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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Major milestone in the Electric DeLorean project
(Morgan LaMoore)
2. Re: Jiga vs Giga (JS)
3. Re: White Zombie's 0-60 Time (Ryan Stotts)
4. Re: cold batteries (Jeff Shanab)
5. Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser) (Dan Frederiksen)
6. Re: Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser) (Ryan Stotts)
7. Re: Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser) (Dan Frederiksen)
8. Re: Jiga vs Giga (Morgan LaMoore)
9. Re: Schematics (Peter VanDerWal)
10. Re: Jiga vs Giga (Danny Miller)
11. Re: Jiga vs Giga (gottdi)
12. Re: Composite , Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt ??? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
13. Re: Is BMS needed for li-ion? (Danny Miller)
14. Re: White Zombie's 0-60 Time (Chip Gribben)
15. PFC-20 Regulation Problem (Mike Willmon)
16. Scam Or No Scam (Rich Long)
17. Re: Scam Or No Scam (Mike Willmon)
18. Re: Scam Or No Scam (Dan Frederiksen)
19. Why is ADCs website a joke? (Dan Frederiksen)
20. Re: Scam Or No Scam (Gordon Niessen)
21. Re: Scam Or No Scam (Peter Eckhoff)
22. Re: Schematics (John)
23. Re: Scam Or No Scam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
24. Re: Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser) (Rush)
25. Re: Scam Or No Scam (gottdi)
26. Re: A cooperative approach to making electric vehicles
(Aaron Choate)
27. Re: Scam Or No Scam (gottdi)
28. Re: Scam Or No Scam (Rich Long)
29. Re: Scam Or No Scam (gottdi)
30. Re: Scam Or No Scam (gottdi)
31. Re: Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser) (Roland Wiench)
32. Re: Scam Or No Scam ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
33. Re: Cabin Heat (Lee Hart)
34. Re: Is BMS needed for li-ion? (Lee Hart)
35. Re: UltraCapacitors (Lee Hart)
36. Re: cold batteries (Lee Hart)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 22:33:48 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Major milestone in the Electric DeLorean project
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 1, 2007 9:10 PM, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I recall that I saw the movie for the first time
> (still living in The Netherlands) and noticed that
> the people doing the subtitling (the common way of
> adapting an English movie for Dutch audience)
> were not majors in Physics as the text read: JigoWatts...
In the English version, it was pronounced strangely, making it sound
more like "JigaWatts" than "GigaWatts." I think spelling it JigoWatts
was just trying to convey the strange pronunciation.
-Morgan LaMoore
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:41:04 -0800
From: JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Jiga vs Giga
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> In the English version, it was pronounced strangely, making it sound
> more like "JigaWatts" than "GigaWatts." I think spelling it JigoWatts
> was just trying to convey the strange pronunciation.
>
> -Morgan LaMoore
>
>In the late 50s or early 60s when the Government encouraged the
shift to Metric SI units the Dept of Commerce put out a chart
with the pronouncement shown as Jiga. While teaching Physics
I always used that pronouncement, but I never ever heard anyone
else do so.
John in Sylmar, CA
Driving on sunshine, awaiting the Sunrise.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:05:28 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] White Zombie's 0-60 Time
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
John Wayland wrote:
> It's been a while since I've posted to the EVDL...
Where've you been? Working on forklifts for ~18 hours a day? ;)
> where unfortunately due to technical difficulties, Tim had to abort the
> run and coast to a loss against the Z06...I digress.
I call for a rematch!
> over 100 mph and climbing to 114 mph, it was still trying to get away
> from him and said that it felt as if he was driving on ice.
How much air in the tires? What are your thoughts on doing a minitub
install? How's your traction going to improve when you go lithium?
DOT Slicks?
http://www.teamzmotorsports.net/Installs/Minitubinstallation.pdf
http://boostedhorsepower.com/MySite/1993cobra/images/IMG_0648.jpg
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:07:32 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cold batteries
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Sorry on the picture sizes and more importantly the slow connection.
When I changed careers I had to take that PC from the buisness dsl
(symetric 6mb/s) to the sprint bbd at my house. (3mb/s down but 15Kb/s
up, caugh, ack)
I never got around to making thumbs and smaller versions. If I don't
mention the pictures, people ask if there are any. Yes that POL (page of
links) needs to be turned into a web page, yes there needs to be more
versions of the images with thumbnails, and yes I need to get a better
internet connection.
I just solved a problem with googlebot changeing the way it reads
robots.txt and crawling the site that should help it out some.
Persistant little bugger.
This situation is not going to change anytime soon, no money. At least
the page front page loads quickly ;-)
The question still stands: is insulation sufficient or are heaters needed.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 06:12:53 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I've been looking for a junk yard tranny (no no not that kind :) to
prepare the motor adaptor with before buying the actual car (the safety
net approach) and it struck me that the junk yard approach might be a
good way to get a large library of adaptor patterns without a lot of
people actually buying the various cars and sending the gearbox to you
or random people making measurements that can't necessarily be trusted.
if you get your production capability this might be a way to get many
customers. some initial legwork but after finding the 10-15 most popular
cars it could be a near stock product rather than elaborate custom job.
having the patterns is more than half the battle right?
Dan
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:20:46 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dan wrote:
> having the patterns is more than half the battle right?
What do you want to use for an adapter hub?
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 06:23:42 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> What do you want to use for an adapter hub?
>
>
custom like the plate of course. why do you ask?
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:25:02 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Jiga vs Giga
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Dec 1, 2007 10:41 PM, JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In the late 50s or early 60s when the Government encouraged the
> shift to Metric SI units the Dept of Commerce put out a chart
> with the pronouncement shown as Jiga. While teaching Physics
> I always used that pronouncement, but I never ever heard anyone
> else do so.
One of my professors says "Jigahertz" instead of "Gigahertz." It's not
an accent; other than that prefix, he has perfect pronunciation (by
Minnesota standards).
-Morgan
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:24:00 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Schematics
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
That's kind of like asking "What size tires do I need for my car"
The link for Alltrax schemtaics will work for Alltrax controllers, and
maybe for a Curtis (not sure about the throttle pot wiring), but won't
work for a GE controller, and certainly not for a Solectria or Siemens.
Probably no help with a 'zilla either (I'm not familiar with 'zilla pinouts).
And there are a few other controllers out there, they are probably
different as well.
> Has anyone got a source for a really good schematic for wiring an EV that
> would help a first timer?
> Thanks
> Sam
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:48:02 -0600
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Jiga vs Giga
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Probably comes from "Back to the Future". Doc clearly called it "2.21
jigawatts!!!"
Danny
Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>On Dec 1, 2007 10:41 PM, JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>In the late 50s or early 60s when the Government encouraged the
>>shift to Metric SI units the Dept of Commerce put out a chart
>>with the pronouncement shown as Jiga. While teaching Physics
>>I always used that pronouncement, but I never ever heard anyone
>>else do so.
>>
>>
>
>One of my professors says "Jigahertz" instead of "Gigahertz." It's not
>an accent; other than that prefix, he has perfect pronunciation (by
>Minnesota standards).
>
>-Morgan
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:39:07 -0800 (PST)
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Jiga vs Giga
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Doc clearly called it "2.21 jigawatts!!!">
Clearly Jigawatts is far more than Gigawatts. : )
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Major-milestone-in-the-Electric-DeLorean-project-tf4929936s25542.html#a14113242
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 00:02:35 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Composite , Sunrise vs Volt, Re; Volt ???
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
You betcha! Glad to hear that.
Pete : )
On Dec 1, 2007, at 12:12 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
> That will only come by a change of
> *attitude*.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:45:09 -0600
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Not workable. Boost converters make the most sense at fairly low boost
ratios when high power is involved.
Like for the single-inductor topology, say you need 10A @ 36V, 360W.
That's like 109A out of the 3.3V cell. But wait. This is probably like
a 10% duty cycle on the output, so the output actually needs to get like
3600W pulses during the on-time to meet the output specs. That's going
to require huge inductors because the inductor needs to be wound with
massive wire to avoid overheating (heat goes up with the square of
current) and needs a large core to avoid saturating. The motor will
probably not function well when run with low duty pulses far exceeding
its design rating. We could put a cap on the filter's output until you
see just how high the ripple rating has to be on that cap, and the
capacitance needed to sustain the current to the motor smoothly during
the 90% off-time.
We could go with a Cuk converter which should result in a smooth output
without the surge problems- but we need 2 inductors, large ones too,
and a capacitor capable of a phenomenal amount of ripple since 100% of
the output current has to pass through the series cap. There are better
topologies, they get more complicated and are not without limitations as
well.
Well, it's technically possible, but when you consider the size, cost,
ineffeciency, and limitations of such a converter, I don't see any way
to justify this just to avoid a BMS. A BMS is nothing compared to
this. A BMS could be made more cheaply than this.
Danny
Ryan Bohm wrote:
>>I suppose you could try dozens of small lithium cells, each with its own
>>fuse in series, and then all in parallel. The fuse could be make of a
>>metal that melts at a reasonable upper limit for the cell, so it opens
>>if the the cell has too much charge/discharge current, or gets too hot.
>>
>>
>
>
>Sounds workable.
>
>A single *large* 3.6v charger could charge them all. A single *big*
>
>
>>boost converter would step up the 3.6v to (say) 3.6v to 36v for a 36v
>>motor.
>>
>>
>
>
>Again, sounds interesting.
>
>Seems like a workable scheme for a small vehicle like a scooter or NEV.
>
>
>Why stop there? :) How about a full-size EV? What's the limitations then?
>Could it be cost effective?
>
>-Ryan
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:39:01 -0500
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] White Zombie's 0-60 Time
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Hey John and everyone,
I can vouch for John as a witness who has ridden shotgun in the
Zombie with Tim at the wheel.
I love telling this story and some may have heard it before but it
bears repeating.
When Tim took me out in the Zombie in Joliet he was going about 35
mph on the main drag in town and when the coast was clear he nailed
it. My head smacked the back of the headrest so hard the force threw
my NEDRA hat off my head and it landed in the back. Now this was
gunning it from 35 mph not from a standing stop! The Zombie can
launch even at speed! I'm not even sure a gas car can suddenly
accelerate that quickly while already going 35 o 40 mph. Tim was
telling me he gets bruised up after a day of racing in the Zombie and
I believe it. Remember in "Car and Driver" Ted West couldn't move
his chin down when he accelerated the car? The g-forces are that
strong. NASA could use this car for astronaut training the way it
launches off the pad. Those numbers John are stating are real.
I don't think the gas racer crowd has fully taken in the full impact
of what is going on here, although some are starting to witness it
firsthand now. We're talking a backyard hobbyist car built with
components designed and built by EV hobbyists from this list (John,
Otmar, Jim, Rich with help from Dutchman for drive components)
beating, and if not beating, keeping up with production cars like the
Z06 which have millions of dollars of engineering time and years of
performance legacy as their pedigree. This is big news. We're
silently making noise in the drag racing and automotive world. And
kudos to Bill for the KillaCycle achievements as well and Dennis too.
And with more vehicles being built it's an exciting time.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster and PR
http://www.nedra.com
On Dec 1, 2007, at 11:20 PM, John Wayland wrote:
> Some who have not witnessed the Zombie's hole shot in person, or have
> not had the experience of riding shotgun in the Zombie, have
> challenged
> me on these estimates, saying they are too optimistic, but drivers of
> the car...Tim Brehm, Ted West (Car and Driver mag.), I, and a few
> others who have been handed the keys to take it for a spin
> (literally),
> and anyone who has ridden in the car know that if anything, 3.5
> seconds
> (for the lead acid version) is conservative. An example...the heaviest
> version of the car with the 6 point roll cage and 840 lbs. of Enersys
> batteries was raced at PIR in August against a limited production
> 505 hp
> Z06 Vette, a car that has been road tested by multiple car mags, most
> rating its 0-60 in 3.6 seconds (extremely quick for a street legal car
> on street tires!). On average, the Z06 Vette runs the 1/4 mile in 11.7
> -11.8 seconds, with the exception being the quickest road test 1/4
> mile
> I've seen for a Z06, at 11.5 seconds. That said, the guy who has the
> particularly hot Z06 here in Portland we raced against, has run a best
> 1/4 mile ET of 11.4, so his Z06's 0-60 time, if anything, is probably
> closer to 3.5 seconds. In front of a crowd of perhaps 1500 cheering
> drag
> race fans, WZ absolutely blew the Z06 away off the line, past the
> 60 ft.
> marker, and at the point where WZ was hitting 60 mph or so, was 4-5
> car
> lengths in front of the Z06 Vette! If the Vette hits 60 in 3.5
> seconds,
> how quick was WZ? For the record, WZ also beat the Vette through
> the 1/8
> mile marker and was still in front as both cars neared the finish
> line,
> where unfortunately due to technical difficulties, Tim had to abort
> the
> run and coast to a loss against the Z06...I digress.
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:10:56 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] PFC-20 Regulation Problem
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Has anyone come across a PFC-20 losing its voltage regulation ability?
For circumstance not related to the electrics in the truck I have needed to
drive my big smelly diesel for the last month. Since the Pinto is still
squatting in the garage for the last month Electrabishi has had to cold soak
outside in 20*F weather. I wanted to put some trickle on the batteries in
preparation for starting to drive it again and after 10-15 minutes or so my
KillaWatt meter started beeping wildly 2000+ watts is over its alarm limit
around 1800W or so. I thought my current limit knob got bumped up. Nope, I
had just turned it down to trickle, and even turning it to zero it still
puts out max power. At open circuit it makes 460VDC. The regulation limit
lights still work properly, but it doesn't actually regulate. At open
circuit the red warning light flashes a long-short repetition, unlike the
solid read that would normally come on if I had forgot to plug back in the
charge connection in the battery box after maintenance.
Anyone out there have recommendations? Rich??
I may have to shoe horn in the Pinto's PFC-50 to make it to a public
presentation I have on December 13th.
Mike Willmon
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 06:10:45 -0500
From: Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
order?
Rich
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:26:00 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Just post a legit addy on your Craigslist with the real price you're asking.
State that you ARE the owner of the vehicle. Should nip that one in the
bud.
OR... if you can determine who the guy is just let it ride and when he comes
to you wanting to buy it in a hurry tell him the price is $18,500, per the
ad on Craigslist :-)
Mike Willmon
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Rich Long
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 2:11 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
order?
Rich
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:26:10 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I can appreciate a clever business strategy but this seems too clever
for comfort. it might be semi honorable but I'd contact him about it
just to be sure. you could be devious and play dumb and ask if you can
come see it
Rich Long wrote:
> I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
> also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
> of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
> Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
> is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
> cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
> some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
> order?
>
> Rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 14:34:27 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Why is ADCs website a joke?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I took the longshot of googling for a used ADC motor for sale somewhere
but instead found this: http://www.kinetekinc.com/news/2002-09-03.asp
news from 2002 that ADC has made an 11" motor. of course the motor
doesn't figure on their website in the list of available motors. why
would it..
I would contact them about it but I know from previous experience they
don't react to contact. what gives with ADC? : )
Dan
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 07:55:54 -0600
From: Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
SCAM
He is mis-representing the ownership of the truck. There are copyright
infringements as he is using the photos for commercial gain. And as he
has not contacted you, he has no guarantee that he can actually acquire
the truck. I doubt he ever would try to buy the truck, it would cut
into his 100% profit from the scam.
My 2 cents worth.
Rich Long wrote:
> I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
> also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
> of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
> Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
> is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
> cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
> some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
> order?
>
> Rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 09:30:45 -0500
From: Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I'd contact him as a potential buyer from a phone, other than your own
(Caller ID), and see what he as to say. How about contacting one of our
EVer's in the Seattle area and ask them to pose as a potential buyer?
You might want to tape your conversation but it might not be necessary.
If he is not up front, I would alert the local police. If he's doing
this once, he may have done it a lot more and hurt a lot more people.
He needs to be put out of business. If he is up front, it's someone
testing the waters. More power to him especially if he can sell it for
$3500 more than your asking price.
Peter
Gordon Niessen wrote:
> SCAM
>
> He is mis-representing the ownership of the truck. There are copyright
> infringements as he is using the photos for commercial gain. And as he
> has not contacted you, he has no guarantee that he can actually acquire
> the truck. I doubt he ever would try to buy the truck, it would cut
> into his 100% profit from the scam.
>
> My 2 cents worth.
>
> Rich Long wrote:
>
>> I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
>> also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
>> of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
>> Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
>> is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
>> cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
>> some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
>> order?
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:58:08 -0500
From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Schematics
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
The book convert it has 2 schematics that are based on using a curtis
controller (and it is good reading anyway if you plan on doing a
conversion)
As someone mentioned Otmar's zilla manual has some diagrams of what
is necessary to run the zilla.
Also I put together a schematic for my conversion that uses a Zilla
that may or ma not be helpful (someone pointed out there is a diode
shown in the wrong direction and I noticed the I left off one of the
charger out lines)
http://webpages.charter.net/belchertownev/
Once I get on the road I hope to fix my diagram and put some more
info on my site regarding the experience of conversion from the
viewpoint of someone that started with NO automotive or electrical
skills.
John
On Dec 2, 2007, at 1:24 AM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> That's kind of like asking "What size tires do I need for my car"
>
> The link for Alltrax schemtaics will work for Alltrax controllers, and
> maybe for a Curtis (not sure about the throttle pot wiring), but won't
> work for a GE controller, and certainly not for a Solectria or
> Siemens.
>
> Probably no help with a 'zilla either (I'm not familiar with 'zilla
> pinouts).
>
> And there are a few other controllers out there, they are probably
> different as well.
>
>> Has anyone got a source for a really good schematic for wiring an
>> EV that
>> would help a first timer?
>> Thanks
>> Sam
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 07:18:46 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Rich,
Gather the proof that it's your vehicle. Just have it ready and
contact this person and try to get a phone number and address. If you
do the arrange a meeting time and then go to the local police with
your information and have them join you to arrest the SOB.
It is nothing short of a full blown scam. Try if you can to stop this
guy from trying it again.
Pete
On Dec 2, 2007, at 3:10 AM, Rich Long wrote:
> I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The
> truck
> also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking
> price
> of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
> Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
> is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified
> Craigslist and
> cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
> some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
> order?
>
> Rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 08:25:39 -0700
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
http://electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
scroll down to bottom of page and there is a list of about 100 different
vehicles that Electro Automotive has on file...
Rush
Tucson, AZ
2000 Insight, 66.7lmpg, #4965
www.ironandwood.org
www.Airphibian.com
www.TEVA2.com
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 07:27:15 -0800 (PST)
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hey,
It looks like Geoff Shepherd's 1998 Ford Ranger EV is also up for grabs and
his is not even in the trading post. They are trying to nab over 19,000 for
this one and the city is listed different.
I have a feeler out on this and asked if I could see it. I also asked to get
a phone number. I will contact you if I have any bite on this.
Scam job all the way.
Anyone want to contact Geoff Shepherd?
Pete
Rich Long-2 wrote:
>
> I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
> also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
> of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
> Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
> is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
> cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
> some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
> order?
>
> Rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
--
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http://www.nabble.com/Scam-Or-No-Scam-tf4931295s25542.html#a14116503
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Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:21:05 -0600
From: "Aaron Choate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] A cooperative approach to making electric vehicles
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The Austin, TX chapter of the EAA (AustinEV) also follows a similar
model. We call them "open garages". While people have to provide the
parts and funding themselves, there is plenty of help in getting the
work done if they want it.
We try to get people to post their work days on the group calendar and
people post regularly when they need help on our local email list.
Cheers,
Aaron Choate
On Nov 30, 2007 2:37 PM, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a great idea. I think it has a lot of merit.
>
> Our Minnesota chapter of the EAA is doing this. Michael Shoop is
> converting a Corvette into an EV, with the help of the other members.
> Ours is a new chapter, so almost no one has any experience with EVs.
> Many are afraid to be first jump into a big project. Michael is being
> brave enough to go first, and offer others a way to learn "on the job".
> When we finish, they will have the skills and confidence to tackle
> projects of their own.
>
> In general, I would suggest something similar to what Habitat for
> Humanity does for houses. People volunteer to work on building or
> renovating houses. In the process, they learn all the basic skills of
> carpentry, masonry, plumbing, wiring, painting, etc. When the house is
> finished, it is *given away free* to the person at the top of their
> waiting list.
>
> As people work, they accumulate hours. The more they do, the farther
> their name moves up the waiting list. Eventually, their name reaches the
> top of the list, and they get a free house.
>
> It's worked fantastically well. Habitat for Humanity is now the largest
> builder of new homes in the world!
>
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 07:41:35 -0800 (PST)
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Got another listed on the site and this one had already been sold in Utah.
Not even a Seattle vehicle. I was able to send a post to the original owner.
Again this is listed on Seattle craigslist but the vehicle is in a different
city but the layout of the ads are the same. All the EV's so far seen are
from our EV list.
Pete
Post a scam notice. You won't get a legit answer from this guy but I am
trying first.
Pete
Posted is: Honda CRX 1986 Electric Vehicle (EV)
Rich Long-2 wrote:
>
> I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
> also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
> of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
> Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
> is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
> cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
> some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
> order?
>
> Rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
--
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Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:48:14 -0500
From: Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
Pete,
The truck and I are in Ohio.
Rich
On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 07:18 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Rich,
>
> Gather the proof that it's your vehicle. Just have it ready and
> contact this person and try to get a phone number and address. If you
> do the arrange a meeting time and then go to the local police with
> your information and have them join you to arrest the SOB.
>
> It is nothing short of a full blown scam. Try if you can to stop this
> guy from trying it again.
>
> Pete
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2007, at 3:10 AM, Rich Long wrote:
>
> > I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The
> > truck
> > also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking
> > price
> > of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
> > Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
> > is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified
> > Craigslist and
> > cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
> > some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
> > order?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 07:49:25 -0800 (PST)
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Looks like he has you listed in Portland twice as well with two different
prices. One is a whopping 21,000. Wow.
Scam Job all the way.
Pete
Rich Long-2 wrote:
>
> I have an electric truck that is shown in the EV Photo Album. The truck
> also happens to be for sale in the Ev Tradin' Post with an asking price
> of $15000. Someone (not me) has created a listing in the Seattle
> Craigslist using pictures and data gleaned from the EV Photo Album and
> is offering the truck for sale asking $18500. I notified Craigslist and
> cried SCAM. But after further review is this a scam or is this just
> some business man trying to buy low and sell high in no particular
> order?
>
> Rich
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
--
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http://www.nabble.com/Scam-Or-No-Scam-tf4931295s25542.html#a14116697
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Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 07:59:33 -0800 (PST)
From: gottdi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
OK. I will see what I can do from here. Best to just flag the list and post a
scam in progress.
Pete
Pete,
The truck and I are in Ohio.
Rich
--
View this message in context:
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------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:33:49 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Note: The pattern for a S10 pickup (2.8L V6) 82-93 will fit all the all
the early model Chevy's 237's to the 350's engines 60's to 80's and the
later 350's engines after the 80's. Some of the engines in the 80's are a
little different, but GM went back to the old pattern in the 90's. The S10
has the same bolt holes as the S10 transmission for those years
transmissions which fits be the manual or automatic.
The bottom shape of the adapter for the S10 is somewhat triangle, but
instructed them to keep it round and drill no holes in the bottom half,
because these section only bolts to the transmission bell housing and I
drill those out to fit. The six top bolt holes and two guide pin holes are
use to bolt to the motor.
The motor coupler size will fit any of the GM transmissions. The motor
couplers that fit the 90's flywheels or flex plates for these engines have a
3 inch bolt circle, the early models have a 3.5 inch bolt circle.
I found that I can use either motor coupler on my motors by using the
flywheel wheel with the correct bolt pattern.
The only problem I had with the motor coupler, is that they make it long, so
the transmission pilot bushing is in the coupler, so that it pushes the
transmission back about a 1.5 inch. I was able to position the motor ahead
about 1 inch so the motor mounts can bolt up to the same position and the
transmission yoke still had 1/2 inch sliding clearance.
The adapter plates is thicker because of the long couplers, which my is
about 2.77 inch thick. I could have got by with a 1 inch thick which is the
size I have on my GE-11 motor.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Adaptor plates (Mark Grasser)
> http://electroauto.com/catalog/adaptors.shtml
>
> scroll down to bottom of page and there is a list of about 100 different
> vehicles that Electro Automotive has on file...
>
>
>
> Rush
> Tucson, AZ
> 2000 Insight, 66.7lmpg, #4965
> www.ironandwood.org
> www.Airphibian.com
> www.TEVA2.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 08:48:17 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Scam Or No Scam
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Checking to see if the others are scams or legit and I think one for
sure is legit.
Pete
On Dec 2, 2007, at 7:59 AM, gottdi wrote:
>
> OK. I will see what I can do from here. Best to just flag the list
> and post a
> scam in progress.
>
> Pete
>
> Pete,
>
> The truck and I are in Ohio.
>
> Rich
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Scam-Or-No-Scam-
> tf4931295s25542.html#a14116735
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive
> at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:45:04 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cabin Heat
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> It entirely depends on the type of solid state relay. It sounds like
> you got SCR based relays, which need a zero crossing to turn off.
> However, if you get a SSR that uses MOSFETs, it will work just fine
> at DC.
Almost all SSRs use SCRs or Triacs. These parts are inexpensive,
reliable, and have a low on-state voltage drop of about 1v to 1.5v so
efficiency is good. However, they only switch AC.
There are a few SSRs that use darlington, MOSFET, or IGBT transistors,
and so can be used to switch DC loads. Unfortunately, they are
considerably more expensive (like 4 to 10 times the price, have a higher
on-state voltage drop, and so can't handle nearly as much power in a
given size package. They have tended to be less reliable, too; but that
may be a consequence of them being mis-applied.
Roger Daisley wrote:
> I also had the same idea, but quickly learned (at least in my
> case) that SSR's do not work on DC. I was able to switch them ON,
> but not OFF. I queried this list and was informed that SSR's need
> a zero crossing point, only available through AC, unless an
> elaborate circuit is built to switch the SSR to OFF. DC relays
> seem like the way to go.
All correct.
> (If I'm misinformed, I'd sure like to know. I have a box of twenty
> 50a SSR's, all dressed up and no place to go.
Well, if you're desperate... You can use *two* AC SSRs to switch a DC
load. You also need a big capacitor. Wire them like this (view with a
fixed width font):
+DC_______________
| |
> >
load R > > recharge R
(heater) > > (about 10K ohms)
| C |
|___||___|
| - || + |
"on" | | "off"
SSR \ \ SSR
| |
COMMON___|________|
To turn the load on, momentarily pulse the "on" SSR on. The load turns
on. The SSR also connects the left side of commutating capacitor C to
COMMON. The right end of C is pulled up to +DC by recharge resistor R,
so the capacitor will charge. The "on" SSR will latch on, so you can't
turn the load off with it any more.
To turn the load off, momentarily pulse the "off" SSR on. This shorts
the right side of the charged capacitor to COMMON. Since the capacitor
is charged, this forces the left side of C to the *opposite polarity*
or -DC volts. The voltage across the "on" SSR thus has to pass through
zero; this makes it turn off.
There are actually two zero-voltage crossings at the "on" SSR. The first
one is from +DC to -DC, immediately after the "off" SSR turns on. This
one is pretty fast; an SSR may more may not turn off on this one. The
second one occurs later, as the "on" SSR goes from -DC to +DC when C
reaches 0 volts. This one is slower, and will definitely turn off the
SSR if C is a large enough value.
Once the "on" SSR turns off, the current in C will gradually fall to
zero volts as it fully charges through the load resistance. At this
point, resistor R cannot supply enough holding current to keep the "off"
SSR on, so it turns off as well. Now the load is unpowered, and both
SSRs are off.
The drawback of this circuit is that two SSRs are needed, plus a
relatively large non-polarized capacitor. C has to be large enough to
carry the full load current for at least 10 msec or so -- in other
words, Rload x C > 10 msec. With a 1 KW heater and a 100vdc supply (10
ohm load), that makes C = 1000 uF.
SCRs are much faster than Triacs; if your SSR uses SCRs, you can use
about 1/10th the capacitance; but that's still pretty big!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 09:40:31 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Danny Miller wrote:
> Not workable. Boost converters make the most sense at fairly low boost
> ratios when high power is involved.
> Like for the single-inductor topology, say you need 10A @ 36V, 360W.
> That's like 109A out of the 3.3V cell. But wait. This is probably like
> a 10% duty cycle on the output, so the output actually needs to get like
> 3600W pulses during the on-time to meet the output specs. That's going
> to require huge inductors because the inductor needs to be wound with
> massive wire to avoid overheating (heat goes up with the square of
> current) and needs a large core to avoid saturating.
The inductor size needed is about the same as a buck converter; big, but
not unreasonably so. The field of a series motor will do, rewound for
the lower voltage and higher current.
Consider your example. To go from 3.3v to 36v, you need a 9% off-time.
Switching at 20 KHz (50 usec cycle), the on-time is 45.5 usec. Assuming
a 20% inductor ripple current, 109a average means the current change is
about 21a during the on-time. From this we can calculate the inductance.
L = V x T / I
L = 3.3v x 45.5us / 21a
L = 7 microhenries
That's a tiny inductance; a one-turn hairpin of buss bar on a ferrite
core. The total physical size is about 1" on a side.
> The motor will probably not function well when run with low duty
> pulses far exceeding its design rating. We could put a cap on the
> filter's output...
You always need a capacitor on a boost converter's output.
> until you see just how high the ripple rating has to be on that cap
> and the capacitance needed to sustain the current to the motor
> smoothly during the 90% off-time.
(The on-time is 91% at full boost. The off-time is 9% of 50us or 0.55us)
The output capacitor is no bigger than that required in a buck
converter. Both need large expensive parts with low ESR and high ripple
current. Though buck converters generally "cheat" on input capacitors
and use the batteries to provide some of it.
With a 36v 10a output, this boost converter's output capacitors have an
RMS ripple current of about sqrt((99a^2 x 0.09) + 10a^2 x .91)) = 31
amps. If we allow a 10% peak-peak capacitor ripple voltage (3.6v out of
36v), the capacitance is
C = I x T / V
C = 109a x 0.55us / 3.6v
C = 16.6 microfarads
This is not hard to achieve in practice. It's not an electrolytic; it's
a film capacitor.
> We could go with a Cuk converter which should result in a smooth output
> without the surge problems -- but we need 2 inductors
No; the basic Cuk' converter only needs one simple untapped inductor.
> and a capacitor capable of a phenomenal amount of ripple since 100%
> of the output current has to pass through the series cap.
Cuk' converters do need larger capacitors, but not unreasonably so.
Output energy comes from the inductor during half the cycle, and the
capacitor during the other half. Here's the simplest version.
________________________
| |_ _|_
__|__+ _| inductor / \ -
___ _| \___/ motor
| switch _| diode | +
|____/____|______|\|_____|
| |/| |
|___________||___________|
||
capacitor
> Well, it's technically possible, but when you consider the size, cost,
> ineffeciency, and limitations of such a converter, I don't see any way
> to justify this just to avoid a BMS. A BMS is nothing compared to
> this. A BMS could be made more cheaply than this.
Only 4 parts (see above), same as every other basic PWM controller. If
you use a large number of cells for the BMS, the parts count and cost of
the BMS can exceed the extra cost in the controller.
Boost and Cuk' converters are worth a look, especially for small EVs!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 35
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:15:34 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
Seppo Lindborg wrote:
> I don't think that one needs to make it so fine and complicated. The
> energy in the capacitor goes down in the square of the voltage
... if you draw constant power from them.
> What about a following system:
> divide the capacitor pack in 4 parts... charge them to 300V...
> use them down to 150V. Now change from 1S4P to 2S2P configuration
> [voltage goes back up to 300v] and go down again to 150V. Then 4S1P
> and again from 300V to 150V.
>
> If my reasoning is correct, you have come down to 1/16 of the original
> capacitance and 1/2 of the original voltage. So you have 1/64 of the
> original energy left and 63/64 used for traction.
Yes, this could be done. It takes some big contactors or switches, and
you may need time for precharge so the peak currents when you switch
voltages aren't so high that they damage things.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 36
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:26:51 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] cold batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I am suffering because of cold batteries... The 8 elevated batteries
> I can get to most the sides so adding insulation should be easy...
> The other batteries are under the hood. I can only get to 5 of the 6
> sides here... The last 7 are stuffed in the front grill area and are
> hard to get to.
I favor low density Styrafoam insulation; it has a high R value, is acid
proof, easy to work with, nonconductive, and inexpensive.
When I can't squeeze it in, I use fiberglass insulation. For example, I
lay fiberglass batts in a plastic bag on top of my batteries in winter.
They conform easily to the irregular shape. Maybe you can wrap it around
the battery boxes? Use the 3.5" thick x 14" wide rolls in plastic
sleeve, suck the air out with a vacuum to compress it, wiggle it into
place, then let it swell back up to its normal thickness.
I've also used the spray foam for insulation. In one case, I put the
batteries in my battery box, then sprayed foam into the spaces around
them to both insulate and anchor them in place. To get them out for
replacement, I dumped acetone in to dissolve the foam.
If you drive and charge every day, insulation alone may be all you need
to keep the batteries warm. Otherwise, you may need 10-20 watts per
battery from a heating pad or blanket.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
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