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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Optima Trials and Tribulations ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   2. Re: Vicor DC-DC for Sparrow (John G. Lussmyer)
   3. Re: choosing a vehicle question (Roland Wiench)
   4. Re: Optima Trials and Tribulations (Ralph Merwin)
   5. Re: where to buy 250 volt plugs for making extension cord
      (Roland Wiench)
   6. Re: New questions on series DC motor (Jeff Major)
   7. Re: Etek Motor Sevcon Controller Regenerative Operation
      (Jeff Major)
   8. Re: where to buy 250 volt plugs for making extension cord
      (David Roden)
   9. Perspective... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  10. Re: Storing power in a sheet of paper (Rod Hower)
  11. Re: Lead-Acid AGM Battery early death--fixable? (Lee Hart)
  12. Re: Arg! (Brian Staffanson)
  13. Re: E-Gauge Peukert Correction question (Brian Staffanson)
  14. Re: Etek Motor Sevcon Controller Regenerative Operation
      (Zeke Yewdall)
  15. clutchless coupling with cushion (Osmo S.)
  16. Re: E-Gauge Peukert Correction question (damon henry)
  17. Re: Storing power in a sheet of paper (GWMobile)
  18. Re: clutchless coupling with cushion (David Dymaxion)
  19. Re: Optima Trials and Tribulations (Roger Stockton)
  20. Re: article: Subaru doubles the battery range on its      electric
      car concept (Zeke Yewdall)
  21. Re: Battery Selection (Zeke Yewdall)
  22. Re: clutchless coupling with cushion (David Hrivnak)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:33:58 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Trials and Tribulations
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Yep!

We have a set of Genesis XE-40s for Tweety on order from AeroBatteries!

WooHoo!

Ken

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/983





-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 5:52 pm
Subject: [EVDL] Optima Trials and Tribulations



Well, my luck with Optima batteries continues.
History so far:
Bought 13 Optima BlueTops.
2 were bad and had to be shipped back for replacement.
The 2 replacements showed up, and 1 of those was bad.
The replacement for that showed up - and the shipper had dropped it.
The replacement for that finally showed up (after an odd delay in
shipping) and seems to be good.

I did a few light cycles of the new battery on the bench to bring it to
close to the rest of the pack. (only had about 6 cycles on the pack so
far!).

Note that the Sparrow has sat with the BRB pressed, and one battery out
with cables disconnected for a month.  The only load on the batteries
were some MKIIC regs.
I hooked in the new battery, and turned on the PFC40.  9 of the regs
immediately lit up.  Of the 4 "low" ones, the new one and 2 others were
about .2v below the reg point.  So I've put those on a small charger to
top them off.
The problem is the 4th low battery.  It was QUITE low.  Like at 13V or 
so.
So I put 12A charger on it. (Standard car battery charger).  Set to AGM
and 12A charge rate.  Charger said the battery was at 51%.
2 hours later, it's at 65%.  3 hours it's still at 65%.

AARRGGHH!!!

_______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 06:35:00 -0800
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vicor DC-DC for Sparrow
To: Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,    Electric Vehicle Discussion
        List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Joe Smalley wrote:
> I believe you can use a very small 12 volt battery. Even a 10 pack of AAA
> NiCd cells should have enough capacity to hold up the eMeter during change
> over.
>   
Possible, but a hassle, as well as another thing to fail at an 
unexpected time.
> It is also possible to have both the Vicor and Iota connected to the 12 volt
> system at the same time. Plug one in before you unhook the other to make
> sure the EMeter does not get cleared. You could build some sort of interlock
> box to make sure one comes on before the other goes off.
>   
Umm, the whole point here is that the Vicor is dead.
WHY would I bother installing an IOTA otherwise?



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:38:38 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] choosing a vehicle question
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello John,

The vehicles I pick, either ICE's or for a conversion to a EV, is the ones 
that you be able to replace parts on that vehicle 30 to 50 years from now. 
These type of vehicles is the type that can be modified to any configuration 
you want.  You can even gut the whole works and install any type of panels, 
glass, weather stripping, suspension systems, braking systems and interiors.

The indications I use is to page through car magazines,  vehicle parts 
listings and  maintenance manuals that show you ease of maintenance and how 
long it takes to replace a item, plus what it cost. There is car magazines 
that is specific to one vehicle.

If the replacement part or item can only be replace by the original 
manufacture, that may cost 8 times then it should, then I stay way from that 
vehicle, no matter if it's a ICE or something else.

Another indication is that the high quality after markets will not list 
certain years of vehicles that they will not handle any parts for.  It 
because people do not want that type of vehicle.

You can go through a listing of parts of equipment starting in the 50's and 
go up to the present time.  For each type of vehicle, they may be years that 
everybody seems to skip, so that the vehicle I will not choose.

Go to a news stand that sells magazines, and see if your vehicle is listed. 
Page through some car magazines and see if any of them list the vehicle you 
are looking at.

Here are some sources:

Hemmings Motor News                      www.hemming.com
Performance Suspension Technology        www.p-s-t.com
Air Ride Technologies                    www.ridetech.com
JEGS High Performance                        jegs.com
Summit Performance                           summitracing.com

National Parts Depot - Must call 1-800-874-7595 to request a catalog that is 
specific to the vehicle which will send it to you free.

A catalog and/or magazine that may be specific to that one vehicle, If there 
is none, that I stay away from that vehicle.

I tend to stay with the classic type of cars, because more people tend to 
buy more parts for these and these companies will handle original 
manufacture items if you want to restore to a concurs condition (exact 
condition as it left the factory) or you can get a a reproduction that in 
some cases are better then the original.

Then on the EV side, look for EV kits from Electro Auto, EV Source, EV 
parts, EV America and many others to see what vehicles the kits are design 
for.

Roland






> John Downs wrote:
> > I'm also in the process of deciding which chassis to use for my first
> >  conversion.

> > we want the car for in town use... designing it for 35 mile round
> > trips at freeway speeds and the relatively flat roads

> > our first choice was a *volvo 240* with 144 volts but i've been
> > unable to find a single volvo 240 that has been converted


> > our second choice is a 1996-2001 saturn s series 4 door  with 120
> > volts.

> These have been used for a number of good conversions. Finding room for
> everything seems to be the main challenge. Being lighter, it will cost 
> less.
>
> > third option is a VW cabriolet <1993 with 108 - 120 volts, ,but it
> > has no power steering, no vacuum needed for breaks and it's a
> > convertible and there are plenty of kits available and it would be
> > fun to drive; but they are not as easy to find in ok shape with a
> > roof that doesn't leak and its not a 4 door, and has only 4 seats
>
> The advantage here is just that lots of them have been converted, so
> there are kits available that make it almost a "cookbook" project.
>
> > Am I crazy to think that I, being some what mechanically inclined and
> > motivated, could complete an EV conversion that will work reliably
> > and not be something too complicated for her to use daily for
> > shopping and taking kids to and from. 



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 06:16:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Trials and Tribulations
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

John G. Lussmyer writes:
> 
> Well, it wasn't a full 24 hours, but I checked it this morning, about 18 
> hours off charge.
> 1-12.76
> 2-12.76
> 3-12.76
> 4-12.73
> 5-12.75
> 6-12.64
> 7-12.91
> 8-12.77
> 9-12.78
> 10-12.69
> 11-12.76
> 12-12.89
> 13-12.72

John,

Note that none of your batteries are "fully charged" yet!  They should
read 13.1v or so when fully charged.  They should hold that voltage for
days, so resting overnight wouldn't affect the readings much.

Bummer about the DC/DC!

Ralph



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 08:10:39 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] where to buy 250 volt plugs for making extension
        cord
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>,     "EV group,
        MAEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: EVDL <EV@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Michael,

It depends the number of poles, what voltage, ampere, type of material the 
plug and connector is made out that may be plated brass, is it watertight, 
can run a vehicle over it without damage, have straight in box lug 
connections and a strain relief grip that even a 20 amp size connector will 
accept a 1 inch diameter No. 6 AWG multi strand power cord.

I buy my cord sets from a whole sale electrical supply house for my EV that 
is a inline plug and connector which is a nylon water tight 4 wire 4 pole 30 
amp twistlock type made by Daniel Woodhead, that cost me back in 2000 about 
$56.00 for the set. They had to order it, because it was not aa standard 
stock item.

I just got done breaking this plug down, and remove contacts for cleaning 
and polishing.  Should be good for another 10 years.

I now tend to buy a lot of electrical items from Home Depot, (so do a lot of 
other electrical contractors), because they may handle a larger volume of 
some items which I can get it for the same or even cheaper then the 
electrical supply house.

There are different time factors for many types of plugs and receptacles. 
Even if it listed as a 20 amp plug, it may be only design to pull 1.5 amp 
continuous, which is normal use for a residential in bedrooms and living 
rooms.

For kitchens we may have to use a 3 to 5 amp continuous rating and in shops 
we may have to use a heavy duty set, that a 20 amp receptacle and plug set 
can take 16 amps continuous. These types of the industrial grade or hospital 
grade type, that will accept eight No. 10 stranded copper wire in a heavy 
duty box lugs which have feed thru leads.

These industrial grade which is needed for a circuit that pulls 15 amps and 
must withstand a 5 lb pull out of the plug and may cost up to $20.00 at a 
whole sale electrical house.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV group, MAEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "EVDL" <EV@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:27 AM
Subject: [EVDL] where to buy 250 volt plugs for making extension cord


> Where is the best place (on-line, I assume) to purchase 250 volt plugs
> to connect to the bare end of a suitable extension cord/wire? I just
> paid $10 at home depot for one, and I thought it was quite a
> rip-off!!!
>
> Thx,
>
> -- 
> Michael Mohlere
> My EV: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:17:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New questions on series DC motor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


Hi Rick,

Comments inserted:

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> First thank you everybody for answering my dumb
> questions.
> My first is on a motor rated at 24 volts and 200
> amps. I am going to try and run 72 volts and
> want to know if  I should run 12 volts on the field
> or the 72 volts.

No.  A series motor means the armature (A1 & A2) is
connected in series with the field (S1 & S2).  So, for
example, S1 and A1 are connected together, then S2 and
A2 are connected to the 72 volt source.

> My second is does the field current change with the
> load on the motor?

Yes, in the series motor, the armature and field
current are the same, and depend on the load.

> My last is can you check the condition of insulation
> in motor with meter?

Yes, but should not be necessary.  You can use a
simple ohm meter and check resistance from terminals
to motor case.  Should be a very large resistance.  If
it is a very low resistance, like a few ohms, then
there may be a ground in the motor.  Motor shops use a
device called a megger to do this, which will apply a
high voltage and read the megohms.

Hope this helps.

Jeff M

> Rick Prentiss


__________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 07:34:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Etek Motor Sevcon Controller Regenerative
        Operation
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


Hi Rick,

I use Sevcon 4 quadrant controllers with separately
excited motors and they work well.  Down to low speed
and are configurable to braking torque and therefore a
generator current limit, I think.  I see no reason I
could not use one for a generator.  I have considered
this, but have not done it yet.

I have no experience with the PM controller.  You
should be able to get the manual for it.

Beware, I am not sure you can get very good voltage
control in generator mode.  So I am not sure how well
this would work charging batteries over a long period.
 Regen on my vehicles is just for a few seconds and
never completely charges the battery.  You may need
some sort of regulator circuit.

Regards,

Jeff M



--- Rick Willoughby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I have a couple of questions concerning the
> regenerative mode of operation
> with an Etek motor in combination with a Sevcon
> 4-quadrant controller.
> 
> My reason for the questions is to assess the
> suitability of the motor as a
> generator for a wind turbine.
> 
> Using a 48V system, what is the slowest RPM that the
> motor can achieve
> useful charging current.  For example will it still
> be able to produce 20A
> at say 600rpm into a 48V battery.
> 
> The other question concerns the current limit.  Is
> it possible to set the
> current limit in regenerative mode so it does not
> exceed say 50A.
> 
> I am also interested in comments on these units from
> anyone actually
> operating them in 4-quadrant mode in vehicle
> applications.  Are there any
> particular concerns or detail to be aware of?
> 
> Rick W. 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:53:05 -0500
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] where to buy 250 volt plugs for making extension
        cord
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 5 Nov 2007 at 8:27, Michael Mohlere wrote:

>  I just
> paid $10 at home depot for one, and I thought it was quite a
> rip-off!!!

That's actually not too bad.  These are not exactly mass-market items.  I'm 
a bit surprised that HD and Lowe's even sell them.  I guess maybe they're 
used enough on big power tools, compressors, and such that there's at least 
some demand.  But they'll never sell in the same quantities as 125v 15a 
connectors.

BTW, a good quality Hubbell connector will probably cost even more than 
that.  It will also probably last the life of your EV (and then some).

You may be "spoiled" by the cheap (often imported) mass-market extension 
cords with molded connectors.  These are worth about what you pay for them.  
A good use for them is to cut the ends off and use the wire to make your own 
good EV power cables.  Flexible cable gotten this way is often quite a bit 
cheaper per foot than what you'd pay in similar quantities at the hardware 
store.  Check the voltage rating and make sure they're UL approved first, 
however.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:48:57 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Perspective...
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At work last week I got a chance to work on a 54KW light dimmer for 
studio lighting. The dimmer is built much like an EV motor controller 
except much simpler. The main difference is the load is lots of big 
lights instead of a motor, and the dimmer doesn't have to product the 
PWM chopper signal. The AC is already there, supplied via 480 volts 
three phase on 750 circular mill cables with 400 amp fuses. All the 
dimmer has to do is turn on at the desired fraction of the, already 
existing, waveform for the desired output.

The interesting thing about all this is perspective. This very simple 
54KW dimmer is built in a seven (7) foot tall 19 inch wide rack and 
cost about a hundred thousand dollars.

Just though you might find this interesting.

Ken

________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:00:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Storing power in a sheet of paper
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2280




------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:45:27 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lead-Acid AGM Battery early death--fixable?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

David Roden wrote:
> No matter what you do, it's unlikely that you'll ever get full
> capacity from it again.

I agree; this is the likely outcome.

However, if you chronically under-charge a lead-acid battery, you never
properly equalize the charge between cells. This happens if you never
charge over about 2.25v/cell (13.5v for a 12v battery). You can then
wind up with a cell that there is nothing wrong with it except that it's
at 50% SOC when the rest are at 100%. A long slow equalizing charge will
fix this, and the battery is fine again.

But more often, the user doesn't know that this condition is present. He
also has nothing to limit how deeply he discharges that battery with
the less-charged cell. So, he discharges until that 50% cell goes below
0% and reverses before he quits loading it. Now the weak cell is truly
damaged, and will never recover.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:15:48 -0700
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Arg!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Paul, you are correct.  It is a super.  Maybe converting my super wasn't
such a good idea, for practical points.  But it is what I have.  Thanks for
the suggestions.  Somebody else told me to check thesamba.com.  Maybe, I can
implement these ideas when I have more funds and time...

Brian

On 11/2/07, Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> '74 Beetle or Super Beetle? The shake is known mostly with Super
> Beetles (and much older king and link pin Beetles.)
>
> For the Super you need to use wheels with stock offset or more
> positive. Many after market wheels do not have enough positive offset
> (front wheel drive offset.) The front suspension must be in good
> shape mechanically, no worn bushings, and properly aligned. The
> wheels and tires need to be dynamically balanced, static balanced is
> not good enough. Lastly, balance is so critical that you should check
> the lug bolts to make sure they are the same weight. If its is a
> Super Beetle the extra weight will likely make it more sensitive but
> the wheel offset is usually the biggest issue.
>
> Paul Gooch
>
> On Nov 2, 2007, at 8:30 AM, Brian Staffanson wrote:
>
> > You sound like you have a similar experience that I had a few weeks
> > ago, in
> > my little 74 VW beetle.  I had taken it on several small journeys
> > around my
> > neighborhood.  Then I decided to see if it would do the trip to
> > school,
> > which is 14 miles away.  I decided that I would go about half way,
> > and then
> > return.  Well, my car at around 55 mph, has a shake in the front end.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:20:10 -0700
From: "Brian Staffanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] E-Gauge Peukert Correction question
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I ask this because it doesn't seem that the commercial E-meter does all of
what I would like it to do.  Nothing quite does.  But I guess I don't need
to collect all of the information all of the time.

thanks,
Brian

>
>
> > It seems in my poor overcrowded memory, it was once talked about an
> > open-source emeter.  I have tried to find it in the archives, but
> > have not had much luck.  Does anyone remember this?
>
> It's been discussed, and a number of people have worked on them. It
> seems that they discover it's a harder problem than they thought, so it
> gets shelved, or only partially implemented, or becomes a commercial
> product that is just as expensive as the E-meter.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:57:35 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Etek Motor Sevcon Controller Regenerative
        Operation
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Typical DC wind generators do not include regulation in the generator
controller.  It is usually a separate diversion controller (which may
or may not be physically integrated into the same controller, but
schematically it is separate).

Z

On 11/5/07, Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> I use Sevcon 4 quadrant controllers with separately
> excited motors and they work well.  Down to low speed
> and are configurable to braking torque and therefore a
> generator current limit, I think.  I see no reason I
> could not use one for a generator.  I have considered
> this, but have not done it yet.
>
> I have no experience with the PM controller.  You
> should be able to get the manual for it.
>
> Beware, I am not sure you can get very good voltage
> control in generator mode.  So I am not sure how well
> this would work charging batteries over a long period.
>  Regen on my vehicles is just for a few seconds and
> never completely charges the battery.  You may need
> some sort of regulator circuit.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
> --- Rick Willoughby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a couple of questions concerning the
> > regenerative mode of operation
> > with an Etek motor in combination with a Sevcon
> > 4-quadrant controller.
> >
> > My reason for the questions is to assess the
> > suitability of the motor as a
> > generator for a wind turbine.
> >
> > Using a 48V system, what is the slowest RPM that the
> > motor can achieve
> > useful charging current.  For example will it still
> > be able to produce 20A
> > at say 600rpm into a 48V battery.
> >
> > The other question concerns the current limit.  Is
> > it possible to set the
> > current limit in regenerative mode so it does not
> > exceed say 50A.
> >
> > I am also interested in comments on these units from
> > anyone actually
> > operating them in 4-quadrant mode in vehicle
> > applications.  Are there any
> > particular concerns or detail to be aware of?
> >
> > Rick W.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:49:11 +0200
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] clutchless coupling with cushion
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I would appreciate your comments about the best way to make a  
cushioning coupler - by retaining the original clutch springs

http://www.electric-lemon.com/files/images/Coupler.jpg

or by using some sort of lovejoy coupling with rubber cushion:

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/content.aspx?id=206

?

My neighbour just had a clutch failure in his ICE: one of the springs  
came off. How common is this? And obiously the spring system has a  
limited lifespan (near the bottom of the page):

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/clutch/index.html

The rubber donut in a lovejoy coupler propably looses its flexibility  
gradually. I didn?t find any information about this from the  
manufacturer though.

And how important this cushioning feature is anyway? Anyone have had  
tranny failure or other problems because of a solid coupler?


Thanks!
Osmo



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 18:16:10 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] E-Gauge Peukert Correction question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"


Have you checked out Victor's E-vision yet?  He solicited a lot of input from 
this list first then went out and designed a beautiful new meter.  Oh yeah, it 
costs even more than an E-meter :-( but that did not keep me from putting in an 
order for one.  You find after doing this for a while that there are definitely 
things worth spending money on, and a great meter has made it up towards the 
top of my list.

http://www.metricmind.com/evision.htm

damon

> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:20:10 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] E-Gauge Peukert Correction question
>
> I ask this because it doesn't seem that the commercial E-meter does all of
> what I would like it to do. Nothing quite does. But I guess I don't need
> to collect all of the information all of the time.
>
> thanks,
> Brian
>
>>
>>
>>> It seems in my poor overcrowded memory, it was once talked about an
>>> open-source emeter. I have tried to find it in the archives, but
>>> have not had much luck. Does anyone remember this?
>>
>> It's been discussed, and a number of people have worked on them. It
>> seems that they discover it's a harder problem than they thought, so it
>> gets shelved, or only partially implemented, or becomes a commercial
>> product that is just as expensive as the E-meter.
>> --
>> Ring the bells that still can ring
>> Forget the perfect offering
>> There is a crack in everything
>> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>> --
>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:18:19 -0800
From: GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Storing power in a sheet of paper
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"

Very interesting. Here is the text.


  Rensselaer News [ rpi-pda ]

  News  > Current Press Releases For Immediate Release August?13, 2007

  Beyond Batteries: Storing Power in a Sheet of Paper

  Troy, N.Y. ? Researchers at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have 
developed a new energy storage device that easily could be mistaken for 
a simple sheet of black paper.

  The nanoengineered battery is lightweight, ultra thin, completely 
flexible, and geared toward meeting the trickiest design and energy 
requirements of tomorrow?s gadgets, implantable medical equipment, and 
transportation vehicles.

  Along with its ability to function in temperatures up to 300 degrees 
Fahrenheit and down to 100 below zero, the device is completely 
integrated and can be printed like paper. The device is also unique in 
that it can function as both a high-energy battery and a high-power 
supercapacitor, which are generally separate components in most 
electrical systems. Another key feature is the capability to use human 
blood or sweat to help power the battery.

  Details of the project are outlined in the paper ?Flexible Energy 
Storage Devices Based on Nanocomposite Paper? published Aug. 13 in the 
Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences .

  The semblance to paper is no accident: more than 90 percent of the 
device is made up of cellulose, the same plant cells used in newsprint, 
loose leaf, lunch bags, and nearly every other type of paper.

  Rensselaer researchers infused this paper with aligned carbon 
nanotubes, which give the device its black color. The nanotubes act as 
electrodes and allow the storage devices to conduct electricity. The 
device, engineered to function as both a lithium-ion battery and a 
supercapacitor, can provide the long, steady power output comparable to 
a conventional battery, as well as a supercapacitor?s quick burst of 
high energy.

  The device can be rolled, twisted, folded, or cut into any number of 
shapes with no loss of mechanical integrity or efficiency. The paper 
batteries can also be stacked, like a ream of printer paper, to boost 
the total power output.

  ?It?s essentially a regular piece of paper, but it?s made in a 
very intelligent way,? said paper co-author Robert Linhardt, the Ann 
and John H. Broadbent Senior Constellation Professor of Biocatalysis and 
Metabolic Engineering at Rensselaer.

  ?We?re not putting pieces together ? it?s a single, integrated 
device,? he said. ?The components are molecularly attached to each 
other: the carbon nanotube print is embedded in the paper, and the 
electrolyte is soaked into the paper. The end result is a device that 
looks, feels, and weighs the same as paper.?

  The creation of this unique nanocomposite paper drew from a diverse 
pool of disciplines, requiring expertise in materials science, energy 
storage, and chemistry. Along with Linhardt, authors of the paper 
include Pulickel M. Ajayan, professor of materials science and 
engineering, and Omkaram Nalamasu, professor of chemistry with a joint 
appointment in materials science and engineering. Senior research 
specialist Victor Pushparaj, along with postdoctoral research associates 
Shaijumon M. Manikoth, Ashavani Kumar, and Saravanababu Murugesan, were 
co-authors and lead researchers of the project. Other co-authors include 
research associate Lijie Ci and Rensselaer Nanotechnology Center 
Laboratory Manager Robert Vajtai.

  The researchers used ionic liquid, essentially a liquid salt, as the 
battery?s electrolyte. It?s important to note that ionic liquid 
contains no water, which means there?s nothing in the batteries to 
freeze or evaporate. ?This lack of water allows the paper energy 
storage devices to withstand extreme temperatures,? Kumar said.

  Along with use in small handheld electronics, the paper batteries? 
light weight could make them ideal for use in automobiles, aircraft, and 
even boats. The paper also could be molded into different shapes, such 
as a car door, which would enable important new engineering 
innovations.

  ?Plus, because of the high paper content and lack of toxic chemicals, 
it?s environmentally safe,? Shaijumon said.

  Paper is also extremely biocompatible and these new hybrid 
battery/supercapcitors have potential as power supplies for devices 
implanted in the body. The team printed paper batteries without adding 
any electrolytes, and demonstrated that naturally occurring electrolytes 
in human sweat, blood, and urine can be used to activate the battery 
device.

  ?It?s a way to power a small device such as a pacemaker without 
introducing any harsh chemicals ? such as the kind that are typically 
found in batteries ? into the body,? Pushparaj said.

  The materials required to create the paper batteries are inexpensive, 
Murugesan said, but the team has not yet developed a way to 
inexpensively mass produce the devices. The end goal is to print the 
paper using a roll-to-roll system similar to how newspapers are 
printed.

  ?When we get this technology down, we?ll basically have the ability 
to print batteries and print supercapacitors,? Ajayan said. ?We see 
this as a technology that?s just right for the current energy market, 
as well as the electronics industry, which is always looking for 
smaller, lighter power sources. Our device could make its way into any 
number of different applications.?

  The team of researchers has already filed a patent protecting the 
invention. They are now working on ways to boost the efficiency of the 
batteries and supercapacitors, and investigating different manufacturing 
techniques.

  "Energy storage is an area that can be addressed by nanomanufacturing 
technologies and our truly inter-disciplinary collaborative activity 
that brings together advances and expertise in nanotechnology, 
room-temperature ionic liquids, and energy storage devices in a creative 
way to devise novel battery and supercapacitor devices," Nalamasu said.

  The paper energy storage device project was supported by the New York 
State Office of Science, Technology, and Academic Research (NYSTAR), as 
well as the National Science Foundation (NSF) through the Nanoscale 
Science and Engineering Center at Rensselaer.

  About Rensselaer
  Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, founded in 1824, is the nation?s 
oldest technological university. The university offers bachelor?s, 
master?s, and doctoral degrees in engineering, the sciences, 
information technology, architecture, management, and the humanities and 
social sciences. Institute programs serve undergraduates, graduate 
students, and working professionals around the world. Rensselaer faculty 
are known for pre-eminence in research conducted in a wide range of 
fields, with particular emphasis in biotechnology, nanotechnology, 
information technology, and the media arts and technology. The Institute 
is well known for its success in the transfer of technology from the 
laboratory to the marketplace so that new discoveries and inventions 
benefit human life, protect the environment, and strengthen economic 
development.

  News  | Portable Rensselaer

On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 9:00 am, Rod Hower wrote:
> http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2280
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming 
and the melting poles.

www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 19:46:12 +0100 (CET)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] clutchless coupling with cushion
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Porsche used rubber in some of its clutches -- they are generally regarded as 
inferior and replaced with ones with steel springs.

----- Original Message ----
From: Osmo S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 5, 2007 10:49:11 AM
Subject: [EVDL] clutchless coupling with cushion

I would appreciate your comments about the best way to make a  
cushioning coupler - by retaining the original clutch springs

http://www.electric-lemon.com/files/images/Coupler.jpg

or by using some sort of lovejoy coupling with rubber cushion:

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/content.aspx?id=206

?

My neighbour just had a clutch failure in his ICE: one of the springs  
came off. How common is this? And obiously the spring system has a  
limited lifespan (near the bottom of the page):

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/clutch/index.html

The rubber donut in a lovejoy coupler propably looses its flexibility  
gradually. I didn?t find any information about this from the  
manufacturer though.

And how important this cushioning feature is anyway? Anyone have had  
tranny failure or other problems because of a solid coupler?


Thanks!
Osmo

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev




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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 11:00:06 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optima Trials and Tribulations
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ralph Merwin wrote:

> John G. Lussmyer writes:
> >
> > Well, it wasn't a full 24 hours, but I checked it this
> > morning, about 18 hours off charge.
> > 1-12.76
> > 2-12.76
> > 3-12.76
> > 4-12.73
> > 5-12.75
> > 6-12.64
> > 7-12.91
> > 8-12.77
> > 9-12.78
> > 10-12.69
> > 11-12.76
> > 12-12.89
> > 13-12.72
>
> John,
>
> Note that none of your batteries are "fully charged" yet!
> They should read 13.1v or so when fully charged.  They should
> hold that voltage for days, so resting overnight wouldn't
> affect the readings much.

There may not be enough information here to make that conclusion!  John is 
reporting the voltages after about 18hrs rest, and we need to know the voltages 
shortly after charge completion (say 30-60min) to be able to say if the 
batteries were fully charged but have high self-discharge, or if they simply 
weren't fully charged.

Cheers,

Roger.



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:32:55 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Subaru doubles the battery range on its
        electric car concept
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Top speed on my old subaru is about 62 as well..... and I still have
to fill it with gas occasionally  :)   And yes, I have driven it on
1200 mile interstate trips.

Highest speed limit on my 40 mile rt daily commute is 55mph I think.
And that's only for about two miles, most of it is 35mph (everyone
drives 45 to 50).

Z

On 11/4/07, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's cool.  But from what I found, the top speed is about 62 mph.
> What good is 100+ mile range if you can't drive at freeway speeds?  I
> don't know about you, but I definitely don't go more than about 10
> miles on roads with a speed limit less than 70.
>
> -Steven
>
> On 11/3/07, Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Still just a concept, but it's getting better, 200km range on lithium:
> >
> > http://www.gizmag.com/go/8281/
> >
> > --
> > Paul Wujek   ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:55:33 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Selection
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

10kW at 48 volts is only 260AH at 80% DOD, or ~400AH at 50% DOD.  Not
sure what DOD you were looking for.  At your discharge rate, C/10,
puekert won't be a big issue like it usually is with EV banks.  A
standard L-16 is between 350 and 420AH, so it might be a good fit.
T-105's are only 220AH or so -- a little low -- I like reducing the
number of cells if possible, instead of running parallel strings
(twice as many cells to water....).  Deka and Trojan both make L-16's,
though the Deka are a bit cheaper (and lower AH).  Surrette's smallest
battery is also similar to an L-16, about 500AH IIRC, and they have a
bit thicker plates than the standard L-16's, so will handle deep
cycling better -- bit heavier per AH too though.  Not sure if the
500AH ones have the 10 year warranty like the big surrettes do though.
 The big ones are warantied for 3200 cycles at 50% DOD, which is way
better than a golf cart (T105) or floor sweeper (L-16) battery.  But,
you don't really need 1700AH....

Z

On 11/4/07, Rick Willoughby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am after a 10kWh battery for use in a boat.  Battery configured for 48V.
> Weight is not absolutely critical.  Discharge rate will be around 1kW.  The
> battery would be for deep cycle use for a few months each year. It would be
> charged by solar panels and wind turbine.
>
> I  have looked at AGM deep cycle lead/acid batteries and there is a range of
> options in size and possible configurations.  Is there any type of battery
> that would suit the application better than another.   For example would
> golf cart batteries be better than forklift batteries?  Are there any brands
> better than another?
>
> Also are there other types of batteries worthwhile considering based on
> price, efficiency and life?
>
> Rick W.
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Battery-Selection-tf4748841s25542.html#a13579029
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:58:44 -0500
From: David Hrivnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] clutchless coupling with cushion
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have tried to buy some LoveJoy and two other brands of similar couplers and 
they refuse to sell for any application for a car or that carries people  I 
even tried to get one for a tractor with the same result.  If by chance you 
find a supply please contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Thank you

-----Original Message-----
From: Osmo S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 12:49 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] clutchless coupling with cushion

I would appreciate your comments about the best way to make a  
cushioning coupler - by retaining the original clutch springs

http://www.electric-lemon.com/files/images/Coupler.jpg

or by using some sort of lovejoy coupling with rubber cushion:

http://www.lovejoy-inc.com/content.aspx?id=206

?

My neighbour just had a clutch failure in his ICE: one of the springs  
came off. How common is this? And obiously the spring system has a  
limited lifespan (near the bottom of the page):

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/clutch/index.html

The rubber donut in a lovejoy coupler propably looses its flexibility  
gradually. I didn?t find any information about this from the  
manufacturer though.

And how important this cushioning feature is anyway? Anyone have had  
tranny failure or other problems because of a solid coupler?


Thanks!
Osmo

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev




------------------------------

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