries being fried by the
> charger?

A small amount of this is normal for flooded batteries. These are 
microscopic bits of active material that were shed by the plates, and 
thrown up there by the gassing and bubbling at the end of a charge cycle.

It could be a problem if your end-of-charge current is too high; like 
more than 2% of the battery's amphour capacity. This makes the gassing 
pretty vigorous, increasing this shedding and deposition.

> Once, when the Zivan was on yellow topping up mode I read
> 157V across a 120V pack. Thats 2.6 VPC !! Is that too high?

Yes, that's a bit high. New batteries might tolerate it (US Battery 
recommends 2.58v/cell), but doing this with older ones will certainly 
lead to excessive gassing and water usage.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:00:59 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> Do Cougars and Thunderbirds come with independent rear?

Yes, the 1989-97's all have it.

> An 8.8" rear end would also be a great one to use.

Two differentials were used. Cars with V6 engines got a smaller 
8-something inch, and the V8 cars got the bigger 8.9".

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:02:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


Hey Brandon,

I was unable to pull up that article.  Who is Doug and
where did this quote come from?

I did some work on Bluebird EV and HEV buses made in
the mid 90s.  Used Westinghouse AC motors (234 hp) and
Northrup inverters.  EVs had 112 GC batteries and HEVs
had 56.  HEVs used Isuzu diesel engines.

I know where there are 5 HEVs and 4 EVs for sale
cheap.  Need some electrical work.  Low miles (very,
very low).  If anybody is sincerely interested,
contact me off list.

Jeff M

ps.  And 175 miles........NOT.


--- Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> One of the comments at the end of this article
> stated:
> "We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in
> 1994. They went 175 miles
> on a charge and had much better performance than the
> gas or diesel units
> (read, do not floor it to get get going unless you
> want to launch everyone
> and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the
> overall opperation cost
> of the ICE brethren.
> Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles
> a day.
> Doug "
> 
> 175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is
> this possible with PbA
> considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic? 
> I'd be very interested in
> seeing some numbers about the battery pack and
> Wh/mile.  Anyone converted a
> school bus?
> 
> -- 
> Brandon Kruger
> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> http://cafepress.com/altfuel <-------- EV, PHEV, &
> Alt. Fuel Merchandise
> 
> On 8/7/07, David S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
>
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybr
> > id-buses/



      
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Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel today!   
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:08:12 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

That would be a lot easier to do that's for sure.  You could get the
entire rear end assembly out of a Thunderbird.

I was thinking some kind of arrangement like this would be awesome for a
hybrid minivan.  I would love to take an axle assembly, put the minivans
brackets on it, mount it under my town and country and use the EMIS
system to drive a 9" motor.  Maybe a 120V assist.  The only problem I
see is where to mount the batteries since my van has stow and go. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 10:01
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea

Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> Do Cougars and Thunderbirds come with independent rear?

Yes, the 1989-97's all have it.

> An 8.8" rear end would also be a great one to use.

Two differentials were used. Cars with V6 engines got a smaller
8-something inch, and the V8 cars got the bigger 8.9".

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:01:14 -0500
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


          Hi All,
             Since TS won't come clean, isn't it time to set
up a website warning others about them? 2 can play the
internet game. When their actions hurt the bottom line, they
will pay attention and the internet levels the playing
field!!
             PS My computer still down.
                                       Jerry Dycus

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: New HEV and EV
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:46:51 -0700

>Jukka J=E4rvinen wrote:
>> I have no problem to talk about the TS issues. I know how
>they do things =
>
>> and it is far from western standards.
>> =
>
>> I've rolled the full case about the old cells in front of
>Winston. I =
>
>> feel a bit troubled how he reacted on the issue. The
>amount of cells =
>
>> that need changing is muuuch greater that anyone of us
>knows. I believe.
>
>That makes no difference really. Amount of money they
>basically stole is also much greater than anyone knows
>about, but that doesn't bother Winston and Co.
>
>Makes no difference if the staff, policies or whatever have
>changed since 2003 when that happened. Bottom line - I'm
>(and 10 other people) out of money and out of product we
>paid for. That fact didn't change. Everything else is cheap
>talk, true or false.
>
>> This is the reason I have always STRONGLY adviced NOT to
>buy cells =
>
>> directly from them. I test all my cells in China before
>shipping. If any =
>
>> bad I change it.
>
>Perhaps I wasn't clear. If I buy TS sells from you and you
>in turn buy them from TS for me, my money ultimately go to
>TS anyway. And I =
>
>already paid them, and they know it.
>
>So I should not buy TS product at all (and discourage
>others) (directly or through Finnish distributor, makes no
>difference) at least until one of 2 things happen:
>
>a) - They return my money (and I can return their junk
>cells,
>  of course at their expense if they want)
>b) - They fill *MY* trunk with 96 working cells *I* paid
>for.
>
>It is of course your choice how to deal with TS, but if
>you don't pressure and make them suffer, you encourage them
>to keep doing what they did. I sincerely wish your business
>to prosper, but if your sales decline because fewer people
>buy their product (through you) - you suffer through no
>fault of your own. Your own business practices are
>perfectly fine, but it's not about you now, it's about TS
>and us (me in this case). You weren't even involved in the
>initial group purchase. Your only "fault" (for the lack of
>better word) is your choice to still establish business
>with TS as if they fully deserve it as good responsible
>supplier *by customer's standards* (which they are not).
>
>I don't want to impair your business, but I want to hold TS
>responsible for theirs by spreading the word to get to
>option a) or b) (see above) as close as possible.
>Please suggest other means if you know of any.
>
>I believe you, or any their distributor, can keep insisting
>on them to rectify the situation by [partially] refusing to
>deal with them so their bottom line suffers - you have much
>more =
>
>influence and leverage than me and others who're just TS'
>end customers.
>
>You may be very right in assessment of current "changed" TS
>, but [whether we keep talking about it or quit the thread
>now], the fact remains - the trunk of my EV is still empty.
>Rub it in =
>
>Winston's face.
>
>Victor
>
>p.s. A bit recomposed copy of this email is going to
>Winston directly as well. Will see if it will have any
>effect.
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:18:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Of course, my theory goes to hell when you consider how almost any automatic 
transmission car
parks. The parking pawl is very effective at keeping a car in place even though 
there is a
downstream differential. Haven't heard of too many minivans rolling down the 
hill lately. So I
guess a single point brake, such as on the drive shaft, should work pretty good.

Dave Cover

--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Most positraction type differentials use clutches, cones, or gears to lock 
> the wheels together. 
> If you lift only one tire off the ground yes it will let it move.  The 
> differential is tuned to
> link the axle only when both wheels are going at the same speed.  Depending 
> on the model you
> select there will be different strengths at which they will "lock up."  
> Detroit locker
> differentials actually "click" when they lock and unlock.  With a pinion 
> brake you will always
> have one side that holds the car.  If one tire slips, the other will still be 
> holding.  If you
> don't like that kind of setup you can always use the cable operated calipers 
> off of a camaro or
> Imapala SS.   
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 13:27
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> 
> Don't lockup differentials rely on the power delivered to lock up. I know if 
> I have a rear wheel
> off the ground with my truck, I can spin it by hand, and it does have a 
> locking differential.
> Same with my 944. Relying on a lock up differential to hold your car doesn't 
> seem safe. And how
> many vehicles have this feature? Probably less than you think.
> 
> --- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Not necessarily.  That theory definitely holds true if the 
> > differential is an open carrier.  If it is a locker or a posi then it 
> > will hold just fine.  You also get the added benefit of a pinion brake 
> > of the multiplication the ring and pinion assembly provides.  Pinion 
> > brakes are much more powerful than a drum brake assembly.  That is why you 
> > see them used a lot
> in the monster truck world.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of Dave Cover
> > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:46
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> > 
> > Don't forget, any brake on the motor or drive shaft is not safe if 
> > there is a differential between the brake and the tires. If one wheel 
> > looses traction (resting on sand, ice, etc.) the vehicle can roll.
> > 
> > Dave Cover
> > 
> > --- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > You could have another taperlock adapter made for the front of a 
> > > motor and use a disc brake caliper setup for a lawn tractor.  They 
> > > are about 5 inches in diameter
> > and clamp using a cable.
> > > I have also seen instances where people modify a disc brake to mount 
> > > on the snout of the axle pinion and actuate with a cable.
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > On Behalf Of David Brandt
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 18:44
> > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> > > 
> > > Hi, Mark.  I think the problem is that disc calipers take a bunch of 
> > > pressure to actuate, so the parking brake cable only works so-so.  
> > > It is also this way on my Fiero.  We'll have to wait and see how well the 
> > > wilwood brakes
> John W.
> > is going to use work.
> > > 
> > > If you are looking to upgrade, check out the rear disc brakes from a 
> > > late 80's-early 90'2 daytona or laser.  They had a small drum brake 
> > > on the back just for the parking brake, and a main disc that only 
> > > activated under the hydraulic
> > pressure.
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > David Brandt
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2007 1:52:15 PM
> > > Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting 
> > > braking safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better 
> > > emergency braking.
> > > It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows 
> > > the vehicle down. 
> > > This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel Beetle with rear 
> > > disc brakes.  I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
> > > *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency 
> > > brake handle.
> > > 
> > > Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail?  
> > > Or is that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
> > > 
> > > have a renewable energy day,
> > > Mark
> > > 
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Messenger Caf? - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served 
> > > daily. 
> > > Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline
> > > 
> > > 
> > >        
> > > ____________________________________________________________________
> > > __ ______________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! 
> > > Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:33:57 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] No AGNS or OJ at PIR
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Despite a desire to the contrary I won't be bringing OJ or AGNS to 
Portland on Friday.
The 2 new motors for OJ are not yet complete but I was hoping to either 
send AGNS out with my driver or crate her up and ship LTL, fly out to 
the race, then on to Anaheim on Saturday for a parade inspection and 
meetings.  It was confirmed this morning that I need to be in Anaheim 
on BOTH Friday and Saturday. Man I really wanted to christen AGNS at 
240 volts at a NEDRA event.  As it stands now we will have to settle 
for a trip to Quaker City Raceway on Weds. night. I want to thank 
everyone for inviting us out.  On the bright side it does look like 
both vehicles may be in Colorado in the near future.  Also, OJ's 
escapades in Memphis are tenatively scheduled to air on the Speed 
Channel at 10pm Sunday night.  As soon as I receive confirmation I'll 
post it.

Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
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from AOL at AOL.com.



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:29:29 -0500
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


           Hi Jeff and All,
                 If this is in Tampa I could check it out if
someone can tell me where it is or how to get in contact
with them. We have several AVS Ev bus' in used truck lots
around here that would make great RV EV's or hybrids.

                                  Jerry Dycus

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid
buses
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:02:14 -0700 (PDT)

>Hey Brandon,
>
>I was unable to pull up that article.  Who is Doug and
>where did this quote come from?
>
>I did some work on Bluebird EV and HEV buses made in
>the mid 90s.  Used Westinghouse AC motors (234 hp) and
>Northrup inverters.  EVs had 112 GC batteries and HEVs
>had 56.  HEVs used Isuzu diesel engines.
>
>I know where there are 5 HEVs and 4 EVs for sale
>cheap.  Need some electrical work.  Low miles (very,
>very low).  If anybody is sincerely interested,
>contact me off list.
>
>Jeff M
>
>ps.  And 175 miles........NOT.
>
>
>--- Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> One of the comments at the end of this article
>> stated:
>> "We made several Blue Bird buses all electric in
>> 1994. They went 175 miles
>> on a charge and had much better performance than the
>> gas or diesel units
>> (read, do not floor it to get get going unless you
>> want to launch everyone
>> and everything not nailed down)and a fraction of the
>> overall opperation cost
>> of the ICE brethren.
>> Oh, and the overall fleet average is only 25.7 miles
>> a day.
>> Doug "
>> 
>> 175 miles range!?!?!?!!   In a school bus???  Is
>> this possible with PbA
>> considering school buses aren't very aerodynamic? 
>> I'd be very interested in
>> seeing some numbers about the battery pack and
>> Wh/mile.  Anyone converted a
>> school bus?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Brandon Kruger
>> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
>> http://cafepress.com/altfuel <-------- EV, PHEV, &
>> Alt. Fuel Merchandise
>> 
>> On 8/7/07, David S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>>
>http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/22/tampa-schools-debut-new-plug-in-hybr
>> > id-buses/
>
>
>
>     
>___________________________________________________________
>_________________________ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. 
>Join our Network Research Panel today!  
>http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:31:39 -0400
From: "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LTC - Lithium Technology Corp. Lithium batteries
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Yep I just got back a quote of $360 per cell.

Man... that is WAY too pricey.

--T



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:47:34 -0400
From: "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Martin Eberhard: No longer CEO of Tesla Motors!!!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I've watched most of the interviews that Elon Musk has done and in one
of them he commented on how he had to fight with Martin for every
feature that would cost money. :)

--T



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:53:27 -0400
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

A trick with early Rabbits when converting to EV was to double up the rear 
struts, using two stock struts per side.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator

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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 08:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I measure 2.5 Ohms in the field, so using 24 volts is
pretty far from 30 amps. Not sure why it blew the
relay, maybe the initial surge kills it, and I need to
use a contactor?

> The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps. 
> Take the resistance and let me know.



--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Hey Mike,
> 
> Michael had some problems with low starting torque. 
> I
> was able to give him help.  I might be able to help
> you out also, but need some more info.  See inserted
> comments....... 
> 
> 
> --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > HELLO
> > 
> > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> > 
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > 
> > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > flywheel...a
> > direct connection to the transmission.
> > 
> > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> > through
> > the controller, and separate 24volts directly to
> the
> > field.
> > 
> > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used a
> > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> > blew,
> > so I removed a relay and connected through a 30
> amp
> > fuse.
> 
> The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps. 
> Take the resistance and let me know.
> 
> > 
> > I then started the car, and I really did see that
> > much
> > difference.
> 
> Did or did not?  What is your problem?  Sorry if I
> missed that in a previous post.  What is it doing
> and
> what is it not doing?  
> 
> > 
> > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I
> never
> > found those improved coil springs for the geo
> > metro...so I really didn't want to add another 200
> > lbs
> > in the rear.
> 
> The higher pack voltage will help at higher speeds. 
> If you're working at lower speeds, like acceleration
> from a stop, you should be in current limit and
> higher
> pack voltage on the armature shouldn't play a role.
> 
> > 
> > thanks in advance,
> > 
> > Michael Golub
> 
> Give me some more details and I might offer some
> help.
> 
> Jeff M
> 
> 
>      
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
> Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:05:33 -0400
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tampa schools debut new plug-in hybrid buses
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 13 Aug 2007 at 7:02, Jeff Major wrote:

> Used Westinghouse AC motors (234 hp) and
> Northrup inverters.  ...
> I know where there are 5 HEVs and 4 EVs for sale cheap.  

Hmm.  I'm not a racer nor do I play one anywhere, but I wonder how that 
motor would do in a lightweight rail.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode?  See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Martin Eberhard: No longer CEO of Tesla Motors!!!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Elon obviously won all those arguments.

----- Original Message ----
I've watched most of the interviews that Elon Musk has done and in one
of them he commented on how he had to fight with Martin for every
feature that would cost money. :)








------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:51:30 -0700
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
        <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 07:01 AM 8/13/2007, jerryd wrote:
>              Since TS won't come clean, isn't it time to set
>up a website warning others about them? 2 can play the
>internet game. When their actions hurt the bottom line, they
>will pay attention and the internet levels the playing
>field!!

Take a look at  http://www.thundersky.us

Needs more info on the page though.  Anyone want to write up 
something better and more informative?

--
John G. Lussmyer      mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....         
http://www.CasaDelGato.com



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:04:54 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] No AGNS or OJ at PIR
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 8/13/2007 7:36:16 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 

Despite a desire to the contrary I won't be bringing OJ or AGNS to  
Portland on Friday.
The 2 new motors for OJ are not yet complete but I  was hoping to either 
send AGNS out with my driver or crate her up and ship  LTL, fly out to 
the race, then on to Anaheim on Saturday for a parade  inspection and 
meetings.  It was confirmed this morning that I need to  be in Anaheim 
on BOTH Friday and Saturday. Man I really wanted to christen  AGNS at 
240 volts at a NEDRA event.  As it stands now we will have to  settle 
for a trip to Quaker City Raceway on Weds. night. I want to thank  
everyone for inviting us out.  On the bright side it does look like  
both vehicles may be in Colorado in the near future.  Also, OJ's  
escapades in Memphis are tenatively scheduled to air on the Speed  
Channel at 10pm Sunday night.  As soon as I receive confirmation I'll  
post it.

Shawn Lawless
______________________________________________________
 
Shawn, I have two questions, what does OJ and AGNS stand for and when are  
you going to get here in sunny CA.?
 
The old beekeeper, racer, engineer, teacher, etc,etc,etc,
 
Jim Ludiker........still the quickest EV in the world, behind Dennis.
 
 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Mike, this is the relay that I'm using to switch on
the field voltage:

http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=11821

Was your relay something like that? I haven't measured
the current my field is pulling but, I can sometime if
you need me to.

M.Barkley
www.texomaev.com


--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I measure 2.5 Ohms in the field, so using 24 volts
> is
> pretty far from 30 amps. Not sure why it blew the
> relay, maybe the initial surge kills it, and I need
> to
> use a contactor?
> 
> > The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps.
> 
> > Take the resistance and let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hey Mike,
> > 
> > Michael had some problems with low starting
> torque. 
> > I
> > was able to give him help.  I might be able to
> help
> > you out also, but need some more info.  See
> inserted
> > comments....... 
> > 
> > 
> > --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > HELLO
> > > 
> > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> > > 
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > 
> > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > > flywheel...a
> > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > > 
> > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> > > through
> > > the controller, and separate 24volts directly to
> > the
> > > field.
> > > 
> > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used
> a
> > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> > > blew,
> > > so I removed a relay and connected through a 30
> > amp
> > > fuse.
> > 
> > The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps.
> 
> > Take the resistance and let me know.
> > 
> > > 
> > > I then started the car, and I really did see
> that
> > > much
> > > difference.
> > 
> > Did or did not?  What is your problem?  Sorry if I
> > missed that in a previous post.  What is it doing
> > and
> > what is it not doing?  
> > 
> > > 
> > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I
> > never
> > > found those improved coil springs for the geo
> > > metro...so I really didn't want to add another
> 200
> > > lbs
> > > in the rear.
> > 
> > The higher pack voltage will help at higher
> speeds. 
> > If you're working at lower speeds, like
> acceleration
> > from a stop, you should be in current limit and
> > higher
> > pack voltage on the armature shouldn't play a
> role.
> > 
> > > 
> > > thanks in advance,
> > > 
> > > Michael Golub
> > 
> > Give me some more details and I might offer some
> > help.
> > 
> > Jeff M
> > 
> > 
> >      
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
> > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
> >
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:13:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


 
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/images/features/16_5_6/batterycharger.pdf
 

This atricle (hope the link works) shows an
interesting approach.  See page 4.  Two motors side by
side, each with a gear reducer and U-joint (or CV) to
connect half shft.  Would seem to give an electric
differential and ability to series or parallel motors.

Jeff M



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:56:18 -0700
From: JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Currie Technologies
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 From the Daily News in Los Angeles:

Currie Technologies Inc Filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
Assets approximately $10 million, Debts $18 million
File dated 07-26-07
-------------------

I was one of their very first dealers, and own
4 of their electric bikes.

John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV



------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:20:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help needed with my Geo Metro
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


O.K. Mike,

So you'd think you'd have about 10 amps in the shunt
field.  Does the 24 volt battery hold up well at 10
amps?  Or does the voltage fall?

And again, sorry, what is the problem you're having?

Jeff M



--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I measure 2.5 Ohms in the field, so using 24 volts
> is
> pretty far from 30 amps. Not sure why it blew the
> relay, maybe the initial surge kills it, and I need
> to
> use a contactor?
> 
> > The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps.
> 
> > Take the resistance and let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hey Mike,
> > 
> > Michael had some problems with low starting
> torque. 
> > I
> > was able to give him help.  I might be able to
> help
> > you out also, but need some more info.  See
> inserted
> > comments....... 
> > 
> > 
> > --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > HELLO
> > > 
> > > I'm trying to duplicate what Michael did here:
> > > 
> > >
> >
>
http://www.texomaev.com-a.googlepages.com/mitsubishieclipseconversion
> > > 
> > > Using the G-29 Aircraft Generator, and no
> > > flywheel...a
> > > direct connection to the transmission.
> > > 
> > > I have a 1204 upgraded controller from logi
> > > 48-72volts, and I ran 48volts to the armature
> > > through
> > > the controller, and separate 24volts directly to
> > the
> > > field.
> > > 
> > > I used 8 awg wire for the 24 volt pack, and used
> a
> > > RY115 relay, which I thought was 30 amp, but it
> > > blew,
> > > so I removed a relay and connected through a 30
> > amp
> > > fuse.
> > 
> > The shunt field should be a lot less than 30 amps.
> 
> > Take the resistance and let me know.
> > 
> > > 
> > > I then started the car, and I really did see
> that
> > > much
> > > difference.
> > 
> > Did or did not?  What is your problem?  Sorry if I
> > missed that in a previous post.  What is it doing
> > and
> > what is it not doing?  
> > 
> > > 
> > > I guess all have to try a 72 volt pack, but I
> > never
> > > found those improved coil springs for the geo
> > > metro...so I really didn't want to add another
> 200
> > > lbs
> > > in the rear.
> > 
> > The higher pack voltage will help at higher
> speeds. 
> > If you're working at lower speeds, like
> acceleration
> > from a stop, you should be in current limit and
> > higher
> > pack voltage on the armature shouldn't play a
> role.
> > 
> > > 
> > > thanks in advance,
> > > 
> > > Michael Golub
> > 
> > Give me some more details and I might offer some
> > help.
> > 
> > Jeff M
> > 
> > 
> >      
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
> > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
> >
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play 
Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
http://sims.yahoo.com/  



------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:42:57 -0600
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: EV <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"




> 
> 
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/images/features/16_5_6/batterycharger.pdf
> 
> 
> This atricle (hope the link works) shows an
> interesting approach.  See page 4.  Two motors side by
> side, each with a gear reducer and U-joint (or CV) to
> connect half shft.  Would seem to give an electric
> differential and ability to series or parallel motors.
> 
> Jeff M
> 
> 
> 

Wow. I had thought of that same basic idea quite some time ago. His rendition 
is much nicer than mine would have been. ;-)
Thanks for the link.

I wonder if he'd consider selling those adaptors or their drawings....

--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 12:58:35 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

And two sets of two motors, one set in front, one rear.  I was contemplating 
an electric Lotus 7 clone for autocross, but he's way ahead of me.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Major" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea


>
>
> http://www.racecar-engineering.com/images/features/16_5_6/batterycharger.pdf
>
>
> This atricle (hope the link works) shows an
> interesting approach.  See page 4.  Two motors side by
> side, each with a gear reducer and U-joint (or CV) to
> connect half shft.  Would seem to give an electric
> differential and ability to series or parallel motors.
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Need a vacation? Get great deals
> to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> http://travel.yahoo.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 




------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 10:16:30 -0800
From: "Tehben Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alask Renewable Energy Fair
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>Tehben made it up from Homer

Yes, it was great to finally meet you mike :D
I got to TOUCH the motors. 8)  Can't wait to see the Pinto on the track.

>I was asked on multiple occasions about
> building electric 4-wheelers so I'll have to find someone willing to do the 
> work and >impart some knowledge to feed the masses ;-)

The guy who owns the machine shop that is doing my adapter wants to
convert a 4-wheeler and it is something I have been wanting to do, so
we will probably do a couple this winter.

Cheers,
-- 
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225



------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:34:27 -0400
From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Real HP in an EV ?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'm not sure, because I have no experience. But from what I've heard I
have the impression that 12 volt flooded batteries can put out 500
amps.

On 8/13/07, Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm a newbie, so I'm only guessing, but I think pulling 500 amps from 12V
> floodies will trash the batteries pretty quickly.  I think you can only do
> that from 6V floodies, and then not often.  Might want to model a pack of 6V
> floodies.
>
> Now if we could model a dozen 12V floodies in parallel with a dozen 12V
> AGM's...
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Real HP in an EV ?
>
>
> >I ran some number to find what the real hp would be in a typical EV,
> > just to get an idea of the kind of performance to expect from a
> > flooded conversion.
> >
> > For this I used some basic equations from zeva.com.au (great website
> > by the way!)
> >
> > So I tallied up the internal resistance (or ohms) in all the batteries
> > plus the wiring losses. I left out the losses in the contactors and
> > whatnot since I'm assuming it would be minuscule and I don't know
> > where to find that info.
> >
> > So, as I'm sure many of you know, to find power loss you multiply
> > resistance by the square of current.
> >
> > So I took the internal resistance, or ohms, of each battery and
> > multiplied it by how many batteries there would be. In this case, I
> > took 12 12 volt J-150 batteries, which have an internal resistance of
> > 0.0036, as per evconvert.com. I assumed a use of about 20 feet of
> > copper, which came up to 0.00154 ohms. I know that basically the max.
> > amount of current you can safely pull out of flooded lead-acid is 500
> > amps, so I used that as my current. Here's the math!
> >
> > 12 * 0.0036 + 0.00154 = 0.04474 ohms.
> >
> > P=500*500*0.044174
> >
> > So the power loss is around 11 kilowatts. The amount of power
> > available, without resistance, is 72 kilowatts (144votls*500amps) So
> > the real amount of power is 61 kilowatts. Then you have to multiply
> > that by the controller and motor. So it comes down to: 61*.95*.90=
> > 52kw or about 65-70hp.
> >
> > I have come to the conclusion that you can either have cheap flooded
> > batteries with so-so performance, pricey AGMs with great performance,
> > or the lithium based batteries that cost a fortune but in the long run
> > are the better solution.
> >
> > So anyway, were my numbers right?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:44:25 -0700
From: "Sam Maynard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Jukka? Rich?  Can you validate or invalidate this?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV


> At 07:01 AM 8/13/2007, jerryd wrote:
>>              Since TS won't come clean, isn't it time to set
>>up a website warning others about them? 2 can play the
>>internet game. When their actions hurt the bottom line, they
>>will pay attention and the internet levels the playing
>>field!!
>
> Take a look at  http://www.thundersky.us
>
> Needs more info on the page though.  Anyone want to write up
> something better and more informative?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer      mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:59:06 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings,  Re: New HEV and EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"


Ummmm,
 
What do Jukka and Rich have to do with it?  John was one of a group of people 
from this list that bought these very low quality cells and got burned.  You 
may be able to get 90ah cells from Thundersky which perform up to spec or they 
may decide to dump some low quality underperforming garbage and take your money 
as well.  Thats kind of the point...
 
damon> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 
11:44:25 -0700> Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV> > Jukka? 
Rich? Can you validate or invalidate this?> > > ----- Original Message ----- > 
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
"Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>> Sent: Monday, August 
13, 2007 9:51 AM> Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV> > > > At 
07:01 AM 8/13/2007, jerryd wrote:> >> Since TS won't come clean, isn't it time 
to set> >>up a website warning others about them? 2 can play the> >>internet 
game. When their actions hurt the bottom line, they> >>will pay attention and 
the internet levels the playing> >>field!!> >> > Take a look at 
http://www.thundersky.us> >> > Needs more info on the page though. Anyone want 
to write up> > something better and more informative?> >> > --> > John G. 
Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl!
  while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com> >> > 
_______________________________________________> > For subscription options, 
see> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev> > > > 
_______________________________________________> For subscription options, see> 
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_________________________________________________________________
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