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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Shunts revisited (Morgan LaMoore)
   2. List is Back? (Bob Rice)
   3. Re: This video a MUST SEE..... sorry I missed it on CBS
      Sunday Morning (Timothy Balcer)
   4. Re: Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers (Jeff Mccabe)
   5. Re: Yahoo and Bounce Scores... (David Roden)
   6. Re: Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers (Mike Willmon)
   7. Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record! (David Dymaxion)
   8. Re: Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   9. Re: Frames and Chassis (Bob Bath)
  10. Re: Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record!
      ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  11. Re: Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record! (R Patterson)
  12. Re: Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers (Roland Wiench)
  13. Re: Shunts revisited (Lee Hart)
  14. Re: Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers (Lee Hart)
  15. Re: Shunts revisited (Jeff Major)
  16. Re: Yahoo and Bounce Scores... (David Nelson)
  17. Off-topic, but hopefully helpful, was Re:  Yahoo and Bounce
      Scores... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  18. Re: Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers (Mike Willmon)
  19. Re: Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers (Lee Hart)
  20. Re: Yahoo and Bounce Scores... (David Roden)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:58:30 -0500
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Shunts revisited
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I think you'll have less accuracy, and you'll get more noise from electrical
interference. As long as you don't mind your amp readings being off by a few
percent and use a (small) filtering capacitor where the wires meet, I think
it'd work OK.

-Morgan

On 9/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I see that ~ 24.5 inches of 4/0 wire is 0.1 milli Ohm.  What do you  think
> of
> using this method as a shunt?
>
> Thank  you,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
> electricdelorean.com
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at
> http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:40:35 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] List is Back?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

  Hi EVerybody;

  A List message??? YES! I'm Back? Having serious EV withdrawl whatevers. 
Resubscribed again, with my other addie. Lets see if this one stays on?

   Maybe SOMEbody came up whether IS there a K and W Charger? Still in biz? 
In Marion Iowa?It's  part time. Open it up, diddle a bit and it comes on 
strong. Umplug it ,and plugitin a day later. Fan goes, hums along but NO 
output, nothin! Guess I have a crody connection? It runs a small SCR and a 
full wave bridge setup, a small printed circuit board. Wonder IF you could 
drive the SCR with a Light dimmer across the gate?I guess the heart of it, 
the board, is the control to the SCR gate? As it, the charger has 2 pots, 
for amps AND volts.Like IF it gets SO worse that It won't work at all. Nice 
fan, though. Sigh.Anybody else diddled sucessfully with these?

    Back again?

    Bob 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:51:11 -0400
From: "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] This video a MUST SEE..... sorry I missed it on
        CBS     Sunday Morning
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Good video but I think they should have done more research :)

Also.. I got a sour taste when Lutz said, about crushing the EV-1s "It
was done for all th right LEGAL reasons, but it was one of the dumbest
PR moves we've ever made"

Gotta love it. Also as far as I was aware, GM is doing next to nothing
in battery research.. it just is testing batteries from other vendors.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Dave,
Heres my ev.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/736
I have a 1200 amp raptor I run at 156 volts.
I use an SW200 + @ - side contactor, one each,2-
250amp dc breakers in parallel. I have had no problems
with this setup for over two months and 1000+ miles. I
have monitored the contactors very closely, making
sure their not getting hot. Even after several 1200amp
pulls they are barely warm to the touch.
hope this helps,
Jeff McCabe
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I am planning on having peak currents of 1000 Amps. 
> Where can I get  
> Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers that can
> handle that?
>  
> Thank  you,
> 
> Dave Delman
> 1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
> electricdelorean.com
> 
> 
> 
> ************************************** See what's
> new at http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 01:08:54 -0400
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Yahoo and Bounce Scores...
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Mailman tells me that 27 EVDL users were disabled for bounced mail today - 
an unusually high number.  Twenty-seven of them were at either yahoo.com or 
yahoo.co.uk domains.  

The "final straw" bounce was included in each notification.  Here's an 
example of a bounced message's error :

----- begin quoted text -----

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... Deferred
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue

--l8K7t0P4003610.1190360419/metis.sjsu.edu
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; metis.sjsu.edu
Arrival-Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:08:18 -0700 (PDT)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:40:19 -0700 (PDT)

----- end quoted text -----

We could configure Mailman to be even more tolerant of bounces, but I think 
all that would do is increase the time before you're disabled.  The real 
problem is Yahoo.  

I suspect - this is just a guess - that someone accidentally clicked the 
Yahoo SPAM button instead of the DELETE button on an EVDL message (or 
several of them).  Now Yahoo is assigning mail from our servers a lower 
priority.  Again, this is just my guess and it could be wide of the mark.

I'll email SJSU support about this and see if they have any suggestions.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:35:09 -0800
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Dave,
Circuit Breakers visit John Drake the Solar Seller:
http://www.solarseller.com/
Scroll half way down the main page to #45 UL Listed DC Breakers up to 125 volts
Then scroll half way down and find this:
Airpax model # JLM-1-30353-3, 250 amp d.c. circuit breaker rated
at up to 160 volts d.c.

I can regularly pull 1000 amps through this breaker for several seconds for 
multiple runs before it gets hot and trips and needs
to cool down.  I run two of these in series (but mechanically ganged together) 
to for a 320V rating.  the price is right at $35
each.  I bought a six pack when he had a deal for $20 each.  They seem the same 
construction, and a better alternative to $100
priced GJ-H3 series also listed on that page.

The Kilovac "Bubba" EV500 
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/ev500.pdf can break 1000A at 
270Vdc for an approximate
cycle life of 30 cycles. The only reason it would have to break under load is 
in an emergency and I would hop eyou wouldn't have
emergencies numbering in the tens for the life of the vehicle.  Tyco quoted me 
a price direct for these at $1600 each.  I have
been quoted by resellers prices between that and $3300 each.  To spendy for the 
average racer.  A good alternative and in some
ways better than the Albright SW200 are the KiloVac LEV200 
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/LEV200_ds_9-1773439-1.pdf
has the same cycle life as the EV500 at 1000A and 270V and they can be had for 
$90 at http://www.evsource.com/tls_relays.php .
Thay also list the Albright SW200 at $121 which isn't to aweful of a price.

Appropriate size EV fuses (for racing too) can also be found at 
http://www.evsource.com/tls_fuses.php to give you an idea of which
fuses are recommended and used for the different levels of Zilla power.

Hope this helps.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 7:27 PM
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
>
>
> I am planning on having peak currents of 1000 Amps.  Where can I get
> Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers that can handle that?
>
> Thank  you,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
> electricdelorean.com
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:16:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The results aren't posted on the saltflats website yet, but I was there and I 
saw it happen! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, 48 miles per hour on an electric 
barstool! You can see some pictures, video, and commentary on:

http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/saltflats/2007worldofspeed/barstool

Enjoy!





       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the 
tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:06:05 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

 
 
Ian,
 
So does that mean I need to run three SW200s in parallel to handle 1000  amps?

Hi Dave,

Contactors: Kilovac Bubbas are probably your best  option, rated to  
600A. White Zombie uses two of them in parallel, if I  remember  
correctly. But Albright SW200 type (400A) contactors should  also be  
fine and are a lot cheaper.

Fuses: I see evparts.com  has 800A fuses for a decent price, otherwise  
search for "Shawmut" on  eBay, might be able to pick up a bargain.

Circuit breakers big enough for  high powered EVs are really hard to  
find and expensive. Heinemann GJ1P  are the ones I'm familiar with  
(search eBay for GJ1P), but all the  variants above 400A are only  
rated to 65VDC! You could run several in  series for higher voltage,  
but even one is pretty expensive.. Anyone  know of any other  options?

-Ian





************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:31:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Frames and Chassis
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Electric Vehicle Discussion List
        <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I'm partial to Gen. 5 (92-95) Civics.  Many have been
done.  Follow the link to my online journal.
peace,

--- Fred Artus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> I'm in Maine and am thinking about a light four
> wheel EV.
> 
> Fred Artus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 


Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  For $20 DVD you can purchase footage of my 
'92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too! 
Learn more at: www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html                        
          ____ 
                     __/__|__\ __        
  =D-------/    -  -         \  
                     'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? 
Are you saving any gas for your kids?


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:32:43 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record!
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 9/22/2007 12:17:59 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
> [EVDL] Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record! 
> Date:9/22/2007 12:17:59 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> CC:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Received from Internet: 
> 
> 
> 
> The results aren't posted on the saltflats website yet, but I was there and 
> I saw it happen! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, 48 miles per hour on an electric 
> barstool! You can see some pictures, video, and commentary on:
> 
> http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/saltflats/2007worldofspeed/barstool
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
That starter motor was in my shop for 2 months geting some of my mods.Dennis 
Berube   


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:54:48 -0400
From: "R Patterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

What all do you do to mod a truck starter? ... and is one type of
starter really faster than another?

I'd like to plop one down on a go-cart frame I have, any suggestions
to crank out some speed?

Thanks,

Ralph.

On 9/22/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 9/22/2007 12:17:59 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > [EVDL] Electric Barstool sets Land Speed Record!
> > Date:9/22/2007 12:17:59 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> > From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > CC:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Received from Internet:
> >
> >
> >
> > The results aren't posted on the saltflats website yet, but I was there and
> > I saw it happen! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, 48 miles per hour on an electric
> > barstool! You can see some pictures, video, and commentary on:
> >
> > http://www.explodingdinosaurs.com/saltflats/2007worldofspeed/barstool
> >
> > Enjoy!
> >
> That starter motor was in my shop for 2 months geting some of my mods.Dennis
> Berube
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


-- 
Victory belongs to the most persevering.
--Napoleon Bonaparte--



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:02:23 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Dave,

I like heavy super duty industrial open type contactors that can be adjusted 
for drop out and pull in of the contact pads.  Can be completely overhaul 
and still get parts for it no matter how old it is.    The type of contactor 
is from CableForm Inc which is a 600 amp continuous running and have a peak 
current rating of 2000 amps. You can stack up more conductor straps in 
increase the ampere.  The contact buttons are mounted on a 2 inch long by 
1.5 inch high by 1 inch wide block of brass where you can mounted several 
large 4/0 or larger wired terminals. This contactor is mounted on a 
insulated chassis board.

You can get line voltage coils, meaning that the coil can be operated at the 
voltage of the battery pack.  You can adjust the coil voltage size, where 
when you battery pack is at the lowest limit your controller is set, and for 
some reason the controller does not drop out, the controller will then drop 
out if you use the correct coil voltage.  If you do not want this feature, 
than use a separate 12 voltage source.

I am using a 180 volt contactor coil, which is control by a Square D glass 
relay by the Zilla.  It is best to use this type of relay to control a 
contactor with a 12 volt coil, because the inductive kick can take out a 
controller driver circuits which has done to some people on this list.  I 
use a NTE4933 Zener Overvoltage Transient Suppressor Bidirection across the 
contactor coils which suppresses the inductive surge.

The frame size is a standard industrial size, meaning 50 years from now a 
new contactor will fit in the same location you install back in 1950.  Same 
as a circuit breaker for a house that was install back then, you can get a 
circuit breaker that will still fit the same panel frame.

As for the fuses, I have use Bussman Limitron bolt fuses that mount on 
insulated stand offs.  For 30 years I ran this 400 amp continuous rated fuse 
with a peak AIC 250,000 amps.  I can pull 600 amps for 3 or more minutes 
going up a 2 mile 7 percent grade hill at 60 mph pulling a 8000 lb EV using 
300 AH cobalt batteries.

If you go to the Bussman fuse WEB site, It will give you the range of 
interrupting ampere per time.  I think it was still several seconds at 7000 
amps.

Look at your controller specifications for the recommended fuse size.  My 
1000 amp Zilla recommended a semi-conductor fuse, which is design to protect 
solid state devices.  I use a 400 amp semi-conductor fuse, but they do not 
have the high AIC rating as of the Limitron type fuse. These fuses will blow 
if you have a short circuit, but also does have a long over current delay 
time.

If you do not worry about cost, these industrial protection devices can cost 
as or more than a controller and they are larger than the throw away enclose 
contactors.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:27 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers


> I am planning on having peak currents of 1000 Amps.  Where can I get
> Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers that can handle that?
>
> Thank  you,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
> electricdelorean.com
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:17:22 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Shunts revisited
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I see that ~ 24.5 inches of 4/0 wire is 0.1 milli Ohm.  What do you
> think of using this method as a shunt?

Yes, ordinary copper wire can be used as a shunt resistor. It's 
certainly cheap and easy! Plus, the wire is already there anyway. You 
can connect a sensitive milliammeter to two points X inches apart that 
just happen to give you the right resistance, and have a high current 
ammeter.

There are couple problems: The resistance per foot of wire is only 
approximate, so your ammeter will need to be calibrated with a good 
known accurate ammeter. Copper has a positive temperature coefficient, 
so the hotter the wire, the higher the apparent current will be.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:21:41 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am planning on having peak currents of 1000 Amps.  Where can I get  
> Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers that can handle that?

You'll also want to know (or have a pretty good guess) the average 
current. Most wiring, switches, connectors, contactors, etc. are sized 
for the average current rather than the peak current.

I've found old fork lifts to be an excellent source of parts. They are 
somewhat large and heavy, but considerably overbuilt and often very cheap.

Depending on what you need, ordinary electrical supply houses have a lot 
of parts. For those cases where you need DC rated parts (fuses, 
contactors) they are available from EVparts and other online sources.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Shunts revisited
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


Hi Dave,

Yeah, you can do this.  But current shunts are made of
an alloy which doesn't change resistance with heat,
within its ratings.  Copper wire will change.  The
other source of error is the connections.  On shunts,
the sense lead terminals are independent of the power
terminals.  This will be difficult to do with copper
cable and lug ends.  If you're going to the trouble of
instrumenting with an ammeter, I'd recommend you use a
shunt.  I've gotten several off eBay for as little as
$5.  New ones, maybe $50 or 60, guessing.

Jeff M





--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I see that ~ 24.5 inches of 4/0 wire is 0.1 milli
> Ohm.  What do you  think of 
> using this method as a shunt?
>  
> Thank  you,
> 
> Dave Delman
> 1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
> electricdelorean.com
> 
> 
> 
> ************************************** See what's
> new at http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



      
____________________________________________________________________________________
Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:29:58 -0700
From: "David Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Yahoo and Bounce Scores...
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I was one of those who got disabled so I set up a gmail account and
updated my EVDL setting to use this account instead of my yahoo.com
account. Today I see that my yahoo account had three "new" messages
which all arrived after the messages on the 21st but were dated before
the 21st. This is really strange.

David Nelson

On 9/21/07, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mailman tells me that 27 EVDL users were disabled for bounced mail today -
> an unusually high number.  Twenty-seven of them were at either yahoo.com or
> yahoo.co.uk domains.
>
> The "final straw" bounce was included in each notification.  Here's an
> example of a bounced message's error :
>
> ----- begin quoted text -----
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... Deferred
> Message could not be delivered for 5 days
> Message will be deleted from queue
>
> --l8K7t0P4003610.1190360419/metis.sjsu.edu
> Content-Type: message/delivery-status
>
> Reporting-MTA: dns; metis.sjsu.edu
> Arrival-Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:08:18 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Action: failed
> Status: 4.4.7
> Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:40:19 -0700 (PDT)
>
> ----- end quoted text -----
>
> We could configure Mailman to be even more tolerant of bounces, but I think
> all that would do is increase the time before you're disabled.  The real
> problem is Yahoo.
>
> I suspect - this is just a guess - that someone accidentally clicked the
> Yahoo SPAM button instead of the DELETE button on an EVDL message (or
> several of them).  Now Yahoo is assigning mail from our servers a lower
> priority.  Again, this is just my guess and it could be wide of the mark.
>
> I'll email SJSU support about this and see if they have any suggestions.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:14:00 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Off-topic, but hopefully helpful, was Re:  Yahoo and
        Bounce Scores...
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Short Summary:

1) If you think the list is broken, and you have a Yahoo address, please 
don't post to the list.  It isn't the list, it's Yahoo.  (David, is 
there an easy way for people to check if they got unsubscribed?  That 
would help.)

2) We can improve the success rate, so be patient.

3) Let's not turn this into a huge off-topic thread.  I have some info 
and some recommendations below that may help David.  If you have 
questions or flames, please bring 'em directly to me rather than waste 
list time on off-topic stuff.


Details:

David Roden wrote:
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... Deferred
> Message could not be delivered for 5 days
> Message will be deleted from queue
...
> Reporting-MTA: dns; metis.sjsu.edu
...
> Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Action: failed
> Status: 4.4.7

Allow me to translate between SMTP and English:

"Hi, this is the SJSU mail server.  I tried to pass your message along 
to Yahoo.co.uk, but never to through after trying for 5 days.  I'm 
configured not to try any longer than that, so I'm bouncing the message, 
but you really should check with those yahoos and tell them to get their 
act together."

> We could configure Mailman to be even more tolerant of bounces, but I
> think all that would do is increase the time before you're disabled.
> The real problem is Yahoo.

You are correct in both statements.  Having said that, if the mountain 
won't come to Mohammad, Mohammad must go to the mountain.

There is a Yahoo FAQ about email issues here:

http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/mail/original/abuse/abuse-58.html or 
http://tinyurl.com/2ze22o

Specifically, SJSU should be sure to:

1) Remove addresses that bounce (a real 5xx "no such user" bounce, 
unlike the 477 bounce above).  If SJSU can handle it, try enabling VERP 
in Mailman (see 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.002.htp or 
http://tinyurl.com/yvw4o2)

2) Reverse DNS for metis looks good; that can be an issue if it is wrong.

3) I don't see that metis accepts SMTP from the outside world.  Some 
(stupid) systems attempt a back-SMTP connection to the sending server 
(to verify it is a "mail server").  Unlikely in this case, but you might 
have the mail/firewall admins look for back-connections to see if that 
could be an issue.  Also, make sure you accept or reject 113/TCP (IDENT) 
connections rather than dropping them; if you silently drop them it 
generally introduces a 30-second delay into SMTP transactions.

3) Consider setting up DomainKeys (http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys) 
which is Yahoo's horse in the "we need new anti-spam technology" race. 
Like VERP, this will probably increase the complexity and load on SJSU.

4) If these have been tried and we still have problems, David can 
contact Yahoo (http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/us/mail/cgi_domainkeys) to 
see what else can be done.

I'm happy to answer questions about any of this, but again - off-list so 
we can talk about EVs, please.

Greg Owen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:01:11 -0800
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

The SW200 will handle 1200A for 25 seconds, and 1000A for ~50 seconds.  You 
shouldn't need more than that unless you are really
truly able to continuously pull 1000A.

Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 4:06 AM
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
>
>
>
>
> Ian,
>
> So does that mean I need to run three SW200s in parallel to handle 1000  amps?
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> Contactors: Kilovac Bubbas are probably your best  option, rated to
> 600A. White Zombie uses two of them in parallel, if I  remember
> correctly. But Albright SW200 type (400A) contactors should  also be
> fine and are a lot cheaper.
>
> Fuses: I see evparts.com  has 800A fuses for a decent price, otherwise
> search for "Shawmut" on  eBay, might be able to pick up a bargain.
>
> Circuit breakers big enough for  high powered EVs are really hard to
> find and expensive. Heinemann GJ1P  are the ones I'm familiar with
> (search eBay for GJ1P), but all the  variants above 400A are only
> rated to 65VDC! You could run several in  series for higher voltage,
> but even one is pretty expensive.. Anyone  know of any other  options?
>
> -Ian
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:28:43 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Contactors, Fuses and Circuit Breakers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So does that mean I need to run three SW200s in parallel to handle
> 1000 amps?

It's generally a bad idea to parallel switches, connectors, contactors, 
fuses, circuit breakers, and other very low resistance devices like 
this. Their contact resistance is so low that trivial differences in the 
wiring and connections to them lead to large current differences.

If you really must do it, then use relatively long connecting wires to 
each, so that the resistance of the wire provides a stabilizing effect 
to force the current to divide more equally.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:57:00 -0400
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Yahoo and Bounce Scores...
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 22 Sep 2007 at 9:29, David Nelson wrote:

> Today I see that my yahoo account had three "new" messages
> which all arrived after the messages on the 21st but were dated before
> the 21st. This is really strange.

Not really.  The mail sending program at SJSU kept trying to send those 
earlier messages, which had been submitted for delivery before you stopped 
the Yahoo subscription.  That's normal behavior for that function.  Finally 
the messages got through.

I contacted SJSU support about this problem, and received this reply :

----- begin quoted text -----

Our email gateway admin noted this problem recently and has been researching 
the cause.  It is the mail servers that Mailman uses to transfer mail, 
rather than the mailman server itself.  I believe he worked with Yahoo and 
made some changes last evening, I'll ask him if there have been significant 
improvements.  

----- end quoted text -----

If you subscribe with a Yahoo account, please keep me informed about whether 
you see an improvement or not.  Since this concerns a subset of the list, 
you might want to email me privately.  Don't reply to my sending address on 
this message - I won't see it.  Instead, please use my private email address 
for this purpose - you'll find it at the bottom of :

http://www.evdl.org/help/

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

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