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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Kaido Kert)
   2. Curtis throttle input variations? (Eduardo Kaftanski)
   3. Re: LIke I said,  the price is too high sending motor out of
      Florida to get    rebuild.(Tommey Reed) (R. Matt Milliron)
   4. Re: UltraCapacitors EEStor (Dan Frederiksen)
   5. Re: Another maiden voyage. (Roland Wiench)
   6. Re: Curtis throttle input variations? (Eduardo Kaftanski)
   7. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Peri Hartman)
   8. Re: Another maiden voyage. (damon henry)
   9. Re: My experience with Electro Automotive (damon henry)
  10. BugE AMA Charity Celebrity Signing Photos Up (Chip Gribben)
  11. Re: UltraCapacitors (Chris Brune)
  12. Re: More GREAT stuff from LA Auto Show Protests (keith vansickle)
  13. Re: UltraCapacitors (keith vansickle)
  14. Re: Another maiden voyage. (Mike Willmon)
  15. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Lee Hart)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:08:48 +0200
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Nov 18, 2007 10:29 AM, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I may be wrong though, but it is intuitively obvious that
> there is big difference between propeller-generator
> on the roof where otherwise there is no resistance whatsoever,
> and propeller-generator behind the grille where there is
> [almost] the same resistance based on the grille area.
> Air is already in there and slowed the car, may as well do
> some useful job rather than flow around whatever is under
> hood. No?
>
> Victor

No. The intuition is wrong in this case. The air drag is not function
of cross sectional area alone ( grille area ) but also the shape of
the body. You are essentially comparing the air resistance of two
different bodies:
a) air pipe with the grille area cross section, that goes through the
body of the car
b) air pipe with the same cross section, but its plugged ( with loaded
fan ) in the middle

Drag coefficients of such bodies are several times different.
Take a hollow cylinder and hold it out of the window when driving.
Then plug it at one end and try to hold it against the wind, with the
open end facing the wind ...

-kert



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:29:13 -0300
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Curtis throttle input variations?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


So I removed one battery from the string, made 36 volts and tried my new
Curtis.... with a 0-5k pot it works as an on/of switch near the end of
travel, so maybe its not 0-5k what it wants.

Is there a table on what input goes to what Curtis controller? This
one is a 1204-015, 24/36V 275amp.

thanks,

-- 
Eduardo K.            | Hofstadter's Law:
http://www.carfun.cl  | It always takes longer than you expect,
http://e.nn.cl        | even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:16:07 -0600
From: "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LIke I said,        the price is too high sending motor
        out of Florida to get   rebuild.(Tommey Reed)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:42:43 -0600, you wrote:

>Plans heck, I'd like one built to order for the cost of the parts.
>
>I figure anybody making stuff for the EV market ought to be charging going 
>rate for their skills.  The repair shop next to me bills mechanics time at 
>$75 per hour, I don't know what a machinist gets.  I don't expect anybody I 
>don't even know to give me their personal time (or intellectual property) 
>for free.  That wouldn't inspire them to keep at it.
>
>I do agree with the point though that shipping does add a lot.  I'd rather 
>see an EV motor guy get the money than a shipping company.
>
>Marty
  I also agree.  I was ripped off by a local motor company.   I ended
up shipping my motor to Jim Husted.  Lubbock TX to Redmond OR.  He had
my motor's problem ID'ed and fixed within about an hour of receiving
it.  I should have sent it to an EV related person first.  Would have
saved 340 dollars.  Jim cares about EV's and the people who
drive/build them.  I got a much better motor because of that alone.

  R. M. Milliron

1981 Jet Electrica (Ford Escort)  
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
http://hitorqueelectric.com/gallery/v/custom_motors/Hack+vs+Husted/

  This machine had been garaged for 17 years.  I have 
upgraded and made it operable.  Tabitha, my daughter, 
named it, "Pikachu".  It's yellow and black, electric 
and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
    




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:23:22 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors EEStor
To: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,       Electric Vehicle Discussion
        List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

it weighs 1175kg nominally and might actually be lighter as an EV. I 
wont tell you the pound value because you wont learn anything. look it 
up and never use pounds again.
as for the motor, it was not intended to be a highway racer because the 
small lithium pack wont take it very far but based on your numbers of 
your car going 60mph at 80V 120A I figure I should be able to do 
something at for instance 160V 200A or 400A+ for acceleration with a car 
that's only slightly heavier. no?

Dan



Lee Hart wrote:
> From: Dan Frederiksen
>   
>> I don't have an EV yet. I am contemplating a 95 Audi A4...
>> standard DC series motor (maybe ADC 6.7)...
>>     
>
> Glad to hear you are thinking of building something! Your graduate course is 
> about to begin. :-)
>
> What does your Audi weigh? I'd guess around 3000 lbs, which is a bit heavy 
> for a 6.7" motor. OK for low speed around-town driving, but probably too 
> small for freeway speeds.
>
>
> --
> "Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>   



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:46:10 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another maiden voyage.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Damon,

Ok, you did your first baby steps.  Everybody does the first course, driving 
around the block and hope nothing happens.  This is what I did back in 1980 
in my second EV. Then the next time, took it around a four block and keep 
doubling until you get about 5 miles and then recheck the torque on all the 
battery connections, fuse connections, motor connections in the first 5 
miles, then recheck again in 10, 20, and 50 miles.

The battery shrink back will only lose less than 0.5 inch lbs by then but at 
first they can lose 5 inch lbs in the first five miles.

A friend of mind who is a electronic engineer who lives down the street from 
me, built his first EV, a VW Bug with 36 volt battery pack using floor 
sweeper batteries.  Its is a slight up hill grade to my place.  When he got 
to my place on his first ride which is about 5 blocks, one of the battery 
post was arcing slightly.  He only hand tighten it.

It is best to use a inch lb torque wrench with foam pipe insulation slip 
over the handles.  Standard battery brass clamps are rated for 75 inch lbs. 
Even if you think you tighten it by hand until your eye balls pop out, you 
may be only half of that torque rating.

Be sure to use a back up wrench on the bolt head of the battery clamp, so 
you do not too much twisting force on the battery post.

You would not believed the check list I made for my self, which is use to 
check every step of the installation, the estimate time of completion using 
time flow charts, keeping track of orders and supplies, and then perform the 
electrical tests.  I then check off the items I perform and have it verify 
by a second person which acts as a quality control inspector.

Roland



> On Nov 17, 2007 12:45 PM, damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Well, the boy and I took the Datsun out for it's first electric drive 
> > just now. Once I got the motor mounted, the throttle setup, and the 
> > controller installed, I couldn't help but throw 36 volts worth of 
> > batteries from the garage floor under the hood and try it out. 
> > Everything worked, and we headed around the block without incident. 
> > There is still lots of work to do, and my bed is still in the body shop 
> > so I might have to wait a bit on that before I can be done, but waiting 
> > is a lot of what I have been doing up until now, so I'm used to it.  At 
> > least during this wait there is plenty of work for me to do and I've got 
> > another full week off work to do it all :-)
> >
> > damon
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. Join 
> > in.
> > www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:12:58 -0300
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Curtis throttle input variations?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Sun, Nov 18, 2007 at 10:29:12AM -0300, Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
> 
> So I removed one battery from the string, made 36 volts and tried my new
> Curtis.... with a 0-5k pot it works as an on/of switch near the end of
> travel, so maybe its not 0-5k what it wants.
> 
> Is there a table on what input goes to what Curtis controller? This
> one is a 1204-015, 24/36V 275amp.
> 

I tried 0-10k and the same happens. Controller goes from zero to full
output crossing near 5k. I assume its bad.

Any known failure modes that can explain this? Any pointer on where
to look when I crack it open?

thanks,

-- 
Eduardo K.            | Hofstadter's Law:
http://www.carfun.cl  | It always takes longer than you expect,
http://e.nn.cl        | even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:46:45 -0800
From: "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

It seems to me (but what do I know) that if the air turns a fan, that will 
slow down the air stream going through that "deep inside" area which in turn 
will increase the drag across the "front crossection".

Peri Hartman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: 18 November, 2007 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport


> Lee Hart wrote:
>
>> As soon as you put a fan out into the wind, and try to generate any
>> power from that fan, the drag goes up in direct proportion.
>
> Understood, the point was the fan is not outside the front
> grille boundary. What you're saying, air drag changes
> if components under hood get re-arranged.
>
> How much do you thing the Cd drag of a cart changes
> if you install a fan *deep inside* behind radiator?
> There will be some impact but the air already struck
> front crossection and enter inner area. Whether it will
> turn something on its way out or just go out is internal
> to that volume and should not impact Cd that much.
> I may be wrong though, but it is intuitively obvious that
> there is big difference between propeller-generator
> on the roof where otherwise there is no resistance whatsoever,
> and propeller-generator behind the grille where there is
> [almost] the same resistance based on the grille area.
> Air is already in there and slowed the car, may as well do
> some useful job rather than flow around whatever is under
> hood. No?
>
> Victor
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:53:39 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another maiden voyage.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



No pictures yet. I'll add it to the EV album when I'm done. Currently the hood 
and front bumpers are sitting in my house and the bed is still in the shop 
getting prettied up. There are plenty of in progress entries and sites floating 
around. That's too much effort for me. I'm hoping to get it all buttoned up 
this coming week, although I'm traveling for Thanksgiving, and I don't think 
the bed is going to be done, which is a problem since my battery box is going 
in the bed. Still, I should be able to have it all ready so that all I have to 
do is throw the battery box in the bed and connect the plug, then it will be in 
use daily :-)

My wife did get video of us driving it. I first tried starting in second gear 
and that gave me a serious case of the herky jerks, so I switched to 3d. With 
as low as the gearing is on this truck, it looks like it is going to be 
strictly a 3d and 4th gear driver.

damon


> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:46:52 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another maiden voyage.
>
> Congratulations! Do you have pictures, or perhaps an EValbum entry?
>
> Sadly, I am still waiting myself :(
>
> On Nov 17, 2007 12:45 PM, damon henry wrote:
>>
>> Well, the boy and I took the Datsun out for it's first electric drive just 
>> now. Once I got the motor mounted, the throttle setup, and the controller 
>> installed, I couldn't help but throw 36 volts worth of batteries from the 
>> garage floor under the hood and try it out. Everything worked, and we headed 
>> around the block without incident. There is still lots of work to do, and my 
>> bed is still in the body shop so I might have to wait a bit on that before I 
>> can be done, but waiting is a lot of what I have been doing up until now, so 
>> I'm used to it. At least during this wait there is plenty of work for me to 
>> do and I've got another full week off work to do it all :-)
>>
>> damon
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. Join in.
>> www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 16:08:23 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] My experience with Electro Automotive
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"










Ironically Mike, it was looking at a picture of your adaptor plate being 
installed that pushed me over the edge. I saw it and thought it was beautiful, 
especially in contrast to Steve Clunn's homemade steel plate and cutting torch 
job. No offense intended Steve, you do tons of great EV work but I wanted 
something pretty. I already have one thrown together looking EV, my motorcycle, 
and I want this one to at least look OK when setting next to Blue Meanie.

damon


> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:40:16 -0900
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] My experience with Electro Automotive
>
> Ditto your conclusions. Almost word for word my same experiences with them
> last year. Wait, wait, wait, get mad, wait some more, finally get the
> adaptor, get truck on the road, couldn't be more happier :-) Been EV
> Truckin' since.
>
> Mike
>

_________________________________________________________________
Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:44:09 -0500
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] BugE AMA Charity Celebrity Signing Photos Up
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Hey everyone,

Mike Harvey just posted photos of the Autism Speaks charity celebrity  
signing of the custom painted green BugE.

http://www.harveyev.com/cgi-bin/emAlbum.cgi

Just click the AMA link.

The pictures show great details of the BugE and of course the  
celebrities who signed it. Sorry, there wasn't enough time to put in  
captions for the 222 photos we put up, but some of the celebs should  
be recognizable in their street clothes.

Autism Speaks will be auctioning off the vehicle in the coming weeks.  
In the meantime, the vehicle will also be displayed at the next EVS  
conference coming up. Paul Scott of "Plug-In America" will be BugE  
sitting the vehicle until the auction.

Yesterday, on the right coast, I displayed a BugE at the Clean Home  
Open House sponsored by the Chesapeake Climate Action Network.

Chip Gribben
Harvey Coachworks and EV
http://www.harveyev.com










------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 09:25:10 -0800
From: "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

> Do the math: my 16.8F cap has 1.18^7 J of energy stored. 1MJ=0.3kWh
> stored, so 11.8 MJ in my bank contained 3.54kWh of energy.
E = 1/2 * C * V^2, V=375V, so E = 1.18MJ.  not 11.8MJ.
You might have made it down to the end of the track at full acceleration, 
but it would have been tight.
Regards,
Chris Brune

> My power consumption is 180 Wh/mile (@ ~45MPH), so my theoretical range
> (if I can extract all the energy while decaying voltage) is
> precisely 3540/180=19.6 miles - far more than the track length.
> If I discharge to the half of the voltage (~187V) my energy left
> would be 2.96MJ or 0.88 kWh. That means I realistically had
> 3.54-0.88-2.652kWh or 2652/180=14.7 miles range and at 187V the drive
> system still works OK with some room to go still.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:14:49 -0800 (PST)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] More GREAT stuff from LA Auto Show Protests
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Everyone should stop to read these links.  The second
one must be a hoax.  the CEO of GM admits that their
company is happy about destroying the environment and
laying off workers.. Can't be. Ford CEO says he didn't
know their advertising was going to influence
customers??   Steve Are these real??  I am going to go
the the USA Today web site to see??? just blows my
mind... 
--- Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is this SPOOF or TRUTH...
> 
>   A Great Front Page of USA TODAY
> 
> from creative folks at Rainforest Action Network
> understory
> (
>
http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/14/ran-at-the-la-auto-show/
> )
> 
> CHECK THIS OUT  - - a pdf file at:
>  
>
http://understory.ran.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/ffo_usatodayvflow.pdf
> -- 
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
> Day:  206 850-8535
> Eve:  206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web:     http://www.seattleeva.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



      
____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:04:58 -0800 (PST)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I don't know anything about "the math"  but I was at
Woodburn and saw both the burn out and the trip down
the 1/4 mi and return to the pits on only capacitors
so some one doesn't have either the right information
or the right "math" or is this another time when the
math and the reality do not jive
 


--- Chris Brune <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Do the math: my 16.8F cap has 1.18^7 J of energy
> stored. 1MJ=0.3kWh
> > stored, so 11.8 MJ in my bank contained 3.54kWh of
> energy.
> E = 1/2 * C * V^2, V=375V, so E = 1.18MJ.  not
> 11.8MJ.
> You might have made it down to the end of the track
> at full acceleration, 
> but it would have been tight.
> Regards,
> Chris Brune
> 
> > My power consumption is 180 Wh/mile (@ ~45MPH), so
> my theoretical range
> > (if I can extract all the energy while decaying
> voltage) is
> > precisely 3540/180=19.6 miles - far more than the
> track length.
> > If I discharge to the half of the voltage (~187V)
> my energy left
> > would be 2.96MJ or 0.88 kWh. That means I
> realistically had
> > 3.54-0.88-2.652kWh or 2652/180=14.7 miles range
> and at 187V the drive
> > system still works OK with some room to go still.
> >
> > --
> > Victor
> > '91 ACRX - something different
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



      
____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:10:06 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another maiden voyage.
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hey congratulations Damon!!  Your Swiss Cheese motor worked without a flaw I
presume ;-)  I don't figure Jim would let it go outta the shop if it didn't.
So how fast did you go with 36V.  When I finally got my truck road ready it
was 2:00 in the morning.  Didn't have a hood and the wiring wasn't secured
down yet.  But I made two laps around the neighborhood, quiet as a mouse.
It was an EV Grin feeling for sure. And I know you had it too :-)

Keep us updated.  

Mike Willmon

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of damon henry
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:45 AM
To: EV List
Subject: [EVDL] Another maiden voyage.


Well, the boy and I took the Datsun out for it's first electric drive just
now. Once I got the motor mounted, the throttle setup, and the controller
installed, I couldn't help but throw 36 volts worth of batteries from the
garage floor under the hood and try it out.  Everything worked, and we
headed around the block without incident.  There is still lots of work to
do, and my bed is still in the body shop so I might have to wait a bit on
that before I can be done, but waiting is a lot of what I have been doing up
until now, so I'm used to it.  At least during this wait there is plenty of
work for me to do and I've got another full week off work to do it all :-)
 
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.? Join in.
www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev




------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:39:53 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
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        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        
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From: Peri Hartman
> It seems to me (but what do I know) that if the air turns a fan,
> that will slow down the air stream going through that "deep inside"
> area which in turn will increase the drag across the "front
> crossection".

I think your intuitive answer is correct.

It is easy to set up an experiment to verify this or not. Get two small fans 
with PM DC motors (preferably not brushless DC because the electronics will 
mess things up). I predict:

 - the fan draws the most current when moving the most air
   (completely free and open air flow on both inlet and outlet)
 - restricting the airflow reduces current draw
   (for instance, by blocking or restricting either inlet or outlet)

Now, hang the two fans from strings from the ceiling, so they are close but not 
touching, and just a little above your workbench. Place a ruler on the bench, 
with 0" lined up with the fan you will use as your generator (0" is dead 
vertical). Power the first fan; that is your source of wind. I predict the 
generator fan:

 - will spin the fastest, and generate the most voltge with
   no load on it
 - will have the least drag (move the least away from 0") with
   no load on it
 - as you increase the load on the generator fan (with a variable
   resistor or equivalent), the drag increases, i.e. the fan
   swings farther from 0")



--
"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net



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