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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Alternator with Transformers? and treadmill motors
(Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
2. Re: More Than Gross Vehicle Weight, Comments (Bob Rice)
3. Re: More Than Gross Vehicle Weight, Comments (Gerald Wagner)
4. Re: More Than Gross Vehicle Weight (Lee Hart)
5. Re: More Than Gross Vehicle Weight (Zeke Yewdall)
6. Re: Alternator with Transformers? (Lee Hart)
7. Re: More Than Gross Vehicle Weight (Randall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:45:55 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alternator with Transformers? and treadmill motors
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The one I have generates electricity according to the RPM to drive it
at. You just pick the RPM needed for the voltage you want.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Staffanson
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 12:43
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alternator with Transformers? and treadmill motors
Could these be used for voltages as low as 72 volts?
On 10/16/07, Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have plenty of these available for $20 plus $5 shipping in the US.
> 1.5 Hp Continuous duty, 95Vdc, Class N insulation.
> Treadmill duty, 2.65 Hp, 130Vdc, 18Amps, 6700RPM.
> Rod
> --- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I had another idea - permanent magnet treadmill motors can become
> > generators. I bought a 130V treadmill motor for use in my EV to
> > drive the power steering pump. It said on the package that it would
> > generate DC if you spin it. I have yet to try it but it is
> > definitely small enough to fit below the hood. It might only make 5
> > or 6 amps but at least it will charge the pack.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC
> > COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 10:09
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alternator with Transformers?
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > You will have to find a transformer for the specific frequency
> > of the alternator. Using a 60hz one on any other frequency will be
> > catastrophic. It will melt. I was googling rewiring the alternator
> > for high voltage and found this site that sells a 115V or 230V
> > generator.
> >
> > http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/367955.htm
> >
> > Jody
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Chancey
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 7:33
> > To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: [EVDL] Alternator with Transformers?
> >
> > I have had a weird idea nibbling around at the back of my mind, and
> > I was wondering if anyone could help me decide if it is worth
> > investigating. I have a pusher trailer based on a Honda Civic I
> > occasionally use with my EV conversion. While it pushes well and
> > has proven handy for taking the EV to EVents outside my normal
> > range, it doesn't include any method for charging the EV while
> > pushing. In the past the idea of having an alternator rewound to
> > provide high voltage at low current has been suggested, but so far I
> > have been unable to find anyone who can do that. I tried running a
> > small inverter to power my home built 120 VAC charger on the Civic,
> > but when the battery voltage on the EV would drop during
> > acceleration, the inverter would overload and shut down. I was
> > going to try installing a PowerMite 120 VAC generator driven by a
> > belt off the engine, but there simply isn't enough room.
> >
> > Here is my strange idea. Since an alternator really is generating
> > three-phase AC before rectification, could a second one be added to
> > the engine, then the three AC phases be brought out of the
> > alternator
> > and fed to three transformers? Since I am trying
> > to charge a 156
> > Volt pack, what if one used three 120 VAC to say 12 Volt
> > transformers, and fed the AC from the alternator in to the secondary
> > so they stepped up the voltage instead of stepping it down? I
> > assume since the alternator is only 60 Amps, each transformer would
> > only require roughly a 20 Amp secondary. The output of each of the
> > three transformers would then be rectified and combined to proved
> > high voltage DC to the EV. The original voltage regulator would be
> > tweaked by adding a variable resistor and probably a zener to hold
> > the alternator output voltage to make the stepped up output match
> > the pack voltage.
> >
> > So, is any of this possible? Can 60 cycle conventional transformers
> > be back fed the odd frequency from a car alternator? I realize
> > after all this I would be lucky to get more than about 6 or 8 Amps
> > output, but that is more than I have now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike Chancey,
> > '88 Civic EV
> > Kansas City, Missouri
> > EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com My Electric Car at:
> > http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at:
> > http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
> >
> > In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> > position. (Horace)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:49:09 -0400
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] More Than Gross Vehicle Weight, Comments
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi EVerybody;
The GVW thing comes up all the time. As somebody said, pretty much ALL,
or darn near all, EV conversions go over the GVW. My 89 Jetta has a GVW of
3400 lbs. I was surprised!! With 120 volts worth of Golf Cart batteries
aboard I'm just a TAD below, but sending the car out empty, would be
pointless<g>! When I get in, 300 lbs, and the toolie kit in the trunk, I'm
over! With the Rabbit I used Jetta brake drums in back, to beef it up a bit.
Jetta has almost full size drums, though. I guess you COULD beef up the
front discs with GTI brakes? This is a nice feature with Jokes Wagens, the
interchangable parts. With Jetta, a , the front springs are fine, I guess 7
batteries is about the weight of the engine and support stuff? The rear I
went with 700 lbs MORE for the OTHER 13 batteries. YES ,I got my custon
springs from Coil Spring Specialties, in ST Mary's KS. They have done Jettas
before, no problem. I worry most about the wimpy axle stubs that BOLT onto
the wing axle. Geeesh! They look like something that would be used on a
garden tracter, or cart? They aren't enough for this service as well as a
lot of the REST of the Jetta. I can and HAVE run Jetta as a 90 volt car, it
goes OK,Eh, so-so but I like the power, and range, of 120 volts. Before I
got the new rear springs I HAD to lighten the rear end up! A new meaning to
"My ass is draggin'!" So lived with the lighter pack in back. Or, in other
words you could come out close to GVW as a 90 volt or, gasp! A 72 volt Jetta
and be safer? I'm doing a 97 Sentra as a 72 volt car to TRY to be under GVW
for a change. Got 8 batteries in the trunk and the other 4 up front. I'll
probably have to beef up the rear springs? Running an Alltrax controller,
the 72 volt "Axe" Job.Loudest one they make. A Warp 9" Impulse 'Shorty"
motor.It SHOULD be good for somebody with a 10 mile commute? Just don't go
for any NEDRA records!
Comversions are an interum thing, for now. We have to live with being
at GVW or over a tad, for now, I guess. Like driving a train, you plan ahead
and drive a damn site more carefully in your Led Sled!! As somebody asked
over on the Yahell group"Electric Cars for Sale"" Why can't I buy an
EV?"Well?! There AREN'T any! Unless you have VERY deep pockets. Honestly,
now would you put up with your crappy conversion, IF you could buy a
Sunrise, EV-1 Tesla, Rav-4 ,without a second mortgage on yur house!? Or shop
Craig's List(The OTHER List) for a clean used one.
Sooooo, we do conversions, waiting and preying for a demise of the " Best
Govt Oil Money can Buy" It is politics, not technology, for now, stopping
Joe Sixchip (Me, You?) from buying an EV. Who's kidding who, we ALL know
this?You mean you DIDN'T see "Who killed the Electric Car"???GO RENT IT.
NOW!!
So we DRIVE our talk, cobble something together. IF Bob Rice and Dave
Oliveria , right down the road in CT,can build a workable conversion, WHY
can;'t General Murders? Forgetabout them. We have Lee Hart, and Jerry Dycus
on the case. TIME and MONEY here, though.
Just watched, from Net Flix, the History Channel's show, " Manhattan
Project" Fascinating how much MONEY spent, and how quickly(scary!) The Bomb
was built! A Crash Pogram (Program<g>) to do a EV battery, should get the
priority, nowadaze. We would have a plethura of batteri to choose from,
today?!
Rambled long enough.
Seeya
Bob,.......... off for groceries this PM........ doin' Show an' Tell,
as EVer!
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:49:10 -0500
From: "Gerald Wagner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] More Than Gross Vehicle Weight, Comments
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I have been wanting to ask this question for a while and it fits this
subject.
Has the lithium battery price just become obtainable?
Lion Motors http://www.lionev.com/upgrade_to_Lithium.html and
http://www.lionev.com/Battery_Pricing.html seems to me to be close .
My question is this: If I want to replace my 24 X 6 volt lead acid with
Lion's what do I need in the way of Kwh? They show a price of $373 per
Kwh. My S-10 pickup will travel about 35 to 40 miles on less than 100 amp
hours from the 215 amp hour pack.
So at a 144 volt nominal pack that is 14-15 Kwh. Since the Lithium
batteries can be pulled closer to full discharge could I get by with 15 kwh,
about $5600 ?? Then the lighter weight might get me a little better range.
Is this getting close to a reality? Jerry Wagner
On 10/16/07, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> The GVW thing comes up all the time. As somebody said, pretty much
> ALL,
> or darn near all, EV conversions go over the GVW. My 89 Jetta has a GVW of
> 3400 lbs. I was surprised!! With 120 volts worth of Golf Cart batteries
> aboard I'm just a TAD below, but sending the car out empty, would be
> pointless<g>! When I get in, 300 lbs, and the toolie kit in the trunk, I'm
> over! With the Rabbit I used Jetta brake drums in back, to beef it up a
> bit.
> Jetta has almost full size drums, though. I guess you COULD beef up the
> front discs with GTI brakes? This is a nice feature with Jokes Wagens, the
> interchangable parts. With Jetta, a , the front springs are fine, I guess
> 7
> batteries is about the weight of the engine and support stuff? The rear I
> went with 700 lbs MORE for the OTHER 13 batteries. YES ,I got my custon
> springs from Coil Spring Specialties, in ST Mary's KS. They have done
> Jettas
> before, no problem. I worry most about the wimpy axle stubs that BOLT onto
> the wing axle. Geeesh! They look like something that would be used on a
> garden tracter, or cart? They aren't enough for this service as well as a
> lot of the REST of the Jetta. I can and HAVE run Jetta as a 90 volt car,
> it
> goes OK,Eh, so-so but I like the power, and range, of 120 volts. Before I
> got the new rear springs I HAD to lighten the rear end up! A new meaning
> to
> "My ass is draggin'!" So lived with the lighter pack in back. Or, in other
> words you could come out close to GVW as a 90 volt or, gasp! A 72 volt
> Jetta
> and be safer? I'm doing a 97 Sentra as a 72 volt car to TRY to be under
> GVW
> for a change. Got 8 batteries in the trunk and the other 4 up front. I'll
> probably have to beef up the rear springs? Running an Alltrax controller,
> the 72 volt "Axe" Job.Loudest one they make. A Warp 9" Impulse 'Shorty"
> motor.It SHOULD be good for somebody with a 10 mile commute? Just don't go
> for any NEDRA records!
>
> Comversions are an interum thing, for now. We have to live with being
> at GVW or over a tad, for now, I guess. Like driving a train, you plan
> ahead
> and drive a damn site more carefully in your Led Sled!! As somebody asked
> over on the Yahell group"Electric Cars for Sale"" Why can't I buy an
> EV?"Well?! There AREN'T any! Unless you have VERY deep pockets. Honestly,
> now would you put up with your crappy conversion, IF you could buy a
> Sunrise, EV-1 Tesla, Rav-4 ,without a second mortgage on yur house!? Or
> shop
> Craig's List(The OTHER List) for a clean used one.
>
> Sooooo, we do conversions, waiting and preying for a demise of the "
> Best
> Govt Oil Money can Buy" It is politics, not technology, for now, stopping
> Joe Sixchip (Me, You?) from buying an EV. Who's kidding who, we ALL know
> this?You mean you DIDN'T see "Who killed the Electric Car"???GO RENT IT.
> NOW!!
>
> So we DRIVE our talk, cobble something together. IF Bob Rice and Dave
> Oliveria , right down the road in CT,can build a workable conversion, WHY
> can;'t General Murders? Forgetabout them. We have Lee Hart, and Jerry
> Dycus
> on the case. TIME and MONEY here, though.
>
> Just watched, from Net Flix, the History Channel's show, " Manhattan
> Project" Fascinating how much MONEY spent, and how quickly(scary!) The
> Bomb
> was built! A Crash Pogram (Program<g>) to do a EV battery, should get the
> priority, nowadaze. We would have a plethura of batteri to choose from,
> today?!
>
> Rambled long enough.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob,.......... off for groceries this PM........ doin' Show an' Tell,
> as EVer!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:02:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] More Than Gross Vehicle Weight
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
From: Mark Hanson
> Are *any* conversions under the gross vehicle weight rating?
My EVs have all been under the GVWR. This is probably because I have never
tried to load it full of batteries to maximize range.
For example, my 1974 Datsun pickup was rated to carry 1300 lbs, but I only had
twelve 6v golf cart batteries in it (800 lbs). My LeCar was rated for 750 lbs,
and I have 680 lbs of batteries.
The consequence is of course a shorter range (20-40 miles depending on speed).
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:52:28 -0400
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] More Than Gross Vehicle Weight
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 10/16/07, Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Even most electric trucks I've seen, S-10 & Rangers with 65 x 20 =
1300lbs are over their GVW.
---------------
My truck has a rated payload of 1,400lbs... should be enough. Modern
small pickups seem to have lost alot of payload in the US compared to
overseas (the NZ spec Ranger, which is actually a totally different
truck than the US version, has a rated payload of 1,500 KILOGRAMs....,
compared to only 1260lbs for a brand new Ranger. Much stiffer springs
I suspect.
Z
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:53:31 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alternator with Transformers?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
From: "Dewey, Jody R
> You will have to find a transformer for the specific frequency
> of the alternator. Using a 60hz one on any other frequency will
> be catastrophic. It will melt.
An alternator's frequency varies with RPM. The relationship is
Frequency (Hz) = RPM x Poles / 120
Alternators are usually belt driven to spin at about 2.5 times the engine RPM,
and have 8 to 16 poles. For example, if your engine runs at 600-6000 RPM, and
the alternator has 12 poles, then its output frequency varies from 150 to 1500
Hz.
A transformer needs a core suitable for the frequency of operation. The precise
frequency isn't important; a 60 Hz transformer works reasonably well from
50-100 Hz (which is why you frequently see 50/60 Hz transformers). You might
"get away" with running it at 150 Hz, but it would get hot. At 1500 Hz it would
quickly overheat, as Jody said.
The correct transformer for the output of an alternator would be a "high cycle"
transformer, rated at a nominal 400 Hz. These are common in aircraft. The good
news is that a 400 Hz transformer is about 1/4th the size of an equivalent 60
Hz transformer. The bad news is that since they are built for aircraft, they
are outrageously expensive (unless you buy one surplus).
--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:58:50 -0400
From: "Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] More Than Gross Vehicle Weight
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Not to mention brakes??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] More Than Gross Vehicle Weight
> On 10/16/07, Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Even most electric trucks I've seen, S-10 & Rangers with 65 x 20 =
> 1300lbs are over their GVW.
> ---------------
>
> My truck has a rated payload of 1,400lbs... should be enough. Modern
> small pickups seem to have lost alot of payload in the US compared to
> overseas (the NZ spec Ranger, which is actually a totally different
> truck than the US version, has a rated payload of 1,500 KILOGRAMs....,
> compared to only 1260lbs for a brand new Ranger. Much stiffer springs
> I suspect.
>
> Z
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 3, Issue 48
*********************************
