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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Overdiven 10hp AC (Dan Frederiksen)
   2. Re: I have an EV!!!! (And some questions) (Roland Wiench)
   3. Scientists Invent 30 Year Continuous Power Laptop Battery
   4. Re: I have an EV!!!! (And some questions)
      (Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins)


Message: 1
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:48:22 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Overdiven 10hp AC
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I still haven't looked into motor theory in details but seems to me that 
AC's main power advantage is rpm because it's free of brushes. but it's 
only speculation so far.

another angle worth considering is some permanent magnet DC motors which 
seem to have much higher power density than the popular series motors.
the Etek being an example. unfortunately that's a bit on the small size 
but at only 9kg it's quite impressive. Lemco has a very similar one but 
a bit larger so it could work in a car but unfortunately they were 
struck with rigor mortis in their brains when pricing it (around 1600$). 
performance wise it seems to be near the ADC 6.7" which is quite nice 
for 11kg (yes it's kilogram. it's time you learn proper units USA. if I 
convert it for you you wont learn anything)
The ADC 6.7" L91 weighs 38.6kg

I'm piecing together a table of motor specs for comparison:  (some values are guesstimations, some may 
be wrong, some may be factory lies or too conservative)
(if you know some of the missing values or can correct some, let me know.)

so far I haven't added any AC motors because it seems they are all 
ridiculously priced.



Message: 2
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:03:19 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I have an EV!!!! (And some questions)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

> On 30 Sep 2007 at 19:48, Hunter Cook wrote:
> > But $1500+ vs. $700 or so for a Russco is a big difference to
> > me.

Hello Hunter,

Here is another thing you can do with your existing set up.  Reduce the 
battery pack from 24 T-145's to 18 T-145's which will save you 426 lbs 
making this EV weigh about 4300 lbs instead of 4787 lbs.

On your next battery pack, you could use a battery that is equal to a 
T-105's which is about 220 AH. Using 18 batteries for 108 volt pack or 20 
batteries for a 120 volt pack, the range will be the same at about 30 miles 
for these two types of batteries, but your top speed will drop about 4 miles 
for the 18 battery pack which will save you 659 lbs.

All the above calculations are from the Uve's Electric Vehicle Calculator 
that is at a new updated one at:

For you vehicle choice, I use the NON-AERODYNAMIC SMALL TRUCK,  the tire 
rolling resistance at .0015, using ADC motors at 120 and 144 volts and a 
Curtis controller.

The range between the two types of batteries is still 57 miles at 60 mph, 
but the top speed drops about 6 miles to about 76 mph for the 108 volt pack.

Even if you had a 144 volt charger and 144 volt battery pack of T-145's the 
range is still 57 miles which is the same as a 108 volt pack.

If you went to T-105's at 108 volts, the range is now at 30 miles at 60 mph.

The above ranges is at full battery discharge.  The operating range would be 
half of the calculated range or 50% DOD.



Message: 3
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 11:34:48 -0700
Subject: [EVDL] Scientists Invent 30 Year Continuous Power Laptop
Cc: Electric Discussion List <>,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"

A different form of the beta battery emerges from government labs. 
+riginal patented about 20 years used a beta source hitting cathodes.)

Wouldn't this make a fantastic car. Imagine your only limit being the 
continous output of the battery for speed - never range!

  October 1, 07

  Scientists Invent 30 Year Continuous Power Laptop Battery

  Your next laptop could have a continuous power battery that lasts for 
30 years without a single recharge thanks to work being funded by the 
U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory. The breakthrough betavoltaic power 
cells are constructed from semiconductors and use radioisotopes as the 
energy source. As the radioactive material decays it emits beta 
particles that transform into electric power capable of fueling an 
electrical device like a laptop for years.

  Although betavoltaic batteries sound Nuclear they?re not, they?re 
neither use fission/fusion or chemical processes to produce energy and 
so (do not produce any radioactive or hazardous waste). Betavoltaics 
generate power when an electron strikes a particular interface between 
two layers of material. The Process uses beta electron emissions that 
occur when a neutron decays into a proton which causes a forward bias in 
the semiconductor. This makes the betavoltaic cell a forward bias diode 
of sorts, similar in some respects to a photovoltaic (solar) cell. 
Electrons scatter out of their normal orbits in the semiconductor and 
into the circuit creating a usable electric current.

  The profile of the batteries can be quite small and thin, a porous 
silicon material is used to collect the hydrogen isotope tritium which 
is generated in the process. The reaction is non-thermal which means 
laptops and other small devices like mobile phones will run much cooler 
than with traditional lithium-ion power batteries. The reason the 
battery lasts so long is that neutron beta-decay into protons is the 
world's most concentrated source of electricity, truly demonstrating 
Einstein?s theory E=MC2.

  The best part about these cells are when they eventually run out of 
power they are totally inert and non-toxic, so environmentalists need 
not fear these high tech scientific wonder batteries. If all goes well 
plans are for these cells to reach store shelves in about 2 to 3 years. for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming 
and the melting poles. daily solar and earthquake images.


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 12:52:33 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
From: "Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I have an EV!!!! (And some questions)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

David and All,
Here we go again! Are you referring to the Zivan beating up AGM batteries with 
no regulators? We are talking about floodies, and I have gotten over 20,000 
miles out of T-145's with a Zivan NG3. The floodies required very little water 
because the final stage current is low, blah, blah, blah. The Zivan DOES need 
to be setup properly for the pack!
Suck Amps,

>Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 12:21:18 -0400
>From: "David Roden" 
<much snippage>
>Zivan might work for you, but they are also not user programmable and tend 
>to beat up the batteries.  Made in Italy last time I looked.  No official 
>rep on this list that I know of.


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