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Today's Topics:

   1. OT: ASCII ......Re:  Is BMS needed for li-ion? (jukka)
   2. Re: Solar panels ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   3. Re: design input? (Mark Maher)
   4. Re: K2 Batteries AND ohter observations at EVS23 - Mustang
      (Glenn Saunders)
   5. Re: K2 Batteries   AND ohter observations at EVS23 (jukka)
   6. Re: Solar panels (Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
   7. Re: Anybody Can Build a Bugatti (john fisher)
   8. Re: K2 Batteries AND ohter observations at EVS23 (Morgan LaMoore)
   9. New pulse motor test(Tommey Reed) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  10. Re: Solar panels ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  11. Re: K2 Batteries   AND ohter observations at EVS23 (Mark Dutko)
  12. Re: Solar panels (Morgan LaMoore)
  13. Re: New pulse motor test(Tommey Reed) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  14. Re: Solar panels (Zeke Yewdall)
  15. Re: Solar panels (Bill Dennis)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:55:01 +0200
From: jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] OT: ASCII ......Re:  Is BMS needed for li-ion?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Lee, Windows generation has no clue what it was in early BBS days. All 
the menus and stuff in ASCII.... sob....those dayz...

You can see many masterpieces in old school sctions in Assembly parties. 
  Real life time machine...

ASCII graphics is not easy to master. I used to remember Atl-codes on 
most symbols but.. now they are long gone.... sob..


-Jukka

    _____   _____
  ,"     "."     ",
/        -        \
| Thou shall need |
| BMS even with:  |
|                 |
|    LiFePo4      |
|                 |
|   Li4Ti5O12     |
|                 |
|    LiNiCoMn     |
|                 |
|    LiMn2O4      |
|                 |
|_________________|

         .-.
         |U|
         | |
         | |-._
         | | | |-.
        /|     ` |
       | | Answer|
       |     to  |
       \  thread /
        |       |     VK
        |       |




Lee Hart kirjoitti:
> Dan Frederiksen wrote:
>> guys, isn't it worth it to draw the circuits on paper, scan and put 
>> online in a link instead of ascii graphics?
>> in my client (mozilla thunderbird) they look completely garbled but even 
>> if they didn't it tends to be a bit messy
> 
> I can draw them faster with ASCII than any other electronic means. They 
> are incredibly tiny; the file size is 1% of any graphics format. And, 
> I'm positive anyone with any computer can view them. No special viewers 
> -- All you have to do is select a fixed-width font and they look fine.
> 
> Putting them in the text means that they are a permanent part of the 
> email, in all the archives etc. No "broken links" a year later.
> 
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:07:03 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Jody,

The concentrator will work but as with everything there is a price to  
pay. The panel will die about 8 to 10 times faster as well. It works  
but puts a major thermal load to the panel and the panel is not  
designed for this high concentration of heat applied. If you can use  
a cool way to increase this light on the panel you still must  
remember that the total area of light is still in play. Instead of  
all the light falling on the panel they extend that area and then  
focus it in so it will be the same size as the panel. If you could  
apply that technique to the panel on an EV you'd need to have a  
curved area to concentrate the light from. IE pick up light from all  
around the vehicle. I still don't think it wold be enough to power a  
big EV but maybe a small light solar racer. But remember the solar  
racers do just that. Solar race and not commute to work. I could  
install a system like that on my homes solar array but then I'd have  
to purchase another inverter to take the load and if I were not able  
to remove the excess heat before the photos hit the panel I'd loose  
the life of the panel by leaps and bounds.

There is always a payoff. I could see a small increase in of maybe 8  
to 10 % but 8 to 10 times is huge.

Pete



On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G  
wrote:

> Everyone,
>
>       I was watching a show on Discovery called "Invention Nation."
> On the show they were showing a guy who took a regular solar panel and
> increased it's output by concentrating sunlight with mirrors.  He was
> able to use mylar film attached to wood and he made about 10  
> reflectors
> send sunlight to the panel.  He was able to get about 8 to 10 times  
> the
> output of a single panel.  Has anyone tried this?  Sounds like a  
> way to
> get great solar output for not that much room.
>
>
> Jody
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:06:47 -1000
From: "Mark Maher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] design input?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

That's a pretty good idea, although the idea of doing a Subaru was mainly to
facilitate a smallish fairly modern (wife mandates airbags) 4 door on a rear
drive platform.  This is tricky (without price prohibitive fab work) as
most are all FWD.  I think if I went front drive I'd probably choose a
different donor.  Maybe a late Integra sedan (still haven't bought the donor
yet, just brainstorming).  I do like Subaru's though, this will/would be my
fifth.  Thanks for the reply.

On 12/3/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What if you used the front wheel drive subaru transmission from an EA
> series or early legacy and just removed the driveshaft, rear diff, and
> rear axles of the imp (except for the stub shafts).  Then you still
> have the advantage of having the transmission, so you could use
> smaller DC motor instead of direct driving the rear differential, but
> you don't have the added drag of an AWD setup.
>
> Z
>
> On Dec 3, 2007 10:00 AM, Mark Maher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Right.  I've been wondering over the parameters involved in final drive
> > decision.  All the motors on EVparts.com are DC and I haven't found any
> AC
> > torque curves.  If a 10:1 is needed (is this specified?) then that may
> throw
> > a monkey wrench into the driveshaft-off-the-motor idea.  I guess a
> > transmission would be needed afterall, in which case I could just do DC
> and
> > keep the original drivetrain and get reverse plus multiple ratios.
> >
> > Anyone ever tried an automatic minus the torque converter?  I know a lot
> of
> > ICE drag racers use 2 speed Powerglide trannies for their
> durability.  If
> > one could ditch the bellhousing or make a flat plate one for packaging
> maybe
> > that could work since shifting under power may not be necessary?
> >
> > - Mark
> >
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2007 6:35 AM, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hmm, most of the AC motors currently available will need at least a
> 10:1
> > > reduction for direct drive.  The axle gives you ~ 4:1 so how are you
> going
> > > to make up the difference without a transmission?
> > >
> > > > Hi all... very new subscriber here, so if you have any posting
> > > > recommendations, please let me know.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, I'd like to convert a vehicle for performance first, range
> > > > secondary, and price third.  I'm thinking of doing a 2000 or 2001
> Subaru
> > > > Impreza.  My idea is to ditch the AWD and just go AC, direct, rear
> drive
> > > > only.  I think this could result in lower weight, lower center of
> > > gravity
> > > > (motor could go where the tranny normally does and leave tons of
> room
> > > for
> > > > batteries and controller up front with some more battery space in a
> rear
> > > > box
> > > > if desired) and for just general simplicity.  An alternative would
> be to
> > > > use
> > > > a big DC motor on the existing AWD drivetrain.  2 axle ratios were
> > > offered
> > > > in this chassis 3.90:1 and 4:10:1.  Probably start with AGM
> batteries
> > > and
> > > > maybe move to more exotic on down the line??
> > > >
> > > > I guess my main concern at this point is regarding motor choice.  I
> know
> > > > this has been hotly contested on more than one occasion, but in this
> > > case
> > > > the difference could mean a whole different drivetrain configuration
> and
> > > > I'd
> > > > like to get some input from the community.
> > > >
> > > > An AC motor seems suited for the rpm range required for direct drive
> > > (top
> > > > speed max of ~90 mph would be fine) and for native regen to help in
> the
> > > > range department, but would it have enough torque to be entertaining
> at
> > > > stoplights, climb hills, etc?  I'd like to be able to break the
> tires
> > > > loose
> > > > from a start and generally tear around.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone have experience with the Siemens motors / controllers like
> from
> > > > metricmind.com or possibly the AC Propulsion (pipedream) AC150?  DC
> > > seems
> > > > to
> > > > win the battle on sheer torque (generalizing) but would it be worth
> the
> > > > packaging and weight handicap in addition to the lack of
> regen?  Also,
> > > if
> > > > I'm ditching the tranny via AC direct drive it might make it easier
> to
> > > > find
> > > > a donor vehicle as auto/manual doesn't matter...
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Mark
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> > > junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> > > wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your
> long
> > > legalistic signature is void.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:08:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 Batteries AND ohter observations at EVS23 -
        Mustang
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The key point to this press release:

----- Original Message ----
No MSRP is currently set




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:07:07 +0200
From: jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 Batteries   AND ohter observations at EVS23
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I can sell them to you :) With resonalble price... MUAH !

I'll be putting some stuff up to tube, but It'll take some time.

Seriously... K2 seems to be one good source for cells. At least their 
representative was nice and ready to talk. But I remain a bit sceptic 
about their cell claims until I've tested them.

One fact that has to be adressed is the packaging. The cell might be 
superior when compare to others but whern you mechanically assemble them 
to packs you'll loose much of it's oiginal potential.

I saw some interesting innovation on that too.

MME/Victor has nice stuff also on his booth. The Evision instrumentation 
is clever and compact. I like that. EVeryone should buy it.

One thing I'm extremely impressed here is that they have SIDEWALKS !! I 
can actually walk from point A to point B. WOW !
2 miles to exhibition and another back.

-Jukka


Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
> jukka wrote:
>> K2 is present here at EVS23. 
> will you be taking pictures? video? putting it on youtube?
> 
> also grill K2 about what price they are willing to sell them for and if 
> they actually live up to spec. what cycle and shelf life too.
> and if they will be making bigger cells
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:16:32 -0500
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

They demonstrated it with a fan.  The regular output of the fan was slow
but much faster with the concentrator.  I wasn't thinking of mounting ON
the EV, just using the system to charge the EV totally from Solar
without spending a ton of money. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 14:07
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels

Jody,

The concentrator will work but as with everything there is a price to
pay. The panel will die about 8 to 10 times faster as well. It works but
puts a major thermal load to the panel and the panel is not designed for
this high concentration of heat applied. If you can use a cool way to
increase this light on the panel you still must remember that the total
area of light is still in play. Instead of all the light falling on the
panel they extend that area and then focus it in so it will be the same
size as the panel. If you could apply that technique to the panel on an
EV you'd need to have a curved area to concentrate the light from. IE
pick up light from all around the vehicle. I still don't think it wold
be enough to power a big EV but maybe a small light solar racer. But
remember the solar racers do just that. Solar race and not commute to
work. I could install a system like that on my homes solar array but
then I'd have to purchase another inverter to take the load and if I
were not able to remove the excess heat before the photos hit the panel
I'd loose the life of the panel by leaps and bounds.

There is always a payoff. I could see a small increase in of maybe 8 to
10 % but 8 to 10 times is huge.

Pete



On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
wrote:

> Everyone,
>
>       I was watching a show on Discovery called "Invention Nation."
> On the show they were showing a guy who took a regular solar panel and

> increased it's output by concentrating sunlight with mirrors.  He was 
> able to use mylar film attached to wood and he made about 10 
> reflectors send sunlight to the panel.  He was able to get about 8 to 
> 10 times the output of a single panel.  Has anyone tried this?  Sounds

> like a way to get great solar output for not that much room.
>
>
> Jody
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:23:56 -0800
From: john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anybody Can Build a Bugatti
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

If your formula is correct then it ought to be possible to make 
difficult/complex things for very small markets, 
especially with the distribution/marketing help of the Internet. I think there 
must be some EV-related validity there 
because there are successful converters and a few suppliers here on the list, 
and what they do certainly meets the 
complexity-difficulty and tiny market criteria. The Internet boys call this the 
Long Tail of course, though they were 
mostly referring to things like uncommon books.

Can any EV car or even bike startup sell into the non-luxury long tail? So far, 
no, the economies of scale are too 
important. Some are trying...
Is there a chance someone could? never say never, but I'd like to hear examples 
of similar long-tail success with very 
small numbers of buyers. Boats for instance. But they are luxury items like 
Teslas and Bugattis.
John

Lee Hart wrote:
> 
> I agree. A simpler way to say it is that building something to please a 
> million people is much harder than something that pleases 100 people.
> 
> Toyota has to build cars good enough to please millions of customers. 
> Just about every little detail has to be right, or you will displease 
> *somebody*. They'd lose customers, and wouldn't sell enough to earn back 
> their enormous development cost in pursuit of perfection.
> 
> Tesla can have so many rough edges that 99.99% of the public won't buy 
> it. But that still leaves them with 100 customers who are willing to 
> overlook all its shortcomings and buy anyway. For a small company, 
> that's enough for a start -- so they proceed!



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:25:45 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 Batteries AND ohter observations at EVS23
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Dec 3, 2007 1:07 PM, jukka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can sell them to you :) With resonalble price... MUAH !
>
> I'll be putting some stuff up to tube, but It'll take some time.
>
> Seriously... K2 seems to be one good source for cells. At least their
> representative was nice and ready to talk. But I remain a bit sceptic
> about their cell claims until I've tested them.

Well, Ian Hooper of ZEVA is getting some to test and add to his data.
That should tell us whether they live up to claims.

> One fact that has to be adressed is the packaging. The cell might be
> superior when compare to others but whern you mechanically assemble them
> to packs you'll loose much of it's oiginal potential.

They're available in the same 18650 and 26650 packages as most of the
other cells we have access to.

My main question is how affordable they will be with the volume
discount. I asked for a quote for 500 cells (a nice amount for my
motorcycle); we'll see what they say.

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:26:32 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] New pulse motor test(Tommey Reed)
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This new model?is now electronic speed control up to 250v dc brush less motor.
This first test on running with out and load...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTKbN0-b2Ws

________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - 
http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aimcmp00050000000001


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:31:51 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Jody,

If you can set it up without the excess heat to the panel it will  
help increase the output of the panels.

A small percentage of increase won't actually save you much money. It  
really is not about saving tons of money but about saving our  
environment which is way worth the expense. I do understand that  
costs do play a part as money is not easy to come by. Just find a  
couple good used large home sized panels and make a nice charger.  
Most old solar panels will output close to the original rating. Get a  
few. and give it a try. Not sure of the electronics needed but you  
are going from dc to dc. A big panel may output more than 12 dc. So  
you'd need a step down dc dc converter.

Pete


On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:16 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G  
wrote:

> They demonstrated it with a fan.  The regular output of the fan was  
> slow
> but much faster with the concentrator.  I wasn't thinking of  
> mounting ON
> the EV, just using the system to charge the EV totally from Solar
> without spending a ton of money.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 14:07
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels
>
> Jody,
>
> The concentrator will work but as with everything there is a price to
> pay. The panel will die about 8 to 10 times faster as well. It  
> works but
> puts a major thermal load to the panel and the panel is not  
> designed for
> this high concentration of heat applied. If you can use a cool way to
> increase this light on the panel you still must remember that the  
> total
> area of light is still in play. Instead of all the light falling on  
> the
> panel they extend that area and then focus it in so it will be the  
> same
> size as the panel. If you could apply that technique to the panel  
> on an
> EV you'd need to have a curved area to concentrate the light from. IE
> pick up light from all around the vehicle. I still don't think it wold
> be enough to power a big EV but maybe a small light solar racer. But
> remember the solar racers do just that. Solar race and not commute to
> work. I could install a system like that on my homes solar array but
> then I'd have to purchase another inverter to take the load and if I
> were not able to remove the excess heat before the photos hit the  
> panel
> I'd loose the life of the panel by leaps and bounds.
>
> There is always a payoff. I could see a small increase in of maybe  
> 8 to
> 10 % but 8 to 10 times is huge.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:49 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
> wrote:
>
>> Everyone,
>>
>>      I was watching a show on Discovery called "Invention Nation."
>> On the show they were showing a guy who took a regular solar panel  
>> and
>
>> increased it's output by concentrating sunlight with mirrors.  He was
>> able to use mylar film attached to wood and he made about 10
>> reflectors send sunlight to the panel.  He was able to get about 8 to
>> 10 times the output of a single panel.  Has anyone tried this?   
>> Sounds
>
>> like a way to get great solar output for not that much room.
>>
>>
>> Jody
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:28:31 -0800
From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 Batteries   AND ohter observations at EVS23
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Jukka-

Don't you know, nobody walks in LA, sidewalks are there to keep you  
from being run over. That's why they need EVs.

M
On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:07 AM, jukka wrote:

> I can sell them to you :) With resonalble price... MUAH !
>
> I'll be putting some stuff up to tube, but It'll take some time.
>
> Seriously... K2 seems to be one good source for cells. At least their
> representative was nice and ready to talk. But I remain a bit sceptic
> about their cell claims until I've tested them.
>
> One fact that has to be adressed is the packaging. The cell might be
> superior when compare to others but whern you mechanically assemble  
> them
> to packs you'll loose much of it's oiginal potential.
>
> I saw some interesting innovation on that too.
>
> MME/Victor has nice stuff also on his booth. The Evision  
> instrumentation
> is clever and compact. I like that. EVeryone should buy it.
>
> One thing I'm extremely impressed here is that they have  
> SIDEWALKS !! I
> can actually walk from point A to point B. WOW !
> 2 miles to exhibition and another back.
>
> -Jukka
>
>
> Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
>> jukka wrote:
>>> K2 is present here at EVS23.
>> will you be taking pictures? video? putting it on youtube?
>>
>> also grill K2 about what price they are willing to sell them for  
>> and if
>> they actually live up to spec. what cycle and shelf life too.
>> and if they will be making bigger cells
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 13:33:02 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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This system actually works really well, if you use expensive solar
cells that were designed to be efficient at and survive the high
temperatures involved in a solar concentrator. Special cells are
available that work best over 100 C. The silicon is more expensive per
square inch, but you use 10 times less of it, so it can come out
cheaper. Of course, they're made at much smaller quantities than
standard cells, so economy of scale makes them much more expensive.

The Michigan Solar Car team (my team's rivals) is using a solar
concentrator in their car this year. They have mirrors that rotate
right and left to partially track the sun. As much as I dislike
promoting our rivals, they have some great pictures on their blog:

http://www.engin.umich.edu/solarcar/blog/

-Morgan LaMoore



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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:41:31 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New pulse motor test(Tommey Reed)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

You really need to clean up that desk top of yours and tidy up all  
those wires and put on some cloths when you make your video's. I  
won't comment any further.


On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> This new model?is now electronic speed control up to 250v dc brush  
> less motor.
> This first test on running with out and load...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTKbN0-b2Ws
>
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> __
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:46:00 -0700
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

It'll work.  Amperage output of PV cells is linear with light level,
so if you increase the light level, you get more amperage.  However,
because the voltage decreases with temperature, and they are going to
be operating at a higher temperature, the total power output increase
is not going to be at great as the increase in insolation.  So...
it'll get more power out of the same cells (provided you don't cook
them an damage them), but less power out of the same total area as if
you just covered the whole area with cells, instead of mirrors.
Unless you use special high efficiency cells with the mirrors, that
is... in which case, they are much more expensive than regular cells.

Z

On Dec 3, 2007 11:49 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Everyone,
>
>         I was watching a show on Discovery called "Invention Nation."
> On the show they were showing a guy who took a regular solar panel and
> increased it's output by concentrating sunlight with mirrors.  He was
> able to use mylar film attached to wood and he made about 10 reflectors
> send sunlight to the panel.  He was able to get about 8 to 10 times the
> output of a single panel.  Has anyone tried this?  Sounds like a way to
> get great solar output for not that much room.
>
>
> Jody
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:36:35 -0700
From: Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solar panels
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Take a look at http://www.energyinnovations.com/ for various ideas on 
solar concentrating.  They've gone through a lot of iterations of their 
design, as you can read at this url:  
http://www.energyinnovations.com/technology/history.html .  One thing to 
keep in mind is there's only so much sunshine falling on a given area 
(about 1KW/square-meter).  So you're still going to need 1 square meter 
of  area to collect it--be a 1-square-meter solar panel or 1  square 
meter of reflectors concentrating the light onto a smaller cell.  The 
reflectors help spread the 1 square meter into 3 dimensions, so for a 
given roof area, you could get more actual area with the concentrators.

Bill Dennis



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