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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Another good showing (ampaynz1)
   2. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (Evan Tuer)
   3. Re: Another good showing (keith vansickle)
   4. Re: Another good showing (M. Barkley)
   5. Re: Tesla and Hyatt.....Plugitin! (Hunter Cook)
   6. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (storm connors)
   7. Re: Tesla and Hyatt.....Plugitin! (Roland Wiench)
   8. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (Hunter Cook)
   9. Re: Tesla and Hyatt (keith vansickle)
  10. Re: Soot and Spin: Two Plug-in Paradoxes (john fisher)
  11. Re: Circuit racing and continuous duty (ProEV)
  12. Re: Tesla and Hyatt ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  13. Re: Another good showing (Glenn Saunders)
  14. Oxygen desigin by Itala electric bicycle review. (Lawrence Rhodes)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:56:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: ampaynz1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another good showing
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


That sounds great. Funny simpsons video from oil producers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fN1SPIJ7v0

or you could go to http://www.myspace.com/tomhanks and see him talk about
his electric conversion and try to convince people.


kenscircus wrote:
> 
> Great Show Rich!
> 
> This is definitely the most effective crowd to work with. We don't have 
> to wait for public acceptance of EV's because of any issues with gas. 
> Show-and-tell presentations of EV's can present a "Cool" factor warming 
> the public to the idea. Hummers are popular because people think they 
> are cool. Presented right, we can create a "Cool" attitude for EV's. 
> The crowds that gather around "Tweety" 
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/983 when we take it to general car 
> shows indicate a hunger for a new cool thing. It really works!
> 
> Now that's what I'm talking about!
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 7:16 am
> Subject: [EVDL] Another good showing
> 
> 
> 
> I spent this past Saturday hanging out with the local vintage VW crowd. 
> One of
> the local import shops was having a BBQ and show-off to let people know 
> about
> their business complete with live music and a trip around the facility 
> in a
> rough, old Formula -V racer (read big kid's go-kart).
> 
> Everyone had been asking me to bring the E-Beetle down so I did and 
> opened it up
> for public consumption. It was a bigger hit than I expected. Everyone 
> loved it,
> especially the racers. The shop is looking to build a 914 conversion 
> for a
> customer and one of the shop owners has an old VW single cab bus/pickup 
> he now
> wants to convert. He says it has a huge "treasure chest" area under the 
> bed that
> he can load up with batteries.
> 
> I think the thing I enjoyed most about the day was the fact that these 
> were
> normal, everyday, non-tree-hugging, gas driving, people but everyone 
> was in
> agreement that the current situation with regard to gasoline driving 
> and fossil
> fuel electricity production cannot stand and they were all interested 
> in trying
> different things to make a difference. The primary shop owner is 
> interested in a
> PV array to offset his huge electric bill and the single cab owner 
> wants to do
> the same at home. The whole thing really gave me a little hope for us 
> as a
> nation. Maybe we're not all oblivious, cell-phone yakking, Ford 
> Expedition
> driving R-tards after all.
> 
> And for the first time in a few thousand miles, I did have a 
> break-down. Of all
> the days for it to happen....
> I did not know this, but the builder of my car joined 2 cables to gain 
> the
> needed length to go from the controller, through the rear firewall, to 
> the last
> battery in the string. The joining lugs were merely wrapped in heavy 
> electrical
> tape and heatshrink and they actually met at the hole in the firewall. 
> Well
> after several thousand miles bouncing around on the highways, the metal 
> edge
> eventually cut through the tape and gave the total pack (-) and nice 
> path to
> discharge through the car's body. I heard a sharp HISSS and cut the key 
> off and
> pulled onto a side road. I re-taped everything just for the day and 
> replaced
> the cable with a one-piece on Sunday. I swear, overall the car's design 
> is sound
> but I'm finding that some of the execution was rushed or he was out of 
> money or
> something.
> 
> Anyway, I preached the gospel and the heathens were pretty receptive. 
> ;-)
> 
> Rich A.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live 
> OneCare!
> http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
> http://mail.aol.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Another-good-showing-tf4711304s25542.html#a13468798
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:57:33 +0000
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

It's not unreasonable for them to try to improve the level of safety
of the humble charging lead.  Let's face it, the existing plugs you
have in the US are pretty terrifying from that point of view, and you
also need to take into account someone tripping over the cable or
damaging it.  Or people using existing outlets that aren't on GFCI
circuits.  So it seems entirely necessary and responsible to provide a
charging station like this.

See the info below about the capabilities of their system.

At least it's conductive charging, and I'm sure that you'll be able to
plug your own vehicle into it, as you can with the Avcon system.
Whether you can opportunity charge the Tesla easily is another
question.

[..]
With Charging, It's Safety First

We're committed to making sure the charging process and the batteries
themselves won't pose a safety issue to you, your passengers, or
anyone stumbling around in your garage.

For starters, the plug on the charging unit only becomes "live" when
it is properly connected to the car and both the charging unit and the
car have "talked" and agreed the connection is safe to allow the
electricity to flow through it. As a backup, the charging connector is
designed such that you cannot touch any metal on the charging pins.

The EVSE in your garage protects against many kinds of faults,
including ground faults, strain on the cable, and the presence of
smoke in your garage. Whenever any fault is detected, charging is
stopped and the cable is deactivated.

[..]

On 10/29/07, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We must love standards- we have so many of them. They probably didn't design
> it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in it too. Or how about a
> standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be plugged in? You'd think
> someone would question the wisdom of yet another unique solution.
>
> On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > storm connors wrote:
> > > What kind of plug will they use?
> > > storm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
> > http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg
> >
> > Bill Dennis
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> Storm
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:11:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another good showing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Ditto for the BugE.  every time I take it out people are always impressed.  
Mine goes fast enough (mabey a little too fast) and far enough to impress 
almost everyone.  Sure there are always folks who want it to be bigger/faster 
and go farther but no body doesn't like the fact that it is electric and any 
who drive it are litterly blown away. With the second generation one I am sure 
it will be even more of a hit



----- Original Message ----
From: ampaynz1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 7:56:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another good showing


That sounds great. Funny simpsons video from oil producers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fN1SPIJ7v0

or you could go to http://www.myspace.com/tomhanks and see him talk about
his electric conversion and try to convince people.


kenscircus wrote:
> 
> Great Show Rich!
> 
> This is definitely the most effective crowd to work with. We don't have 
> to wait for public acceptance of EV's because of any issues with gas. 
> Show-and-tell presentations of EV's can present a "Cool" factor warming 
> the public to the idea. Hummers are popular because people think they 
> are cool. Presented right, we can create a "Cool" attitude for EV's. 
> The crowds that gather around "Tweety" 
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/983 when we take it to general car 
> shows indicate a hunger for a new cool thing. It really works!
> 
> Now that's what I'm talking about!
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 7:16 am
> Subject: [EVDL] Another good showing
> 
> 
> 
> I spent this past Saturday hanging out with the local vintage VW crowd. 
> One of
> the local import shops was having a BBQ and show-off to let people know 
> about
> their business complete with live music and a trip around the facility 
> in a
> rough, old Formula -V racer (read big kid's go-kart).
> 
> Everyone had been asking me to bring the E-Beetle down so I did and 
> opened it up
> for public consumption. It was a bigger hit than I expected. Everyone 
> loved it,
> especially the racers. The shop is looking to build a 914 conversion 
> for a
> customer and one of the shop owners has an old VW single cab bus/pickup 
> he now
> wants to convert. He says it has a huge "treasure chest" area under the 
> bed that
> he can load up with batteries.
> 
> I think the thing I enjoyed most about the day was the fact that these 
> were
> normal, everyday, non-tree-hugging, gas driving, people but everyone 
> was in
> agreement that the current situation with regard to gasoline driving 
> and fossil
> fuel electricity production cannot stand and they were all interested 
> in trying
> different things to make a difference. The primary shop owner is 
> interested in a
> PV array to offset his huge electric bill and the single cab owner 
> wants to do
> the same at home. The whole thing really gave me a little hope for us 
> as a
> nation. Maybe we're not all oblivious, cell-phone yakking, Ford 
> Expedition
> driving R-tards after all.
> 
> And for the first time in a few thousand miles, I did have a 
> break-down. Of all
> the days for it to happen....
> I did not know this, but the builder of my car joined 2 cables to gain 
> the
> needed length to go from the controller, through the rear firewall, to 
> the last
> battery in the string. The joining lugs were merely wrapped in heavy 
> electrical
> tape and heatshrink and they actually met at the hole in the firewall. 
> Well
> after several thousand miles bouncing around on the highways, the metal 
> edge
> eventually cut through the tape and gave the total pack (-) and nice 
> path to
> discharge through the car's body. I heard a sharp HISSS and cut the key 
> off and
> pulled onto a side road. I re-taped everything just for the day and 
> replaced
> the cable with a one-piece on Sunday. I swear, overall the car's design 
> is sound
> but I'm finding that some of the execution was rushed or he was out of 
> money or
> something.
> 
> Anyway, I preached the gospel and the heathens were pretty receptive. 
> ;-)
> 
> Rich A.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live 
> OneCare!
> http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
> http://mail.aol.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Another-good-showing-tf4711304s25542.html#a13468798
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:21:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another good showing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Outstanding, keep up the good work.  By the way, what
is your evalbum listing on the VW?  I'd like to see
some photos, for reference during our VW conversion...
 


--- Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I spent this past Saturday hanging out with the
> local vintage VW crowd. One of the local import
> shops was having a BBQ and show-off to let people
> know about their business complete with live music
> and a trip around the facility in a rough, old
> Formula -V racer (read big kid's go-kart).
>  
> Everyone had been asking me to bring the E-Beetle
> down so I did and opened it up for public
> consumption. It was a bigger hit than I expected.
> Everyone loved it, especially the racers. The shop
> is looking to build a 914 conversion for a customer
> and one of the shop owners has an old VW single cab
> bus/pickup he now wants to convert. He says it has a
> huge "treasure chest" area under the bed that he can
> load up with batteries.
>  
> I think the thing I enjoyed most about the day was
> the fact that these were normal, everyday,
> non-tree-hugging, gas driving, people but everyone
> was in agreement that the current situation with
> regard to gasoline driving and fossil fuel
> electricity production cannot stand and they were
> all interested in trying different things to make a
> difference. The primary shop owner is interested in
> a PV array to offset his huge electric bill and the
> single cab owner wants to do the same at home. The
> whole thing really gave me a little hope for us as a
> nation. Maybe we're not all oblivious, cell-phone
> yakking, Ford Expedition driving R-tards after all.
>  
> And for the first time in a few thousand miles, I
> did have a break-down. Of all the days for it to
> happen....
> I did not know this, but the builder of my car
> joined 2 cables to gain the needed length to go from
> the controller, through the rear firewall, to the
> last battery in the string. The joining lugs were
> merely wrapped in heavy electrical tape and
> heatshrink and they actually met at the hole in the
> firewall. Well after several thousand miles bouncing
> around on the highways, the metal edge eventually
> cut through the tape and gave the total pack (-) and
> nice path to discharge through the car's body. I
> heard a sharp HISSS and cut the key off and pulled
> onto a side road.  I re-taped everything just for
> the day and replaced the cable with a one-piece on
> Sunday. I swear, overall the car's design is sound
> but I'm finding that some of the execution was
> rushed or he was out of money or something.
>  
> Anyway, I preached the gospel and the heathens were
> pretty receptive. ;-)
>  
> Rich A.
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Boo!?Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try
> Windows Live OneCare!
>
http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:35:52 -0500
From: Hunter Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt.....Plugitin!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain

<sarcasm>Right. Please "let them know" so that they can go back and
redesign this extremely complicated government-grant-funded piece of
engineering to use a range plug and completely sidestep all the fancy
safety-minded electronics. Obviously they simply weren't aware of all
our lead-sleds.</sarcasm>

On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 07:37 -0700, keith vansickle wrote:
> I totally agree don't create the plug over.  does
> anyone on this list have any contacts at either
> company.  If so please let them know that there are a
> few thousand electrics on the road that might be able
> to stay a day at a hyatt if there were the right kind
> of charging station.
> 
> 
> --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> > <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 11:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
> > 
> > 
> > > We must love standards- we have so many of them.
> > They probably didn't 
> > > design
> > > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in
> > it too. Or how about a
> > > standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be
> > plugged in? You'd think
> > > someone would question the wisdom of yet another
> > unique solution.
> > >
> > > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> storm connors wrote:
> > >> > What kind of plug will they use?
> > >> > storm
> > >> >
> > >> >  Hi EVerybody;
> > 
> >      As Storm sez; But Of COURSE they will come up
> > ewith yet ANOTHER 
> > standard for car charge plugs!!God forbid that a
> > regular 120 volt outlet 
> > won't do for slow charging! Or a 240 volt range
> > plug? Or, better yet, the 
> > 240 volt ones folks plug their Win -a Bagels in.
> > Those Bus "Campers" ,the 
> > ones that tow a Hummer as a dinghy, MUST run 240
> > volts imput? For the 
> > swimming pool heater, wine celler and promamode deck
> > lighting? THOSE folks 
> > have a standard? Right. At campgrounds and where
> > ships dock<g>?
> > 
> >     I hope Tesla does conductive charging dso us 
> > po'  guyz can cobble 
> > together an adapter so we can charge, too?We
> > couldn't use the stuff that the 
> > EV-1' s did. But MAYBE they could put a lowly 120
> > outlet and range plug on 
> > the charge station?
> > 
> >     Seeya
> > 
> >     Bob
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:22:26 -0400
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I had a VW van with a gasoline heater. There were so many safety interlocks
that it could never be made to produce heat. Rider lawnmowers seem to be
going in the same direction. Scratch your ass and it shuts down. (Literally)
Then the tip guard for the chain saw. Course if you want to do anything
beyond cutting up cordwood, the saw has been rendered useless. Small price
to pay for making it safer? Why not just remove the chain? Very safe then.

I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the US. The
standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.

The GFCI is rarely safer. 2 failures have to occur simultaneously for its
protection to be lifesaving.

The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be missing. Lawyers.

On 10/29/07, Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's not unreasonable for them to try to improve the level of safety
> of the humble charging lead.  Let's face it, the existing plugs you
> have in the US are pretty terrifying from that point of view, and you
> also need to take into account someone tripping over the cable or
> damaging it.  Or people using existing outlets that aren't on GFCI
> circuits.  So it seems entirely necessary and responsible to provide a
> charging station like this.
>
> See the info below about the capabilities of their system.
>
> At least it's conductive charging, and I'm sure that you'll be able to
> plug your own vehicle into it, as you can with the Avcon system.
> Whether you can opportunity charge the Tesla easily is another
> question.
>
> [..]
> With Charging, It's Safety First
>
> We're committed to making sure the charging process and the batteries
> themselves won't pose a safety issue to you, your passengers, or
> anyone stumbling around in your garage.
>
> For starters, the plug on the charging unit only becomes "live" when
> it is properly connected to the car and both the charging unit and the
> car have "talked" and agreed the connection is safe to allow the
> electricity to flow through it. As a backup, the charging connector is
> designed such that you cannot touch any metal on the charging pins.
>
> The EVSE in your garage protects against many kinds of faults,
> including ground faults, strain on the cable, and the presence of
> smoke in your garage. Whenever any fault is detected, charging is
> stopped and the cable is deactivated.
>
> [..]
>
> On 10/29/07, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We must love standards- we have so many of them. They probably didn't
> design
> > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in it too. Or how about a
> > standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be plugged in? You'd
> think
> > someone would question the wisdom of yet another unique solution.
> >
> > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > storm connors wrote:
> > > > What kind of plug will they use?
> > > > storm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
> > > http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg
> > >
> > > Bill Dennis
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> > Storm
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:30:25 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt.....Plugitin!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

You can get standard electrical connector and plug adapters from a 
electrical supply house or from a RV parts dealer.  These are molded 
together connector and plugs, where you can plug any combination of plugs 
rated at a higher amp into a receptacle that is rated at a lower amp.

The circuit breaker supplying the circuit or power outlet protects  this 
circuit, so you have to take care of not turning up the battery charger 
current above the rating of the receptacle.

I carry in my EV spare parts box, a complete set of adapters that I can plug 
in my 50 amp EV input cable into a 120V 20A, 240V 20A 3 and 4 wire, 240V 30A 
3 and 4 wire, and 240 50A 3 and 4 wire.

Using a onboard PFC-50 charger, it has a range of 60 to 250 VAC input 
voltage which auto adjust to the voltage.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt.....Plugitin!


> I totally agree don't create the plug over.  does
> anyone on this list have any contacts at either
> company.  If so please let them know that there are a
> few thousand electrics on the road that might be able
> to stay a day at a hyatt if there were the right kind
> of charging station.
>
>
> --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> > <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 11:55 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
> >
> >
> > > We must love standards- we have so many of them.
> > They probably didn't
> > > design
> > > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in
> > it too. Or how about a
> > > standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be
> > plugged in? You'd think
> > > someone would question the wisdom of yet another
> > unique solution.
> > >
> > > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> storm connors wrote:
> > >> > What kind of plug will they use?
> > >> > storm
> > >> >
> > >> >  Hi EVerybody;
> >
> >      As Storm sez; But Of COURSE they will come up
> > ewith yet ANOTHER
> > standard for car charge plugs!!God forbid that a
> > regular 120 volt outlet
> > won't do for slow charging! Or a 240 volt range
> > plug? Or, better yet, the
> > 240 volt ones folks plug their Win -a Bagels in.
> > Those Bus "Campers" ,the
> > ones that tow a Hummer as a dinghy, MUST run 240
> > volts imput? For the
> > swimming pool heater, wine celler and promamode deck
> > lighting? THOSE folks
> > have a standard? Right. At campgrounds and where
> > ships dock<g>?
> >
> >     I hope Tesla does conductive charging dso us
> > po'  guyz can cobble
> > together an adapter so we can charge, too?We
> > couldn't use the stuff that the
> > EV-1' s did. But MAYBE they could put a lowly 120
> > outlet and range plug on
> > the charge station?
> >
> >     Seeya
> >
> >     Bob
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> 



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:33:25 -0500
From: Hunter Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain

While I follow your point regarding chainsaw tip guards et. al.
(although it's not like guardless saws aren't still readily available) I
have to wonder how closely you think this relates to the issue at hand.
I don't see any particular loss of functionality in this charging stand
due to its safety features; do you? I mean, it's not like it requires
more effort or attention on the part of the user...in fact, it should be
an improvement vs. using a simple bare-conductor plug. I think you have
an unlike analogy here.

On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 12:22 -0400, storm connors wrote:
> I had a VW van with a gasoline heater. There were so many safety interlocks
> that it could never be made to produce heat. Rider lawnmowers seem to be
> going in the same direction. Scratch your ass and it shuts down. (Literally)
> Then the tip guard for the chain saw. Course if you want to do anything
> beyond cutting up cordwood, the saw has been rendered useless. Small price
> to pay for making it safer? Why not just remove the chain? Very safe then.
> 
> I don't see anything "terrifying" about the existing plugs in the US. The
> standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any safer.
> 
> The GFCI is rarely safer. 2 failures have to occur simultaneously for its
> protection to be lifesaving.
> 
> The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be missing. Lawyers.
> 
> On 10/29/07, Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > It's not unreasonable for them to try to improve the level of safety
> > of the humble charging lead.  Let's face it, the existing plugs you
> > have in the US are pretty terrifying from that point of view, and you
> > also need to take into account someone tripping over the cable or
> > damaging it.  Or people using existing outlets that aren't on GFCI
> > circuits.  So it seems entirely necessary and responsible to provide a
> > charging station like this.
> >
> > See the info below about the capabilities of their system.
> >
> > At least it's conductive charging, and I'm sure that you'll be able to
> > plug your own vehicle into it, as you can with the Avcon system.
> > Whether you can opportunity charge the Tesla easily is another
> > question.
> >
> > [..]
> > With Charging, It's Safety First
> >
> > We're committed to making sure the charging process and the batteries
> > themselves won't pose a safety issue to you, your passengers, or
> > anyone stumbling around in your garage.
> >
> > For starters, the plug on the charging unit only becomes "live" when
> > it is properly connected to the car and both the charging unit and the
> > car have "talked" and agreed the connection is safe to allow the
> > electricity to flow through it. As a backup, the charging connector is
> > designed such that you cannot touch any metal on the charging pins.
> >
> > The EVSE in your garage protects against many kinds of faults,
> > including ground faults, strain on the cable, and the presence of
> > smoke in your garage. Whenever any fault is detected, charging is
> > stopped and the cable is deactivated.
> >
> > [..]
> >
> > On 10/29/07, storm connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > We must love standards- we have so many of them. They probably didn't
> > design
> > > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit in it too. Or how about a
> > > standard 110v plug so a block heater could also be plugged in? You'd
> > think
> > > someone would question the wisdom of yet another unique solution.
> > >
> > > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > storm connors wrote:
> > > > > What kind of plug will they use?
> > > > > storm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
> > > > http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg
> > > >
> > > > Bill Dennis
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> > > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> > > Storm
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> 
> 
> 



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:43:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

This thread, like the unnecessary re-design of a
perfectly acceptable current transfer device, is a
waste of time.  The millions of plugs on dryers/motor
homes/ranges and other electrical devices are fine. 
why improve something that does not need it.  spend
the money and creativity on building electric
transport.
 
--- Hunter Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> While I follow your point regarding chainsaw tip
> guards et. al.
> (although it's not like guardless saws aren't still
> readily available) I
> have to wonder how closely you think this relates to
> the issue at hand.
> I don't see any particular loss of functionality in
> this charging stand
> due to its safety features; do you? I mean, it's not
> like it requires
> more effort or attention on the part of the
> user...in fact, it should be
> an improvement vs. using a simple bare-conductor
> plug. I think you have
> an unlike analogy here.
> 
> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 12:22 -0400, storm connors
> wrote:
> > I had a VW van with a gasoline heater. There were
> so many safety interlocks
> > that it could never be made to produce heat. Rider
> lawnmowers seem to be
> > going in the same direction. Scratch your ass and
> it shuts down. (Literally)
> > Then the tip guard for the chain saw. Course if
> you want to do anything
> > beyond cutting up cordwood, the saw has been
> rendered useless. Small price
> > to pay for making it safer? Why not just remove
> the chain? Very safe then.
> > 
> > I don't see anything "terrifying" about the
> existing plugs in the US. The
> > standard outlet in London doesn't appear to be any
> safer.
> > 
> > The GFCI is rarely safer. 2 failures have to occur
> simultaneously for its
> > protection to be lifesaving.
> > 
> > The idea of cost/benefit analysis seems to be
> missing. Lawyers.
> > 
> > On 10/29/07, Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > It's not unreasonable for them to try to improve
> the level of safety
> > > of the humble charging lead.  Let's face it, the
> existing plugs you
> > > have in the US are pretty terrifying from that
> point of view, and you
> > > also need to take into account someone tripping
> over the cable or
> > > damaging it.  Or people using existing outlets
> that aren't on GFCI
> > > circuits.  So it seems entirely necessary and
> responsible to provide a
> > > charging station like this.
> > >
> > > See the info below about the capabilities of
> their system.
> > >
> > > At least it's conductive charging, and I'm sure
> that you'll be able to
> > > plug your own vehicle into it, as you can with
> the Avcon system.
> > > Whether you can opportunity charge the Tesla
> easily is another
> > > question.
> > >
> > > [..]
> > > With Charging, It's Safety First
> > >
> > > We're committed to making sure the charging
> process and the batteries
> > > themselves won't pose a safety issue to you,
> your passengers, or
> > > anyone stumbling around in your garage.
> > >
> > > For starters, the plug on the charging unit only
> becomes "live" when
> > > it is properly connected to the car and both the
> charging unit and the
> > > car have "talked" and agreed the connection is
> safe to allow the
> > > electricity to flow through it. As a backup, the
> charging connector is
> > > designed such that you cannot touch any metal on
> the charging pins.
> > >
> > > The EVSE in your garage protects against many
> kinds of faults,
> > > including ground faults, strain on the cable,
> and the presence of
> > > smoke in your garage. Whenever any fault is
> detected, charging is
> > > stopped and the cable is deactivated.
> > >
> > > [..]
> > >
> > > On 10/29/07, storm connors
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > We must love standards- we have so many of
> them. They probably didn't
> > > design
> > > > it so a standard 3 prong dryer plug would fit
> in it too. Or how about a
> > > > standard 110v plug so a block heater could
> also be plugged in? You'd
> > > think
> > > > someone would question the wisdom of yet
> another unique solution.
> > > >
> > > > On 10/27/07, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > storm connors wrote:
> > > > > > What kind of plug will they use?
> > > > > > storm
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Possible picture of Tesla Charging station:
> > > > >
>
http://www.teslatalk.com/gallery/20060821/tesla14-l.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Dennis
> > > > >
> > > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
> > > > http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
> > > > Storm
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:46:03 -0700
From: john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Soot and Spin: Two Plug-in Paradoxes
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Interesting discussion.
I think the LAT and other outlets completely missed the most important car at 
Tokyo - the Toyota 1/x

http://www.jawfish.net/wordpress/archives/169

This car (admittedly no knowledge of how close to production - 3? 5 years? 
never?) is the hypercar that Amory Lovins 
started pushing for years ago. It combines new manufacturing techniques and new 
materials to get the mass down to a 
level where energy efficiency is reasonable.

As for the stop-and-go pollution of the PHEVs, it wouldn't be a problem in my 
driving cycle if I had the Volvo shown at 
the Frankfurt show

http://www.jawfish.net/wordpress/archives/160  (about halfway down)

I would do my daily driving under 100% battery power, and only use the ICE for 
out-of-town. And the GHG are reduced 
greatly no matter what your cycle.

John



Marc Geller wrote:
> Soot and Spin: Two Plug-in Paradoxes
> 
> http://www.plugsandcars.blogspot.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:12:47 -0400
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Circuit racing and continuous duty
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Hi Tom,

> I'm wondering how suitable the available EV technology is for circuit
> racing?

It has been over one hundred years since an electric car last won a 
sanctioned close circuit road race against ICE competition but the Electric 
Imp is getting close to breaking the gas car dominance. We have a couple of 
second place finishes to our credit.

> Is there anything other than the A123 Systems offering that can take a 20
> minute discharge with regular high current regen and discharge spikes?

We are running 100 amp-hr Kokam HP batteries. http://www.kokamamerica.com/ 
These are amazing large format lithium polymer cells. They are rated for 500 
amps continuous, 800 amps peak. They are rated to recharge at 200 amps I.E. 
in about half an hour if you can find a big enough charging source. We are 
regenning at 300 amps without problem and hope to go higher as we build 
experience with the system.

For road racing, capacity is the key. On the road, the car uses about 250 
W-hrs per mile. On the track, we use about 1,250 W-hrs per mile. With our 35 
kW-hr pack, we can drive around 180 miles on the road but must turn down our 
power to finish a 35 mile race.

<Would an AC system
> with both a water cooled motor and controller be more appropriate? 
> Obviously
> regen would help keep the battery pack size down.

Running all wheel drive and AC motors is designed to allow us to make full 
use of regenerative braking. We have a 'Regen' pedal in place of the clutch 
pedal. It gives the car controllable progressive regen. We need even more 
stopping power on the track, so left foot controls regen and the right foot 
blends in some friction braking. Range gains are track and driving style 
depended but range improvement is from between 7% to 20% with 15% being 
about average.

There is a ton of technical information on our website www.ProEV.com and we 
are always willing to answer questions. Basically the EV technology is 
getting to the point that we can race with gas cars. It is not cheap and it 
is not 'plug and play'. There is a lot to learn and it is an exciting 
challenge. But we will be winning races soon.

Cliff
www.ProEV.com







------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:34:06 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla and Hyatt
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

keith vansickle wrote:
> This thread, like the unnecessary re-design of a
> perfectly acceptable current transfer device, is a
> waste of time.  The millions of plugs on dryers/motor
> homes/ranges and other electrical devices are fine. 
> why improve something that does not need it.  spend
> the money and creativity on building electric
> transport.

I would think that the NEMA WD 6 document would obviate any need to 
redesign electrical interfaces.  Non-NEMA interfaces would just slow 
acceptance down or lock customers in.

WD 6 is free for download: http://www.nema.org/stds/wd6.cfm

Just my .02.  IANAE.



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:01:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another good showing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

That's cool, but Tom hanks showing off his $70K Scion conversion won't really 
accomplish that much.  AC Propulsion already has a waiting list for those 
anyway.


----- Original Message ----
or you could go to http://www.myspace.com/tomhanks and see him talk
 about
his electric conversion and try to convince people.





------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:47:05 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Oxygen desigin by Itala electric bicycle review.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"





http://www.sfeva.org/wiki/Scooters-Cycles#Lawrence_Rhodes_Oxygen_Design_by_Itala_electric_bicycle_Review



------------------------------

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