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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: how good is the warp 9 motor? (Alan Brinkman)
   2. Re: A123 Battery Feasibility (Marty Hewes)


Message: 1
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 11:53:53 -0700
From: "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"

Hopefully you will get a motor source in your area from this E-mail

I needed some used forklift parts many years back and I just visited the
largest forklift business in my area.  They handled sales, rental, and
maintenance, and had a large bone yard of broken and older units in the
back.  After seeing what they had, and that they would sell used parts,
I returned with a better idea of my needs and purchased some parts.

Check the yellow pages and see what you have in Dallas.  Hopefully they
are located close together if you need to visit two or more businesses
before you find someone willing to work with you.  You may find a good
source of parts, advice, repairs in your visits.  Calling around is
quicker, but I have found that a visit in person sometimes will seal the
deal, when on the phone you just may get "we don't sell no stinking used
parts around here".


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:31 AM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?

Does anyone know of a source for forklift motor in the Dallas area?

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] how good is the warp 9 motor?

In a message dated 9/5/2007 4:45:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  

Cheapest way -- aircraft generator as the motor, or an 8" series DC  if
you have to.  Get a $500 VW rabbit for the donor (cheap, light,  no
power steering or power brakes to deal with, readily available  motor
adaptors)  Keep to under 96 volts and 500A controller to cut  costs.
Use a car alternator instead of a separate DC-DC.  Stick a bunch  of
the cheapest golf cart batteries you can find there.  It'll be  an
actual working electric car.... but probably won't impress many of
your  friends.
cheapest way is to hit the fork lift junk yards, you can find motors for

$25.00, the aircraft starter/gen is to big and heavy, but if you want

that's another option.
Jim L

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 13:55:09 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";

I think the capacitor bank for a shot of acceleration has merit, but would 
be significantly more difficult to implement because it is so different.

A cap loses voltage linearly with discharge.  To use 80% of the charge in 
the caps, you need a controller that can still provide drive current when 
the caps have dropped to 20% voltage output. Either the cap voltage needs to 
start very high, or the controller needs to boost.  I'm guessing that's a 
very different, and more expensive, controller.

Then the battery pack needs to recharge the caps which may need to charge to 
a significantly higher voltage than the batteries?  I don't think that's a 
common or reasonably priced charger, although charging caps is probably a 
whole lot simpler than charging batteries.  Just an inverter with current 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] A123 Battery Feasibility

> Sure, but then what is the cost savings if you kill the power pack by
> charging and discharging it 100 times more than if it was a full pack?

Where does the 100 times more come from?  I see two scenarios.  Either the 
power pack is made up of a small load of expensive batteries that can be 
cycled many times, but don't carry enough charge to get sufficient range 
(light but expensive solution).  Or the power pack is made up of cheaper 
higher capacity batteries but never discharged very deeply (cheaper but 

> Or the cost to replace the floodies from running them harder instead?

I'm guessing that since the acceleration current is primarily being supplied 
by batteries designed to supply high current, the floodies shoud last longer 
and not lose range due to Peukerts.  I don't see how they would be run 

> Or the extra weight being accelerated with a big heavy charge pack?

More weight than what?  A combination of floodie and AGM should give you 
more acceleration potential than an equivalent weight of all floodies, and 
more range and life span than an equivalent load of AGM.  I'm guessing that 
since the hybrid would draw on each type to do what they were designed to 
do, the result should be better than simply averaging all floodie and all 
AGM numbers.

> My view is that a capacitor bank provides the biggest DIFFERENCE from
> batteries so it has a lot more potential to be exploited for some gains.
> But in any case, it is straightfoward (but still time consuming) to test
> any setup on a small scale to find out how it works, a computer model
> might be even easier.

A computer model would be great.  But I don't see an inexpensive way to try 
putting an advanced battery type in parallel with a floodie with a nominal 
voltage maybe 10% higher.  What is the cheapest deep cycle floodie 
available?  Maybe that and some power tool AA's?  But mathematically I'd 
think you could characterize charge and discharge curves of both, boost the 
floodie curves 10%, and parallel them on paper so to speak.


> Jack


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End of EV Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14

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