Send EV mailing list submissions to
        ev@lists.sjsu.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 1/8 mile NEDRA records? (Marty Hewes)
   2. Re: UltraCapacitors (Lee Hart)
   3. Re: 1/8 mile NEDRA records? (Roderick Wilde)
   4. Re: UltraCapacitors (Dominant)
   5. Adaptor Cutting Twice (David Dymaxion)
   6. Re: 1/8 mile NEDRA records? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   7. Re: 1/8 mile NEDRA records? (Roderick Wilde)
   8. Re: 1/8 mile NEDRA records? (Tim Humphrey)
   9. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (Kaido Kert)
  10. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport,     ......... the Endless
      Thread! (FRED JEANETTE MERTENS)
  11. Re: 1/8 mile NEDRA records? (Marty Hewes)
  12. Loan options? (Tracey Larvenz)
  13. Re: Drag and what to do with it.... was:Re: article:
      Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (FRED JEANETTE MERTENS)
  14. Re: Drag and what to do with it.... was:Re: article:
      Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport (FRED JEANETTE MERTENS)
  15. Re: Loan options? (Tim Humphrey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:41:14 -0600
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>,
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

If you want to encourage the development of street cars, affiliating with 
some Sports Car Club of America Autocross classes would be cool, although 
there are no standard courses with times being compared from region to 
region as far as I know.  They send the regional champs to the Nationals to 
face off.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?


>I want to chime in here too.  The NHRA keeps 1/8th
> mile records and uses them to determine which racers
> at the 1/8th mile tracks goes to the regional events
> but they do not publish them. However the IHRA does
> publish its 1/8th mi records. We could publish them as
> we are separate from either.  Granted it is more work
> for whom ever keeps the records but there could not be
> safety issues or the vehicles racing at 1/8th mi
> tracks would not be allowed to race (there are almost
> as many of these in the NHRA and IHRA as 1/4 mi
> tracks) We are independent and probably should
> affiliate ourselves with both these organizations and
> the SCA as well.
> BTW congratulations to Shawn and Jim
>
>
>
> --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> HI- Dennis, I have been asked about this by Shawn W.
>> for the Battery Beach
>> Burnout,also. As you know Nedra does not
>> record 1/8 mile records at this time. I will have
>> Ken (our tech. director)
>> check with NHRA to see if there are any safety
>> issues, restrictions, or limitations on vehicles for
>> 1/8 mile tracks.
>>
>> The final decision will be up to Shawn and his new
>> board of directors, but
>> maybe we can get the ball rolling.
>> Don "Father Time" Crabtree
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>> > Date: 11/21/2007 5:31:25 AM
>> > Subject: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>> >
>> > Shawn, Jim, welcome to the world of politics!
>> >
>> > As hard as the San Diego club is working on their
>> 1st nedra race and with
>> all
>> > the 1/8 mile tracks around the country I think its
>> time for nedra to
>> start
>> > 1/8 records.                         Dennis Berube
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > For subscription options, see
>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better sports nut!  Let your teams follow you
> with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:42:39 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dave Davidson wrote:
>> ... or using a controller that can suck more amps from a lower 
>> voltage pack and transform it into more voltage to the motor...

Lee Hart wrote:
> They have been built. I recall one in an International Application 
> Note... SCR boost converter, where the boost inductor is the series 
> winding of a conventional DC series motor.

Details: International Rectifier Applications Handbook, 1974. The SCR 
boost converter ran off a 12v battery, and powered a 1 HP 100v series 
motor. Max battery current was 100 amps. Motor voltage could be adjusted 
from 10v to 100v. The motor had its 100v field replaced with one from a 
12v version. Performance was essentially identical to a more 
conventional buck converter, but with a bit lower efficiency due to the 
SCR's 1.5v drop compared to a 12v battery.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:46:25 -0800
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Great idea Dennis! I totally agree with Dennis on this. Since NEDRA already 
has eighth mile records for 96 volt cars and under it would not be that 
difficult to add the other voltage divisions and have a Title saying Eighth 
Mile Records. This will definitely help to broaden the sport and attract new 
racers who only have eighth mile tracks nearby. Dennis, since you came up 
with the idea, send in a formal request to the NEDRA board on January first 
when the new board comes on. You could try now with the present board and 
see what happens.

Roderick Wilde


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:29 AM
Subject: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?


> Shawn, Jim, welcome to the world of politics!
>
> As hard as the San Diego club is working on their 1st nedra race and with 
> all
> the 1/8 mile tracks around the country I think its time for nedra to start
> 1/8 records.                         Dennis Berube
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.1/1141 - Release Date: 
> 11/20/2007 11:34 AM
>
> 



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 04:41:56 +1000
From: Dominant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


>Really? Do you know of any specific 3-phase controller topologies that
>boost voltage? All of the AC controller designs I've looked at just
>use a standard 3-phase inverter that can only reduce the voltage, not
>increase it.

Huh?  Do you mean that a Controller/Inverter can't take a 120V, 500A 
'feed' from the batteries, and convert it into a 240V, 250A feed to 
the motor, or am I reading that wrong? 



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:40:51 -0800 (PST)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Adaptor Cutting Twice
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I'm chipping away on making my adaptor. I'm doing my adaptor in 1/4 inch steel, 
and you can see some details at 
http://www.geocities.com/david_dymaxion/Adaptor/adaptor.html . I had thought it 
would be clever to do rough cuts with the plasma cutter, and then do the fine 
cutting with my mill.


Live and learn moment, apparently plasma cutting hardens the steel. The plasma 
cuts were much harder to machine, and caused vibration while machining. This 
hard layer was fairly thin, and once through it cutting was pretty easy.

If you can move smoothly, the plasma cutter makes a good cut (about as good as 
a saw cut). Some kind of guide for the plasma cutter is essential, freehand 
leads to a very wobbly cut. So if I were to do it again, I would cut the 
outside diameter of the motor plate with the plasma cutter (doesn't need to be 
very accurate), but cut out the precise 4 inch center hole with only the mill. 
The motor plate center hole needs to be precise to center the adaptor (and 
hence the clutch and transmission) with the motor.




      
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut!  Let your teams follow you 
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.  
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:47:41 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 11/21/2007 10:42:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
> 
> Date:11/21/2007 10:42:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Received from Interne
> >According to the 2007 rulebook the only difference between the qt. mile and 
> the 1/8 mile is 7.50 limit for qt. mi. or 4.50 for the 1/8 mile.   Dennis 
> Berube
> If you want to encourage the development of street cars, affiliating with 
> some Sports Car Club of America Autocross classes would be cool, although 
> there are no standard courses with times being compared from region to 
> region as far as I know.  They send the regional champs to the Nationals to 
> face off.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
> 
> 
> >I want to chime in here too.  The NHRA keeps 1/8th
> >mile records and uses them to determine which racers
> >at the 1/8th mile tracks goes to the regional events
> >but they do not publish them. However the IHRA does
> >publish its 1/8th mi records. We could publish them as
> >we are separate from either.  Granted it is more work
> >for whom ever keeps the records but there could not be
> >safety issues or the vehicles racing at 1/8th mi
> >tracks would not be allowed to race (there are almost
> >as many of these in the NHRA and IHRA as 1/4 mi
> >tracks) We are independent and probably should
> >affiliate ourselves with both these organizations and
> >the SCA as well.
> >BTW congratulations to Shawn and Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>HI- Dennis, I have been asked about this by Shawn W.
> >>for the Battery Beach
> >>Burnout,also. As you know Nedra does not
> >>record 1/8 mile records at this time. I will have
> >>Ken (our tech. director)
> >>check with NHRA to see if there are any safety
> >>issues, restrictions, or limitations on vehicles for
> >>1/8 mile tracks.
> >>
> >>The final decision will be up to Shawn and his new
> >>board of directors, but
> >>maybe we can get the ball rolling.
> >>Don "Father Time" Crabtree
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>[Original Message]
> >>>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> >>>Date: 11/21/2007 5:31:25 AM
> >>>Subject: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
> >>>
> >>>Shawn, Jim, welcome to the world of politics!
> >>>
> >>>As hard as the San Diego club is working on their
> >>1st nedra race and with
> >>all
> >>>the 1/8 mile tracks around the country I think its
> >>time for nedra to
> >>start
> >>>1/8 records.                         Dennis Berube
> >>
   


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:45:34 -0800
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Marty, NEDRA is pretty much tied into drag racing only. The URL says it all. 
If someone wishes to do all the hard leg work and start an organization 
called the National Electric Auto Cross Association the URL www.neaxa.com is 
currently available. You could start out as a record keeping organization 
and as the numbers grew you could eventually hold your own events.

Roderick Wilde
One of the Founders of NEDRA


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>; 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?


> If you want to encourage the development of street cars, affiliating with
> some Sports Car Club of America Autocross classes would be cool, although
> there are no standard courses with times being compared from region to
> region as far as I know.  They send the regional champs to the Nationals 
> to
> face off.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>
>
>>I want to chime in here too.  The NHRA keeps 1/8th
>> mile records and uses them to determine which racers
>> at the 1/8th mile tracks goes to the regional events
>> but they do not publish them. However the IHRA does
>> publish its 1/8th mi records. We could publish them as
>> we are separate from either.  Granted it is more work
>> for whom ever keeps the records but there could not be
>> safety issues or the vehicles racing at 1/8th mi
>> tracks would not be allowed to race (there are almost
>> as many of these in the NHRA and IHRA as 1/4 mi
>> tracks) We are independent and probably should
>> affiliate ourselves with both these organizations and
>> the SCA as well.
>> BTW congratulations to Shawn and Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> HI- Dennis, I have been asked about this by Shawn W.
>>> for the Battery Beach
>>> Burnout,also. As you know Nedra does not
>>> record 1/8 mile records at this time. I will have
>>> Ken (our tech. director)
>>> check with NHRA to see if there are any safety
>>> issues, restrictions, or limitations on vehicles for
>>> 1/8 mile tracks.
>>>
>>> The final decision will be up to Shawn and his new
>>> board of directors, but
>>> maybe we can get the ball rolling.
>>> Don "Father Time" Crabtree
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > [Original Message]
>>> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> > To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>>> > Date: 11/21/2007 5:31:25 AM
>>> > Subject: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>>> >
>>> > Shawn, Jim, welcome to the world of politics!
>>> >
>>> > As hard as the San Diego club is working on their
>>> 1st nedra race and with
>>> all
>>> > the 1/8 mile tracks around the country I think its
>>> time for nedra to
>>> start
>>> > 1/8 records.                         Dennis Berube
>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > For subscription options, see
>>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>> Be a better sports nut!  Let your teams follow you
>> with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.2/1143 - Release Date: 
> 11/21/2007 10:01 AM
>
> 



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:57:43 -0700
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"


We could also expand, and become the National Electric Drive Racing 
Association..

No disrespect intended to the founders and their original motivations.

This was just a thought, not a suggestion.


--
Stay Charged!
Hump


On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:45:34 -0800, "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Marty, NEDRA is pretty much tied into drag racing only. The URL says it
> all.
> If someone wishes to do all the hard leg work and start an organization
> called the National Electric Auto Cross Association the URL www.neaxa.com
> is
> currently available. You could start out as a record keeping organization
> and as the numbers grew you could eventually hold your own events.
> 
> Roderick Wilde
> One of the Founders of NEDRA
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
> 
> 
>> If you want to encourage the development of street cars, affiliating
> with
>> some Sports Car Club of America Autocross classes would be cool,
> although
>> there are no standard courses with times being compared from region to
>> region as far as I know.  They send the regional champs to the Nationals
>> to
>> face off.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>>
>>
>>>I want to chime in here too.  The NHRA keeps 1/8th
>>> mile records and uses them to determine which racers
>>> at the 1/8th mile tracks goes to the regional events
>>> but they do not publish them. However the IHRA does
>>> publish its 1/8th mi records. We could publish them as
>>> we are separate from either.  Granted it is more work
>>> for whom ever keeps the records but there could not be
>>> safety issues or the vehicles racing at 1/8th mi
>>> tracks would not be allowed to race (there are almost
>>> as many of these in the NHRA and IHRA as 1/4 mi
>>> tracks) We are independent and probably should
>>> affiliate ourselves with both these organizations and
>>> the SCA as well.
>>> BTW congratulations to Shawn and Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> HI- Dennis, I have been asked about this by Shawn W.
>>>> for the Battery Beach
>>>> Burnout,also. As you know Nedra does not
>>>> record 1/8 mile records at this time. I will have
>>>> Ken (our tech. director)
>>>> check with NHRA to see if there are any safety
>>>> issues, restrictions, or limitations on vehicles for
>>>> 1/8 mile tracks.
>>>>
>>>> The final decision will be up to Shawn and his new
>>>> board of directors, but
>>>> maybe we can get the ball rolling.
>>>> Don "Father Time" Crabtree
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > [Original Message]
>>>> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> > To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>>>> > Date: 11/21/2007 5:31:25 AM
>>>> > Subject: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>>>> >
>>>> > Shawn, Jim, welcome to the world of politics!
>>>> >
>>>> > As hard as the San Diego club is working on their
>>>> 1st nedra race and with
>>>> all
>>>> > the 1/8 mile tracks around the country I think its
>>>> time for nedra to
>>>> start
>>>> > 1/8 records.                         Dennis Berube
>>>>
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > For subscription options, see
>>>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> For subscription options, see
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>> Be a better sports nut!  Let your teams follow you
>>> with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.2/1143 - Release Date:
>> 11/21/2007 10:01 AM
>>
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 21:20:03 +0200
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Nov 21, 2007 7:29 PM, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One other mad idea now that you've got me started :-)
>
> Rear view mirrors add a lot of drag. (The first and worst idea is a
> camera and TV screen to replace them.) :-) Instead, replace the 6"
> diameter mirror with a 6" diameter fan. The blades are clear plastic,
> but each has a "spoke" of mirror inside them.

Yeah, only mounting rearfacing cameras at the back of the card and two
few-inch LCDs inside the cabin will produce less drag and provide
better visibility and ergonomics, and likely be cheaper too.
Some mad ideas are too mad to implement.

-kert



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:27:25 -0600
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport,   ......... the
        Endless Thread!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

bob the idea of eliminating the air drag behind a car came to me by way of the 
concept cars that Clinton paid the big 3 to come up with that were required to 
get minn 70 mpg . I believe it was the Chevy that had a grill like area on the 
side about the rear wheel wheel  whose purpose was to duct air thru the unused 
trunk and out the center rear to eliminate  drag . I remembered it then saw 
Victors web page (all newbes must go to and explore you'll learn a bunch  free) 
where he put plastic on the button to cut drag  and I remembered a article  on 
ev world com about a fellow in Texas who had a ranger sized  Japanese pickup  
who did that and modified his camper shell  to make his pu more aerodynamic  
and had his gas mileage go up from 20 mpg to 22 or 23 mpg . all this translates 
to more range for the same batteries on an ev . that is the usefulness of this 
post 
From: Bob Rice<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.sjsu.edu> 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport,......... the Endless 
Thread!



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "jukka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
  To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@lists.sjsu.edu>>
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport


  > Umm.. guys.. Victor, Lee...
  >
  > In the analogy with the drag on the vehicle you would drop the drag
  > value if you provide a hole through a car with a fan inside. This would
  > be an impact on the negative airpressure behind the car which is
  > something like 90% of the resisitive power on the movement.

            Hi EVerybody;

      Boy! This thread just won't DIE! Feh! If you just faired off the front 
  of the vehicle, like got RID of all that grille opening altogether. Good old 
  Art Deco type streamlining ,I'll bet you will do much better, rather than 
  argueing about turning a fan and the feeble amount of juice you MIGHT 
  recover? Lets work (talk)on somethinh like cutting the disc brake drag, low 
  rolling resistance tires, light gearbox oil rather than the sludge that is 
  in most comversion's gearboxes, pulling off wasterful body ornamation, those 
  silly "Wings" on the trunks. Go into stripping out weight on the car, 
  lighter seats, etc etc. Alota other stuff to improve efficiency. Getting RID 
  of the power brake sysyten, pump, resoivoir, re engineering all THAT. Argue 
  about what size of replacement master brake cylinder to refit cars with?

     NOW you will be using bandspace in a useful way?What steering racks to 
  get RID of power steering crap?A lot of weight and complexity saved in these 
  two steps? No?

  > This might also impact on the overall usability of the vehicle. Nice
  > duct going through the whole car. Eh...

       Ah! HORSE Exhaust!

  > This hole would make the vehicle "face" smaller. It would perhaps also
  > reduce or add turbulence and again affect on the drag somehow.

              IF it worked you would see ot on other cars?

  > So I understood that Victor will change the vahicle "face" to smaller by
  > enabling airflow through car but at the same time adding a bit
  > resistance on the conduit. It would generate energy and keep the drag 
  > same.
  >
  > You could just make the car a bit smaller by cutting the roof down
  > (chopping) for couple inches and adding a correspondent fan on the roof.

  > Yeah, chop and channel, but LEAVE yur silly  fans at 
  > home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Cool yur garage on hot daze?

  > It's easy to put this in test with Elcat. Chopped postal van.. :)  Oh ..
  > wait. ... how about suggesting this to the Mythbusters.. LMAO
  >
        Yeah, that would be a good show for them(us?)

         I'll stick to my signiture fiberglassed over grilles, faired off 
  SMOOTH as best as I can. Youse guyz that have scene my cars know what I'm 
  talking about. And, whatthehell? do you need all that RAIN and shitty 
  weather in the "engine" room? No, you don't and your electronics will thank 
  you!

      Seeya,

      Bob in CT where we have crappy weather, anyhow.

  _______________________________________________
  For subscription options, see
  
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:28:13 -0600
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Well, when my business is profitable enough that I'm not having to work 12 
hours a day, and my LD step son becomes self sufficient, and I have time to 
build the EV autocrosser I've been building in my mind for a year now, I'll 
be in a position to take that on :).  Right now, I owe, I owe, so off to 
work I go :).  I'm an online retailer, and the annual chaos starts Friday. 
We're just completing the AHH of the big AH-CHOO that we do at the end of 
every year.  I'm neck deep in inventory, boxes, and biodegradable packing 
peanuts right now.  It's depressing, a half a semi of biodegradable packing 
peanuts costs more than a 1K Zilla, and they'll be gone by Christmas.

Actually by then maybe I can buy a Volt and go racing again, it's been a 
while.  It'll be interesting to see if anybody autocrosses a Tesla.

Marty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?


> Marty, NEDRA is pretty much tied into drag racing only. The URL says it 
> all.
> If someone wishes to do all the hard leg work and start an organization
> called the National Electric Auto Cross Association the URL www.neaxa.com 
> is
> currently available. You could start out as a record keeping organization
> and as the numbers grew you could eventually hold your own events.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> One of the Founders of NEDRA
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>
>
>> If you want to encourage the development of street cars, affiliating with
>> some Sports Car Club of America Autocross classes would be cool, although
>> there are no standard courses with times being compared from region to
>> region as far as I know.  They send the regional champs to the Nationals
>> to
>> face off.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>>
>>
>>>I want to chime in here too.  The NHRA keeps 1/8th
>>> mile records and uses them to determine which racers
>>> at the 1/8th mile tracks goes to the regional events
>>> but they do not publish them. However the IHRA does
>>> publish its 1/8th mi records. We could publish them as
>>> we are separate from either.  Granted it is more work
>>> for whom ever keeps the records but there could not be
>>> safety issues or the vehicles racing at 1/8th mi
>>> tracks would not be allowed to race (there are almost
>>> as many of these in the NHRA and IHRA as 1/4 mi
>>> tracks) We are independent and probably should
>>> affiliate ourselves with both these organizations and
>>> the SCA as well.
>>> BTW congratulations to Shawn and Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> HI- Dennis, I have been asked about this by Shawn W.
>>>> for the Battery Beach
>>>> Burnout,also. As you know Nedra does not
>>>> record 1/8 mile records at this time. I will have
>>>> Ken (our tech. director)
>>>> check with NHRA to see if there are any safety
>>>> issues, restrictions, or limitations on vehicles for
>>>> 1/8 mile tracks.
>>>>
>>>> The final decision will be up to Shawn and his new
>>>> board of directors, but
>>>> maybe we can get the ball rolling.
>>>> Don "Father Time" Crabtree
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > [Original Message]
>>>> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> > To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>>>> > Date: 11/21/2007 5:31:25 AM
>>>> > Subject: [EVDL] 1/8 mile NEDRA records?
>>>> >
>>>> > Shawn, Jim, welcome to the world of politics!
>>>> >
>>>> > As hard as the San Diego club is working on their
>>>> 1st nedra race and with
>>>> all
>>>> > the 1/8 mile tracks around the country I think its
>>>> time for nedra to
>>>> start
>>>> > 1/8 records.                         Dennis Berube
>>>>
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > For subscription options, see
>>>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> For subscription options, see
>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>> Be a better sports nut!  Let your teams follow you
>>> with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.2/1143 - Release Date:
>> 11/21/2007 10:01 AM
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> 




------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:36:33 -0800
From: "Tracey Larvenz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Loan options?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Is anyone aware of a loan that is available to someone looking to
convert a car to an ev?  I'm in CA.  Thanks very much in advance!

-- 
      Tracey Larvenz
www.melodiousthunk.net



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:38:41 -0600
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drag and what to do with it.... was:Re: article:
        Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

remember the way that gaser use headers ? if u duct any air thru the ev use the 
header idea so the air goes thru smooth  first then monkey with it to find a 
useable amount !!!!
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jukka<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.sjsu.edu> 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:05 AM
  Subject: [EVDL] Drag and what to do with it.... was:Re: article: Mitsubishi i 
MiEV Sport


  Actually I have noticed with Elcat that I really wish to keep all 
  windows and latches closed on highway driving. I can see the difference 
  on Watt-meter instantly. It can make you pretty paranoid and nervous 
  when staring that number go up and down.

  In EV even small losses can be measured and that has been nice tool to 
  develop the vehicle in overall. Change better bearing or cut the roof.. 
  It's even noticeable when a strong wind is blowing from behind.

  This turns actually to funny game with trucks. Being in the vacuum of a 
  big truck I can almost lift the pedal up. The small van is being dragged 
  along that air flow. Feels like surfing. Few times it has been hard to 
  get off this turbulance when the truck suddenly chooses to take earlier 
  exit. :P

  So we are indeed talking small things with ICEs but in EVs we can affect 
    on the consumption. Even perhaps tens of percents.

  I've been thinking this air conduit thing for a long time (even I'm 
  relatively young :)

  Just arrange the airflow through the car (decrease the conduit diameter, 
  increase the air speed, keep it turbulent free) and loose nice portion 
  of the drag still keeping the face area same (=> and still keep the same 
  cabin with confortable seating orientations).

  This would need perhaps a turbine (electric one) to suck the air 
  through. This would transfer the power demand from wheels to the 
  turbine. Same energy used anyway ?

  If the turbine could be powerfull enough man could use more turbine 
  power for highway speeds. Say from 150 mph to 999,99 mph. Seems to be 
  the standard highway speed when I'm driving tiny EV there.

  Could it even make the vehicle go with better efficiency ? Can't say. 
  Just questimating.

  -Jukka


  Loni kirjoitti:
  > To summarize, we all agree that the fan/generator is gimmicky, but there's 
a 
  > great deal of disagreement as to whether or not it's useful or lossy. My 
  > inclination is to believe that because it's already there working (I assume 
  > to cool a radiator) and may even be spinning under 12V supply just prior to 
  > performing as a generator, it may be marginally useful.
  > 
  > Many manufacturers apply aerospace principles to underhood airflow, 
  > directing air past the hottest parts of the engine, ducting some to the 
  > brakes and venting via top or side gills, out the bottom of the engine bay, 
  > or even down a channel to a diffuser at the rear. Now imagine a boundary 
  > layer of compressed and turbulent air at the vehicle's frontal area. At 
  > steady state vehicle velocity without active aero and steady wind speed, 
the 
  > boundary layer of high pressure at the vehicle's nose disperses into 
various 
  > ducts or around the outside of the body at consistently measurable 
pressures 
  > and velocities. Change any variable (vehicle speed, active aero 
  > flaps/spoilers, wind speed/direction) and the dynamic changes all across 
the 
  > frontal area. This is the normal state of affairs for any vehicle. IIRC Cd 
  > (drag coefficient) is not an average measurement, but one taken with steady 
  > wind velocity from directly in front of the vehicle. Still, we don't hear 
  > about vehicle aerodynamics shifting radically simply because wind direction 
  > shifts a few degrees, nor does a modern vehicle become unstable at anything 
  > less than 180 km/h.
  > 
  > In other words, airflow ingress and egress remain *reasonably* consistent 
in 
  > spite of constant flux at the vehicle's front boundary layer, though we can 
  > safely assume that energy consumption to move the vehicle's mass through 
  > space is varying constantly even when vehicle speed is constant . 
  > Nevertheless, the variances aren't always discernable by the seat of our 
  > pants or at the pump (we don't say, "Gee, I paid an extra 10 cents for this 
  > tankful; the wind must have shifted east a few degrees."). I believe this 
is 
  > because the effect on boundary layer density and turbulence have less of a 
  > linear effect on overall Cd than we might imagine.
  > 
  > When examining the efficiency/inefficiency of addition of a fan, too many 
  > factors come into play to describe fully here, not least of which are fan 
  > size vs.dimensions of alternative air ingress, Reynolds number, Helmholtz 
  > resonance, and vehicle design as it relates to dispersal of increased 
  > pressure (and therefore thickness/turbulence of the boundary layer) at 
  > localized areas of the frontal area. In other words, the fan will spin, it 
  > will generate electricity, but it may have negligible effect upon energy 
  > used to maintain velocity *if airflow management prevents a significant 
  > enough increase in cumulative Cd to negate energy gained by the generator*.
  > 
  > As far as I'm concerned, all argument here is moot. Wind tunnel testing 
with 
  > a dynamometer is the only way to be sure.
  > 
  > Lon Hull,
  > Portland, OR 
  > 
  > _______________________________________________
  > For subscription options, see
  > 
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
  > 

  _______________________________________________
  For subscription options, see
  
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>


------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:43:17 -0600
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drag and what to do with it.... was:Re: article:
        Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
        <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Peter !  how about insead of ducting the sir thru the cabin one used the 
sweeping bends like headers and duct it under the cabin in a wide relatively 
flat duct work ( think air cond  type) under the car then came up in t6he trunk 
area and out the center over   say the center 2/3 of the rear area ?
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@lists.sjsu.edu> 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drag and what to do with it.... was:Re: article: 
Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport


  > Just arrange the airflow through the car (decrease the conduit diameter,
  > increase the air speed, keep it turbulent free) and loose nice portion
  > of the drag still keeping the face area same (=> and still keep the same
  > cabin with confortable seating orientations).

  Actually, assuming you could actually accomplish this, then you would
  effective reduce the frontal area.  I.e. if your frontal area is 12 sqf
  and you have a 3 sqf hole in it, then you effectively only have 9 sqf
  frontal are (plus a 3 sqf tube taking up cabin space).
  Even if you make it completely turbulent free, you will STILL increase
  your 'skin' surface that the air must move over and add drag.
  Net result will almost certainly be higher drag than having a similar
  cabin space without the tube.

  >
  > This would need perhaps a turbine (electric one) to suck the air
  > through. This would transfer the power demand from wheels to the
  > turbine. Same energy used anyway ?

  Nope, using air to transfer your motive energy is one of the least
  efficient ways of powering a surface vehicle.

  >
  > If the turbine could be powerfull enough man could use more turbine
  > power for highway speeds. Say from 150 mph to 999,99 mph. Seems to be
  > the standard highway speed when I'm driving tiny EV there.
  >
  > Could it even make the vehicle go with better efficiency ? Can't say.
  > Just questimating.

  There have been some turbine powered ground vehicles, but these are almost
  always built for high power and not for efficiency.
  Even then, they almost always link the turbine to the wheels.

  All of the vehicles that use the turbine to push air have really crappy
  fuel economy.
  Most of the jet turbine dragsters I've been able to look up, link the
  turbine to the wheels.  I did a quick search, but couldn't find any
  references to how many gallons they use to do the 1/4 mile.

  -- 
  If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
  junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
  wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
  legalistic signature is void.

  _______________________________________________
  For subscription options, see
  
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>


------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:47:54 -0700
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Loan options?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"




On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 11:36:33 -0800, "Tracey Larvenz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is anyone aware of a loan that is available to someone looking to
> convert a car to an ev?  I'm in CA.  Thanks very much in advance!
> 
> 

www.prosper.com

--
Stay Charged!
Hump




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

End of EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 60
*********************************

Reply via email to