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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Open source controller design (Dan Frederiksen)
   2. Re: Electric EVette amps (Dan Frederiksen)
   3. PakTrakr vs E-meter (David Nelson)
   4. Re: Open source controller design (Lee Hart)
   5. Re: Electric EVette amps (Ben)
   6. Re: Que sera, was Open source controller design (Lee Hart)
   7. Re: Silent vehicles, was Re:  Sensors at drive throughs
      (dale henderson)
   8. spot price of lead (R. Matt Milliron)
   9. Re: Proud new owner of a U.S. Electricar Geo Prism (David Roden)
  10. Re: spot price of lead (JRP3)
  11. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  12. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (Morgan LaMoore)
  13. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (mosesmo)
  14. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (David Nelson)
  15. Re: OT Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs
      (Michael Perry)
  16. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  17. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (David Nelson)
  18. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  19. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (Bill Dube)
  20. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (Morgan LaMoore)
  21. Re: OT Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs
      (David Nelson)
  22. Re: Open source controller design (Jack Murray)
  23. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (David Roden)
  24. How to dim LED turn signal indicators (David Nelson)
  25. Re: Electric EVette amps (Morgan LaMoore)
  26. Re: Que sera, was Open source controller design (Morgan LaMoore)
  27. Re: Open source controller design (Morgan LaMoore)
  28. Fw:  Open source controller design (Bob Rice)
  29. 3 watt LED vs Incandescent photo comparison link (David Nelson)
  30. Re: Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV (Morgan LaMoore)
  31. Re: Electric EVette amps (Dan Frederiksen)
  32. Re: S10 racing at Firebird (Mike Willmon)
  33. Re: Electric EVette amps ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  34. Re: Open source controller design (Cory Cross)
  35. high pitched noise (Michael Mohlere)
  36. Re: high pitched noise (Dan Frederiksen)
  37. Battery Trailer (Mike Chancey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:07:49 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Open source controller design
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Lee Hart wrote:

>I have, on the EV list, many times. But I don't sell them as products, 
>or publish complete "how to" details because I'm not happy with the 
>designs. I gave up on my own controllers because I can buy better ones 
>than I can build.
>  
>
Well, I've talked about designing controllers quite a bit as you know 
and as far as I can recall you haven't shown me any of it.
And I understand the responsibility of putting out a design but that's 
easily fixed with caveats. simply state that it's a work in progress and 
there's no guarantee it won't fail disastrously in practice. maybe 
specific concerns yet to be adressed with the design. as long as you 
don't vouch for it as perfect there is no problem with sharing your 
work. others might spot problems or validate the design and it might end 
up getting built and move the cause forward. it could literally change 
the world.

and it takes no effort to put it online if you have the circuit diagrams 
already. maybe a few pictures of test builds. a test drive video would 
be very inspiring too if you have ever gotten that far. if you don't 
have a website I will gladly host a Lee Hart section.

when we all start from scratch we don't get as far as we could. doesn't 
have to be perfect to be good.

Dan




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:18:43 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette amps
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Ben wrote:

>I understand constructive criticism, so don't take this the wrong way
>Dan --  but I have to comment that it seems a bit strange to hear a
>EVer dismissing different techniques and technologies because the
>existing/established/normal ways to do things work just fine. Yes,
>it's true -- four wheels are normal, and usually work well. Yeah,
>drive-by-wire is rare and adds some more (electronic) complexity. On
>the other hand, when you consider the goal of transportation form
>point A to point B, ICE vehicles certainly get the job done just fine
>.... Why should we consider something new?
>  
>
I don't mind and I think the true reason you say this is not because you 
believe it but to protect his feelings.
I was concerned about that too but I have faith in truth. I believe we 
are all the better for it when we dare tell the truth and not imprison 
ourselves in short sighted concerns.
We should make EVs because og global warming and peak oil. obviously
There is no similar reason for less than 4 wheels and you shouldn't 
suggest there is

Dan



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:25:29 -0700
From: "David Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] PakTrakr vs E-meter
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I was wondering how the PakTrakr with a current sensor on the battery
pack compared with an E-meter that several of you have. I have a
PakTrakr on its way for my Gizmo EV but was wondering about the
E-meter.

Thank you,

David Nelson

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:00:08 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Open source controller design
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>> I also think that the power electronics shouldn't go on a circuit
>> board. Ideally, I think they should be something like SOT-227 package
>> screwed onto a heatsink with busbar or thick wire connecting them.

Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> well the Curtis uses TO-220 parts and the Zilla allegedly uses TO-247. 
> both are pcb components.

The Curtis and Zilla use dozens of small parts in parallel to carry 
hundreds of amps, so the current per device is quite low. Buss bars are 
stacked onto the PC board and arranged very close to the devices to 
absolutely minimize the amount of PC board foil carrying these currents. 
Getting this to work is tricky, because the foil has significant 
resistance and heating problems, even at mere 10's of amps.

> I think there is some significant elegance in the pcb approach
> and it's actually possible to reasonably carry a lot of power that
> way not to mention... a very significant cost element

Try it, and make some measurements.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 22:34:24 -0400
From: Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette amps
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Truthfully, I am impressed with the design and believe what I said.
Maybe not the body style itself isn't for me, but that's superficial
so I didn't comment.

I agree with you that we should be driving EVs to reduce\remove our
reliance on oil and for the environment ... To that end, I really see
every EV that someone builds as a good thing, as long as it works for
them.

Ben

On 10/6/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ben wrote:
>
> >I understand constructive criticism, so don't take this the wrong way
> >Dan --  but I have to comment that it seems a bit strange to hear a
> >EVer dismissing different techniques and technologies because the
> >existing/established/normal ways to do things work just fine. Yes,
> >it's true -- four wheels are normal, and usually work well. Yeah,
> >drive-by-wire is rare and adds some more (electronic) complexity. On
> >the other hand, when you consider the goal of transportation form
> >point A to point B, ICE vehicles certainly get the job done just fine
> >.... Why should we consider something new?
> >
> >
> I don't mind and I think the true reason you say this is not because you
> believe it but to protect his feelings.
> I was concerned about that too but I have faith in truth. I believe we
> are all the better for it when we dare tell the truth and not imprison
> ourselves in short sighted concerns.
> We should make EVs because og global warming and peak oil. obviously
> There is no similar reason for less than 4 wheels and you shouldn't
> suggest there is
>
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:48:53 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Que sera, was Open source controller design
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The problem is [Lee's] not charging for expert advice, so those who  
> receive it apply no value to it.

Aha! I think you've hit the nail on the head! Since they got the 
information for free, it is of no value. Since it has no value, there is 
no point in heeding it :-)

I prefer to think of my information as "priceless"! :-)
-- 
"An engineer can tell you if it will work *before* you build it. Any
damned fool can tell *after* you built it!" -- Charles Proteus Steinmetz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 19:41:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re:  Sensors at drive
        throughs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

i would not support such, consider construction
vehicles, they all have beeper back ups, but on site
all the workers have tuned that out as background
noise, however surrounding the work site the people
are not numbed to the sound and it is very annoying. 
the the first few cars that have a beeping sensor
would work, but soon it will just become noise
pollution without any benefits

--- Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've seen a lot of backup sensors in newer car rear
> bumpers.  Anybody know 
> the range and field of view on something like that? 
> Maybe turn on a noise 
> maker if something is detected in front?  Isn't
> Volvo or somebody 
> advertising a collision warning system that might be
> used to turn on noise? 
> We wouldn't have to listen to the noise all the
> time.
> 
> Marty
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "ampaynz1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors
> at drive throughs
> 
> 
> >
> > Instead of making EV's quieter, the blind should
> wear a belt that senses 
> > all
> > objects around them in a circle and gives off a
> beep when it detects a
> > moving object. They can carry a backpack that
> houses their batteries or
> > maybe the batteries to power the device can be put
> in the cane they use.
> >
> >
> >
> > gowen wrote:
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> I've seen some discussion as to whether electric
> / hybrid cars need
> >>> some form of noise-maker for urban environments
> where pedestrians are
> >>> used to being able to hear traffic, including
> the visually impaired.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > -- 
> > View this message in context: 
> >
>
http://www.nabble.com/Sensors-at-drive-throughs-tf4552806s25542.html#a13060239
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> mailing list archive at 
> > Nabble.com.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 


harry

Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1221
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman


       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. 
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 22:08:52 -0500
From: "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] spot price of lead
To: ev list <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


  Just pulled my first bad battery. 

  "It's dead Jim."

 It did not survive the two year enforced hibernation/wait for my car
to get running.  The replacement battery is now twice what I paid for
the original.  I checked the price for new lead just now.  Spot is
1.65 American.  That makes the lead in the 65 pound battery that is
going to cost me $80, worth $99.  At the rate metal prices are
climbing it won't be long till lithium is cheaper than flooded.

  Other wise the other nine batteries are doing well and getting
stronger every day.  I am driving the car into town (6.6 miles total)
every day to get them exercised.  

  R. M. Milliron

1981 Jet Electrica  
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702

  This machine has been garaged for 17 years. 
I am upgrading it and getting it running. Tabitha,
my daughter, named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:26:21 -0400
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Proud new owner of a U.S. Electricar Geo Prism
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 6 Oct 2007 at 18:38, Loni wrote:

> Ironically, I get the impression that you couldn't get $5000 for one of 
> these Prisms 3 years ago. I wonder if I'll continue to see my vehicle 
> appreciating as EV enthusiasm grows...   ; )

And depreciating as it wanes!

Used EV prices tend to follow the price of gasoline.  In the late 1980s, 
when gasoline was cheap, one could buy a 8-10 year old small car that had 
been converted with typical components of the time - Prestolite series 
motor, Curtis controller, 96 volts of golf car batteries, and a Lester or 
K&W charger - for between $2000 and $4000.  That was for a running, 
serviceable EV with old but (possibly) usable batteres, NOT for a hulk that 
had been sitting in an open field for 10 years.  Newer gliders brought more, 
but sometimes not much more. 

Fancier or higher performance conversions were valued more highly, of 
course.  A nice sports car, or one with AC drive, might have gone for $6-8k. 
 

Now it's almost impossible to buy even a rusted-out hulk for much under $2k. 
 In addition to the increased demand, Ebay has allowed sellers to connect 
with potential buyers all over the nation.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:29:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: JRP3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] spot price of lead
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Our battery supplier at work sent us a memo in August saying that battery
prices were increasing 12% and that we would have to give them a core for
each battery or pay at least $10. core charge, depending on the size.  They
claim this was because China is drastically reducing their lead exports. 
They need raw materials.
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/spot-price-of-lead-tf4581897s25542.html#a13079621
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 20:56:40 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=ISO-8859-1;     DelSp="Yes";
        format="flowed"

<<<< Daren's statements about the neodymium magnets is correct. They have
been around for years. They are used in computer hard drives in the
motor mechanism and for the voice-coil head positioning system. They
are used many other places too, like the end of SoniCare tooth brush
heads. You can tear apart most any hard drive built in the last 15-20
years and find these magnets. The best are the full-height drives. I
use those magnets to demonstrate the effect that Daren is talking
about. You can take an aluminum or copper pipe and drop one of these
type of magnets in it and the eddy currents will make the magnet
_slowly_ drop through it. The big ones are strong enough to pick up
the corner of a US $1 bill due to the magnetic ink. >>>>

So, how much energy would we get if we converted all of the suspension  
movement into electricity? I suspect the total would be trivial on  
most roads, as these components would get uncomfortably hot generating  
anything over a couple hundred watts/hour. Best-case, you'd be lucky  
to add 1% to an EV's range - not what most would consider money  
well-spent.




------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 22:59:34 -0500
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Force of air drag times distance equals energy required
.5*Cd*A*rho*v^2*d
The lowest Cd I found for a Dodge Caravan was .35, and the lowest area
was 30 square feet.
.5*.35*30ft^2*1.3kg/m^3*(55mph)^2*150miles
25.7 kWh

Energy in 16 T-105's (using 6 hour rate even though he's at 3 hour
rate, ignoring Peukert's effect):
16*6V*205Ah
19.7 kWh

He's only 20% short! However, you have to add in rolling resistance
losses, he'll be farther behind. It would take a really deep discharge
to go 150 miles, and you'd be destroying the batteries.

That said, it was a lot closer than I expected, so if there was even a
downwards slope of a few percent, they might be able to do it.

And yeah, the magnetic shocks make sense, if you could get big enough
magnets. I don't know how they'd help range, though.

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: mosesmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


I'm using 16 T-145's not 105's sorry.

Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> 
> Force of air drag times distance equals energy required
> .5*Cd*A*rho*v^2*d
> The lowest Cd I found for a Dodge Caravan was .35, and the lowest area
> was 30 square feet.
> .5*.35*30ft^2*1.3kg/m^3*(55mph)^2*150miles
> 25.7 kWh
> 
> Energy in 16 T-105's (using 6 hour rate even though he's at 3 hour
> rate, ignoring Peukert's effect):
> 16*6V*205Ah
> 19.7 kWh
> 
> He's only 20% short! However, you have to add in rolling resistance
> losses, he'll be farther behind. It would take a really deep discharge
> to go 150 miles, and you'd be destroying the batteries.
> 
> That said, it was a lot closer than I expected, so if there was even a
> downwards slope of a few percent, they might be able to do it.
> 
> And yeah, the magnetic shocks make sense, if you could get big enough
> magnets. I don't know how they'd help range, though.
> 
> -Morgan LaMoore
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Magnetic-Shock-Absorber---EV-tf4578896s25542.html#a13079765
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:17:39 -0700
From: "David Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>
> So, how much energy would we get if we converted all of the suspension
> movement into electricity? I suspect the total would be trivial on
> most roads, as these components would get uncomfortably hot generating
> anything over a couple hundred watts/hour. Best-case, you'd be lucky
> to add 1% to an EV's range - not what most would consider money
> well-spent.

I'm not sure. Magnetic damping effects decrease exponentially with
decreasing speed. I know from reading Tesla Motors blogs that they had
to put a big water bag in the passenger's seat with tubes running to
each of the shocks to keep them cool while they did the accelerated
wear tests. While the there would be some energy capture I doubt that
it would be very much but I don't have any data to back that up. I
know that passing them through a coil hooked up to a galvanometer
caused a sharp needle deflection but the duration was much shorter and
the magnet had to be in very close proximity to the coil, ie. the coil
couldn't be too large compared to the size of the magnet. Some, if not
all, of the shake flashlights use a neodymium magnet. I have one with
a single white led and what looks like a 1F capacitor  where 60sec of
shaking gives about 20min of usable light (meaning it is getting a
little dim but you could still walk down a dark path ok.)


-- 
David D. Nelson

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:20:19 -0700
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive
        throughs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

> How does Oregon deal with out of state vehicles with running lights? I
> frequently drive down to Portland and haven't had any issues so maybe
> they just leave us alone.
>
> David Nelson

Given the number of cars with replacement headlamps and running lights
("fog" lamps) that blind me, I can say that Oregon does nothing to
discourage them... or perhaps they are just that popular. When you are
blinded on a freeway, with a full median strip, by cars from the opposite
direction, they are certainly noticeable. Or, perhaps, the cops haven't
gotten around to them, yet. (Much like you can't have not-factory tinted
windows... but some of the cell phone companies can put advertising over
their back and side windows.)

We have a problem with our commuter van. When we start it up, the headlamps
come on, but possibly not at full brightness. I have noticed a few rigs
running the highway that apparently suffer the same problem. If you don't
pull on the headlamp switch, apparently the tail lights don't come on... at
least in this type of Ford van. That's a very stupid way to design a
vehicle.

Given that many EVs are MCs (3 wheelers) in Oregon, running (head) lights
are required at all times. I haven't seen any enforcement (yet) of
"rotating" headlamps or tail lamps that flash. I'm thinking of installing
them on my car. (Press on the brakes and the center light comes on... with a
flashing outer ring. It is *very* noticeable... and I've lost 2 cars in 10
years to idiots not noticing my flashers, when I'm stopped on the freeway.)



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:23:17 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=ISO-8859-1;     DelSp="Yes";
        format="flowed"

<<< Force of air drag times distance equals energy required
.5*Cd*A*rho*v^2*d
The lowest Cd I found for a Dodge Caravan was .35, and the lowest area
was 30 square feet.
.5*.35*30ft^2*1.3kg/m^3*(55mph)^2*150miles
25.7 kWh >>>

Rolling resistance with half a ton of lead is nearly that much, unless  
you do some very thorough optimizing.

<<< Energy in 16 T-105's (using 6 hour rate even though he's at 3 hour
rate, ignoring Peukert's effect):
16*6V*205Ah
19.7 kWh >>>

About 5% less at 3hr rate.



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:23:49 -0700
From: "David Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

> it would be very much but I don't have any data to back that up. I
> know that passing them through a coil hooked up to a galvanometer
> caused a sharp needle deflection but the duration was much shorter and

I meant that the needle deflection was much shorter in duration than
using a much weaker bar magnet. It is almost like the magnet is so
strong that the fields don't stray very far and yet holding one in
your hand over a meter away from a running overhead projector caused
the magnet to vibrate.

-- 
David D. Nelson

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:35:40 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=ISO-8859-1;     DelSp="Yes";
        format="flowed"

<<<< <<< Energy in 16 T-105's (using 6 hour rate even though he's at 3 hour
rate, ignoring Peukert's effect):
16*6V*205Ah
19.7 kWh >>>

About 5% less at 3hr rate. >>>

Actually, I was calculating for T-145, Peukert's exponent of 1.14 and  
244Ah. These gave about 6.2kW x 3hrs. For comparison, my pickup needs  
20kW to maintain 60mph.



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 22:42:05 -0600
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I was working on a solar car project years ago and we briefly looked 
into active suspensions. The magnetic approach was much heavier than 
the piezo-electric approach.

If you think about it, any damping action in the suspension is a loss 
of energy. Thus, the lowest rolling resistance is achieved with the 
stiffest suspension. We figured that if you captured the losses, yyou 
could have it both ways; a soft suspension that was easy on tires and 
helped handling, and we could capture the losses.

Bill D.

At 10:23 PM 10/6/2007, you wrote:
> > it would be very much but I don't have any data to back that up. I
> > know that passing them through a coil hooked up to a galvanometer
> > caused a sharp needle deflection but the duration was much shorter and
>
>I meant that the needle deflection was much shorter in duration than
>using a much weaker bar magnet. It is almost like the magnet is so
>strong that the fields don't stray very far and yet holding one in
>your hand over a meter away from a running overhead projector caused
>the magnet to vibrate.
>
>--
>David D. Nelson
>
>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 23:53:20 -0500
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 10/6/07, mosesmo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm using 16 T-145's not 105's sorry.
>

Sorry, that was a mistype. I used the numbers for T-145s.

Look it up if you want: T-145s are rated at 244Ah over 20 hours or
205Ah over 6 hours.

If you're assuming you discharge at 6V, that's 16*6*205=19.7kWh.

However, you're doing a deeper discharge than they are, so you may get
more power from them.

Let's say that the normal 205Ah is for discharging from 2.4 to 1.75
V/cell, and you're discharging to 1.67V/cell. Assuming capacity scales
linearly with voltage (probably over optimistic), you'd get
205*(2.4-1.67)/(2.4-1.75)=231Ah. Let's say that the average discharge
voltage is halfway between min and max, (2.4+1.67)/2=2.03V Knock of 5%
for a fast discharge, and you get:

2.03*231*16*.95=21.4kWh

Now, let's do a weight estimate of your van.

curb weight = 5600 lbs
battery weight = 71*16 = 1100 lbs

Let's say you took 2000 pounds of ICE parts out. Your new weight is:

5600+1100-2000=4700 lbs

Assume your tires have Crr=0.015; again, this is overly optimistic.

Friction force is:
F=Crr*g*m=313.4N

Drag force is:
F=.5*Cd*A*rho*v^2=383.3N

Force your batteries can provide at 55mph for 150 miles:
F=(21.4kWh)/(150 miles)=319N

Clearly, your batteries can't haul you 150 miles. However, they can if
you're going down hill. Gravity has to provide the force your
batteries can't:

(383.3+313.4-319) N = 377.7N
F/(mg) = hill grade = 0.018

So, if you were on average going down a 2% slope over the 150 miles
(and all of my generous assumptions hold), you could make it. Even at
2% downhill slope, gravity is doing more to power your car than your
drivetrain is! Of course, it hurts you just as badly when going
uphill.

The lesson is: gravity is a powerful force (especially if your van
weighs over 2 tons).

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 21:53:41 -0700
From: "David Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive
        throughs
To: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,        "Electric Vehicle Discussion
        List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

> We have a problem with our commuter van. When we start it up, the headlamps
> come on, but possibly not at full brightness. I have noticed a few rigs
> running the highway that apparently suffer the same problem. If you don't
> pull on the headlamp switch, apparently the tail lights don't come on... at
> least in this type of Ford van. That's a very stupid way to design a
> vehicle.

I agree. At least in my Corolla and Silverado, when it gets dark
enough everything comes on automatically.

On a related topic, I'm thinking of wiring the headlight on my Gizmo
to the key switch or putting a switch between the headlight switch and
my digital speed-o-meter. In the daylight on a clear day I can barely
see the numbers if I have the headlight on because the speed-o-meter
goes into night brightness mode.

> Given that many EVs are MCs (3 wheelers) in Oregon, running (head) lights
> are required at all times. I haven't seen any enforcement (yet) of
> "rotating" headlamps or tail lamps that flash. I'm thinking of installing
> them on my car. (Press on the brakes and the center light comes on... with a
> flashing outer ring. It is *very* noticeable... and I've lost 2 cars in 10
> years to idiots not noticing my flashers, when I'm stopped on the freeway.)

I have a smart blink on my Gizmo to blink the brake light. I also
changed the upper (normally 3rd) brake light to one with high
intensity LEDs that is designed for sticking on the back of a pickup
shell. I was unable to see the factory installed LED brake light
because the beam was too focused and was aimed up.

-- 
David D. Nelson

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328



------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:57:30 -0700
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Open source controller design
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

As you know from all the things you HAVE DONE, the key is in the 
details, but you don't and really can't provide them without a confirmed 
working design.
Given the amount of time you spend on the list, take 10% of it and get a 
working controller design to share.

I think the same standard to others to do something and not just talk 
applies equally to the list gods as to the newbies, that is just fair 
and honest.

Jack

Lee Hart wrote:
> Jack Murray wrote:
> 
>>Lee, when will you put your words to practice,
>>not tell others how to do things, but do it yourself?
> 
> 
> I *have* built controllers! Most other parts of EVs as well (chargers, 
> DC/DC converters, instrumentation, battery managment systems, etc.)!
> 
> I am trying to give Dan (and others) the benefit of my experience, to 
> save them time and money on things that don't work. Whenever my advice 
> says that something won't work, I also try to provide guidance on how to 
> change it or what to add to fix the problem.
> 
> And, I am building EVs myself, and helping others build theirs.
> 




------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 01:03:11 -0400
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 6 Oct 2007 at 22:59, Morgan LaMoore wrote:

> Energy in 16 T-105's (using 6 hour rate even though he's at 3 hour
> rate, ignoring Peukert's effect):
> 16*6V*205Ah
> 19.7 kWh

He's using T-145 batteries.  But let's be realistic here and use the 3hr 
rating of 188ah for them (from Uve's calculator).  Now we have only 18kWh.  

>.5*.35*30ft^2*1.3kg/m^3*(55mph)^2*150miles
> 25.7 kWh

I have the wrong degree for this, so I may be blowing smoke - but aren't you 
mixing your units here?  You have kg/m^3 but you use miles for the distance. 
 I can't seem to get the same figures you did; my numbers are wildly 
different.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 22:04:57 -0700
From: "David Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] How to dim LED turn signal indicators
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I have a Gizmo EV which uses green LEDs for the turn signal
indicators. The brightness is perfect for daytime driving but they are
extremely blinding at night. What would be a relatively simple way to
dim them for night use? Would a resistor in the line do it? If so, I
could then hook up a switch which could short across the resistor for
daytime use. The blinkers are run by a smart-blink system which I
think is used on motor-cycles and/or mopeds. I also believe these are
on the 12V side of my DC-DC converter.

-- 
David D. Nelson

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328



------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:30:16 -0500
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette amps
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I think you're being really overly critical. I'm decently impressed
with the vehicle.

Better batteries vs more batteries - at the present, the time-vs-miles
may be about equal on Lithium and Lead, but most people can't afford
the up-front costs of Lithium. I think it's perfectly reasonable to
use Lead-Acid batteries; plus, he can upgrade to Lithium later if/when
he can afford it; it's not like the vehicle will only work on Lead.

3 wheels vs. 4 wheels - there's nothing intrinsically wrong with
3-wheel designs. 4 wheels are more popular for cars, but that may just
be what we're used to. Most solar car teams use 3 wheel designs - not
because they have to, but because they can get lower drag with 3
wheels. You call 3 wheel cars "freakshows", but you give no reason
other than that they're not "normal". And 3 wheel vehicles have one
huge advantage over 4 wheel designs for custom cars: it's much easier
to get them registered with the department of transportation of most
states.

drive-by-wire - I (and my roommate) think drive by wire is awesome. If
done well, there's no reason for it to be unsafe or unresponsive. Cars
have hundreds or thousands of failure points; he's just removing some
while adding others. Personally, I'd rather do the engineering for a
drive-by-wire type system than a rack-and-pinion system.

Yes, you're right. This car isn't practical for the average consumer.
That doesn't mean it's a "horrible design", though. I'm sure the owner
will love it, and I would like to build something like that for myself
someday - a lightweight, 3-wheeled, aerodynamic EV.

Also, I think that 20A at 25mph is pretty amazing. If it's that
efficient on Lead, what will it be like when/if you upgrade to
Lithium?!?! When batteries are a large part of vehicle weight like
this, you will probably see some truly amazing gains if/when you
switch.

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:34:58 -0500
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Que sera, was Open source controller design
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Aha! I think you've hit the nail on the head! Since they got the
> information for free, it is of no value. Since it has no value, there is
> no point in heeding it :-)

Hey, some of us newbies appreciate appreciate advice from those more
experienced than us! We aren't all working on the "I'm right, you're
wrong" approach!

> I prefer to think of my information as "priceless"! :-)

I don't know about "priceless", but certainly worth way more than I'm
paying you (or than I could afford).

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 00:45:47 -0500
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Open source controller design
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As you know from all the things you HAVE DONE, the key is in the
> details, but you don't and really can't provide them without a confirmed
> working design.
> Given the amount of time you spend on the list, take 10% of it and get a
> working controller design to share.
>
> I think the same standard to others to do something and not just talk
> applies equally to the list gods as to the newbies, that is just fair
> and honest.

So he's reading the list and giving advice in his free time, and he
should just drop 10% of that and do more engineering work like his day
job just for our benefit? It's one thing for people to tell you to do
your own work; it's another for you to tell him to do a ton of work
that only we benefit from.

I think it's pretty nice of him to look over Dan's design and provide
advice; now you expect him to do the entire design for us? Would you
expect him to debug it for us, too? That would take a lot more than
"10% of the time he spends on EVDL."

Maybe he made a schematic but didn't update it after debugging. I know
I've done that before - make a schematic, build it, change some things
so it works. Now that it works and you think it's just for you, you
don't want to go back and update the schematic. It's even worse if you
know of things that should be changed but haven't done it yet.

Yeah, I'd like to see some of his DC-DC or controller designs. I'd
like to see them as-is, though, without him putting tons of effort
into touching them up and making them work. And I don't feel like he
has a responsibility to post them or anything, but I get that
impression from you.

If you don't have the experience with electronics, you can always use
the 'trial and error' method to figure out what circuit protection you
need. That can get expensive, though.

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 02:33:09 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Fw:  Open source controller design
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=response


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Open source controller design


>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Open source controller design
>
>
>> Lee Hart wrote:
>>
>>>I *have* built controllers! Most other parts of EVs as well (chargers,
>>>DC/DC converters, instrumentation, battery managment systems, etc.)!
>>>
>>>
>> then why haven't you made them public?
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> ___Gees! Louise!! I Mean Dan<g>! Lee is so damn busy working on other 
>> stuff. Bat Regs, other projects, to put food on his table as he is a 
>> family guy. Not to mention trying as time and money permits, to get the 
>> Sunrise into a car, kit or whatEVer to get it on the road.As you 
>> controller do it yurself wannabees, it isn't easy. I talked to Lee about 
>> it long an' dragged out driving with Lee to Fla to Tow back to MN the 
>> Sunrise Body ,last year. I'm NOT an EV electronic geru, but just asked 
>> questions as you are. The Devil is in the DETAILS. You need to make a 
>> failsafe control board to run the Heavy Duty electrical stuff, which you 
>> can get out of a catalogue. This is stock industrial electronics. YOU as 
>> Electrical genious, gotta suit down and THINK of what EVer could go 
>> wrong, failure mode. So it will"Scram" the controller; Like IF the Go 
>> pedal is pressed down when you key on? So the damn car doesn't take off! 
>> IF the Igbits or whatEVer yur using, decide, or mis -comuntate, IF that 
>> is the right term? lock ON and away you go, with direct drive! 
>> Embarrising in a parking lot! Great lawsuit stuff!I had Lee trapped in 
>> the CAR, no escape<g>!It's a looong way from Tampa to St Cloud 
>> MN(Sartell).They sorta blend together.
>
>     I used to run Generous Electric E-60 locomotives, built in the 70's, 
> they used to "Lock on" now and again,your  guess, we engineers got pretty 
> darn fast at dropping the pantograph, and spinning wheels, that woulda 
> turned Wayland green with envey! Of course these lokies wern't in the 
> general public's hands. Good Thing! We "drivers" lived with this quirk, 
> but G.E. Shoulda FIXED that issue,early on, but like Ford with the flaming 
> gas tanks in the Pintos' it was cheeper to pay a few burned people off 
> than FIX them! The gas tanks I mean<g>!We used to be glad IF the E-60 made 
> a trip WITHOUT something going haywire!Giving rise to our service mark; 
> "Getting Halfway there is Fun" Apologies to Cunard Lines<g>!
>
>    Point I'm making, think of ALL the possable failures, and build that 
> board to "Think " for you, shut things down as needed. Oh it can be done, 
> not denighing that, just isn't easy, ask Otmar.Well, I take that back, 
> DON'T ask Otmar! He's pretty godamn BUSY, at this point. HE did the 
> engineering. Hell! Why should he just give himself away. Does Toyota 
> publish the design details of the Prius?How deep are yur pockets? Ya BUY 
> the tech, that SOMEBODY spent sleepless nights designing. Dan, what do YOU 
> do for a living? I'm not meaning to diss you. Are you an EE? A plumber, 
> Carpenter, Buss or truck driver? You wouldn't expect your employer to say" 
> just drive the next few runs for me for nothin', truck's out there ready, 
> or build somebodies deck, here's the wood, YOU put it together . "Bus is 
> out at dock 7, gassed up, drive it to Sandy Eggo" and not pay ya the miles 
> that the contract with the UTU sez you will get. IF it is a Union outfit?
>
>    OK I'm getting carried away as I often do with Transportation stuff, 
> but in defence of Lee. He has gone WAY beyond the call of duty, as to 
> giving out electrical info. You would hafta pay big bux to a electrical 
> consulting ferm, for his expertise. He is only one man, a very human and 
> lovable guy, when ya actually meet him.A shining star on the List. If I 
> knew a FRACTION of what he knows. Hell! I probably could FIX my #$%^ 
> controller when it shits out<g>!
>
>     Hammer and torch shade tree mechanic here.Slipping into my flameproof 
> suit.
>
>       Bob 



------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 23:39:57 -0700
From: "David Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] 3 watt LED vs Incandescent photo comparison link
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

There was a discussion a while ago about the 3 watt 1157 bulbs from
http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm. I have two of their tail
lights. One is the 3W luxeon version the the other is the 24 led bulb
which I put in the brake light socket. This one has leds point to the
sides so that they shine on the reflector thus giving a larger red
spot rather than the pinpoint of light like the 3 watt single led
does. I posted a night time photo at http://2003gizmo.blogspot.com/.

-- 
David D. Nelson

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1328



------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 01:53:11 -0500
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2007 at 22:59, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>
> > Energy in 16 T-105's (using 6 hour rate even though he's at 3 hour
> > rate, ignoring Peukert's effect):
> > 16*6V*205Ah
> > 19.7 kWh
>
> He's using T-145 batteries.  But let's be realistic here and use the 3hr
> rating of 188ah for them (from Uve's calculator).  Now we have only 18kWh.

Yeah, I stated that I was making some assumptions that really enlarge
the capacity. Your number is probably much more realistic.

> >.5*.35*30ft^2*1.3kg/m^3*(55mph)^2*150miles
> > 25.7 kWh
>
> I have the wrong degree for this, so I may be blowing smoke - but aren't you
> mixing your units here?  You have kg/m^3 but you use miles for the distance.
>  I can't seem to get the same figures you did; my numbers are wildly
> different.
>

I don't have an Aero degree either, but I studied drag in physics
recently. The equation is F=1/2*Cd*A*rho*v^2, and energy is force
times distance (for a constant force). I just put everything into the
equation in the units I had. I used Google Calculator and let it do
the conversions for me. I used this string:

.5*.35*30ft^2*1.3kg/m^3*(55mph)^2*150miles in kW hours

and it returns the result. My calculator can also do this, but it's
easier to type it into Google.

If I wanted to, I could have converted everything to SI first:

30 ft^2 * (1609 m/5280 ft)^2=2.79m^2
55mph * (1609m/mile)/(3600s/hour)=24.6m/s
150miles * (1609m/mile) = 241350m
.5*.35*2.79m^2*1.3kg/m^3*(24.6m/s)^2*(241350m)=92705000J=92.7MJ
92.7MJ/(3.6MJ/kWh) = 25.75kWh

It's just easier to let a computer handle units for you. Plus, my
memorized conversion factors and intermediate rounding introduced an
error of 0.2% (not that that really matters; my original figures
aren't that accurate anyways).

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:56:15 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette amps
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

whenever I say something that rocks the boat we waste so much time on me 
defending myself.

Morgan LaMoore wrote:

>I think you're being really overly critical. I'm decently impressed
>with the vehicle.
>  
>
I said it was a good build.

>Better batteries vs more batteries - at the present, the time-vs-miles
>may be about equal on Lithium and Lead, but most people can't afford
>the up-front costs of Lithium. I think it's perfectly reasonable to
>use Lead-Acid batteries
>
lead is very reasonable for that very reason. but he said he was 
building the car of the future.

>3 wheels vs. 4 wheels - there's nothing intrinsically wrong with
>3-wheel designs. 
>
yes there is. stability

>drive-by-wire - I (and my roommate) think drive by wire is awesome. 
>
so do I. it is just that much more complicated to make as safe

>Yes, you're right. This car isn't practical for the average consumer.
>That doesn't mean it's a "horrible design", though. I'm sure the owner
>will love it, and I would like to build something like that for myself
>someday - a lightweight, 3-wheeled, aerodynamic EV.
>  
>
I'm sure it's quite good fun at times :) but I stand by my points

>Also, I think that 20A at 25mph is pretty amazing. If it's that
>efficient on Lead, what will it be like when/if you upgrade to
>Lithium?!?! When batteries are a large part of vehicle weight like
>this, you will probably see some truly amazing gains if/when you
>switch.
>  
>
efficiency have well known causes. less contact to the road is one way 
to achieve that. but 4 small wheels should be just as efficient 2 or 3 
bigger ones.
3 wheels is simply not a good design for a car. we wont be helping 
anyone by lying to ourselves.

Dan



------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2007 23:07:35 -0800
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] S10 racing at Firebird
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Dennis,
The Drivetrain section of the SC rules also states you must use the stock 
rearend housing too.  Got a Ford 9" stuffed in that
stock Chevy housing ;-)

Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.

STREET CONVERSION CLASS RULES
...
Section 4: Drivetrain
...
Heavy duty and or modified rear axles, heavy duty and or modified front drive 
transaxles, and heavy duty and or modified rear
transaxles assemblies allowed so long as the stock housing is retained.

> -----Original Message-----
> Dennis Berube wrote:
>
> **1925 motor amps,260 volts,825 battery amps,210 battery volts
> What are you going to do with the "big motor" that is currently in the
> works?
> **The truck presently has the motor located in the tranny tunnel with just a
> little in the engine compartment.I want to run the truck in the sc nedra class
> but as I read the rules the motor must remain in the stock location.So I will
> now be racing in Rod Wildes class instead of John Waylands class.But with the
> long motor I can race in both classes at most of the volt limits since the
> rest of the truck meets the sc specs.
> Dennis Berube



------------------------------

Message: 33
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 00:07:26 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette amps
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=ISO-8859-1;     DelSp="Yes";
        format="flowed"

<<< Also, I think that 20A at 25mph is pretty amazing. If it's that
efficient on Lead, what will it be like when/if you upgrade to
Lithium?!?! When batteries are a large part of vehicle weight like
this, you will probably see some truly amazing gains if/when you
switch. >>>

2.4kW is good, but "amazing"? Maybe for a NEV, but not a lot of  
listees consider 25mph safe on typical public roads. 45mph is more  
useful, but it's even more important to be able to do safe highway  
maneuvers at that speed - the power needed for a small (4-wheel) car  
would be ~7kW (less with attention to detail).

A ZAP Xebra would be pushing its luck to go 45mph, but might be a good  
benchmark for comparison.



------------------------------

Message: 34
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 02:18:30 -0700
From: Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Open source controller design
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Dan Frederiksen trolled:
>> then why haven't you made them public?
>>     
Jack Murray trolled:
> Given the amount of time you spend on the list, take 10% of it and get a
> working controller design to share.
>   
Lee,

This should go without saying, but thank you for your advice to me and 
your contributions to the EV community as a whole.

Please don't let the trolls bother you.

Thanks again,
Cory Cross



------------------------------

Message: 35
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 03:24:32 -0700
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] high pitched noise
To: EVDL <EV@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

There is a fairly high pitched "white noise" type sound that comes
from my EV when it is moving. Just in case the sig isn't attached to
this plain text message:

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html

As you can see, DCP 450 controller, Todd DC-DC converter, etc....

Perhaps this noise is normal and coming from the controller - wouldn't
surprise me with all those amps running around.

What surprises me is that when I turn the headlights on, the noise
diminishes noticeably (almost disappears), so now I'm wondering if it
isn't coming from the DC-DC converter...

Thoughts?

Mike


-- 
Michael Mohlere
My EV: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html



------------------------------

Message: 36
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 12:33:22 +0200
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] high pitched noise
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

both controller and DCDC is probably based on switchmode electronics 
typically in the 10-20kHz region. maybe less. maybe more.
that might well be what you are hearing
it could be other things but those are certainly usual suspects.
the light affecting it does point to the DCDC yes

Dan

Michael Mohlere wrote:

>There is a fairly high pitched "white noise" type sound that comes
>from my EV when it is moving. Just in case the sig isn't attached to
>this plain text message:
>
>http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html
>
>As you can see, DCP 450 controller, Todd DC-DC converter, etc....
>
>Perhaps this noise is normal and coming from the controller - wouldn't
>surprise me with all those amps running around.
>
>What surprises me is that when I turn the headlights on, the noise
>diminishes noticeably (almost disappears), so now I'm wondering if it
>isn't coming from the DC-DC converter...
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Mike
>
>
>  
>



------------------------------

Message: 37
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:25:04 -0500
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Battery Trailer
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi folks,

Has anyone worked out the math involved with battery 
trailers?  Basically, some idea of how much additional power is going 
to be required due to the added load?

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html

In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme 
position. (Horace) 



------------------------------

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