Send EV mailing list submissions to
        ev@lists.sjsu.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1.  Short Battery Cables Needed (Adrian DeLeon)
   2. Re: K2 pricing (Jukka J?rvinen)
   3. Re: K2 pricing (Jukka J?rvinen)
   4. Re: Short Battery Cables Needed (Roger Stockton)
   5. Re: K2 pricing (Tim Humphrey)
   6. Making Battery Cables    WAS:  Short Battery Cables Needed
      (Bob Rice)
   7. Re: K2 pricing (damon henry)
   8. NEWS FLASH - EV-1  L I V E S (Steven Lough)
   9. Re: SW200A contactor (Rod Hower)
  10. Re: rheostat type (Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins)
  11. Re: K2 pricing (Chuck Homic)
  12. Re: NEWS FLASH - EV-1  L I V E S (Dan Frederiksen)
  13. A dream for motor fans (Dan Frederiksen)
  14. Re: K2 pricing (Morgan LaMoore)
  15. Re: Set screw motor hub (Paul)
  16. Re: prestolite mlx-4002? (joseph3354)
  17. Re: SW200A contactor (Ryan Stotts)
  18. Re: Set screw motor hub (Roger Stockton)
  19. Re: Ranger Motors (Ryan Stotts)
  20. LionEV: fact or fiction? (Was:  K2 pricing) (Chuck Homic)
  21. Wire/cable fishing tip (Harry Houck)
  22. Re: K2 pricing (Jukka J?rvinen)
  23. Re: K2 pricing (Jukka J?rvinen)
  24. Re: K2 pricing (Chuck Homic)
  25. Re: K2 pricing (Dan Frederiksen)
  26. Re: SW200A contactor (Rod Hower)
  27. Re: SW200A contactor (damon henry)
  28. Evaluate-my-contactors Promotion (Ian Hooper)
  29. Re: Buck/boost transformer for  K & W BC20 charger (Lee Hart)
  30. Re: Variable phase AC motor (Lee Hart)
  31. Re: SW200A contactor (Jukka J?rvinen)
  32. Re: Short Battery Cables Needed (EVDL Administrator)
  33. Re: NEWS FLASH - EV-1  L I V E S ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  34. Re: SW200A contactor (martin winlow)
  35. equalization during charge ([EMAIL PROTECTED])


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:06:18 -0800
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL]  Short Battery Cables Needed
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;
        charset=iso-8859-15

If you need SHORT cables I'd seriously look at using copper bus bars.

1" x 1/16" bar is very flexible and works well for daily driver vehicles.  
My Cabriolet usually runs 75-100A, with hill climbs of 200-300A for 30  
seconds.

Thicker bus bars will be slightly more efficient, but aren't as flexible.  
Layered (stacked) 1/16" bars might be a better option than a single 1/8"  
bar. Be sure to have at least 1 bend in the bar to allow it to flex with  
battery movement. There is extensive bus bar discussion in the archives.

1) Cut bar to length
2) Drill holes for battery bolts
3) Slide heat shrink over bar
4) Bend to shape
5) Shrink the heat shrink

Very fast, no special tools, and inexpensive. $40 was enough to connect  
the 19 batteries in my car. It's also great for wiring circuit  
breakers/contactors/shunts that are closely spaced inside a box.

I still used 2/0 cable for long runs and for cables that had to change  
elevation vertically.

www.evalbum.com/776

-Adrian



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:00:09 +0200
From: Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Not feeding troll here. Seems to be resonable question from newbie :) MUAH !

Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
> Jukka J?rvinen wrote:
>> p.s.- I still believe the paralled cell packs from PHET are crazy thing 
>> to do. Same thing with all parallering of Lithium.
>>   
> you mean crazy like killacycle? like GM, like SSI-racing, like...

Right. Ask any of them and they do not know how the paralled cells 
behave after 1000 cycles.

Bill does not care if there would be cell failures due this. It's 
"normal" operation since he is pulling the cells up to "there's no 
return" or "She won't hold anymore, Jim" -limits. (After all it *IS* 
Killacycle :)

He is doing great PR job for Lithium technology. Thanks Bill !


GM has nothing ready. Don't even try to pull any Volts here. I will go 
around it with my Elcat with wheels spinning and smoking it back to the 
showrooms.  (8P~

SSI racing has neat concepts and they are learning all the time how to 
use Lithiums over life. Passive balancing with manual charger control. 
But the vehicles I saw in EVS... WOW ! I wish I would not be such a 
skinflint...

What it comes to A123, K2, PHET and other similar passive balancing 
packs.. They are not taking the management component up to the levels 
which will give long lifetime (read: as long as possible wihtout cell 
failures).

At EVS23 there was few extremely nice presentations which were about 
Lithium cell lifetime expectations, management system architectures, 
adaptive charging algorithms, heat degratative effects on electrolytes 
and electrodes.....

It's wonderfull that people are FINALLY going go right direction with 
this. It has been a bit lonely here :) HA!


> 
> as for the price of K2 it's just a bit too high. the EV cell with good 
> capacity is not a high power cell like the other. much more like 
> thundersky batteries, 30 sec pulse discharge rated at only 8C (28A). a 
> 1000 cell pack of those will probably not be a high performance pack. 
> the too high price becomes easier to see when you compare the power cell 
> price of 7.25$ for 2.5Ah to the PHET pricing of 2.6$? for their half 
> size cell or Valence similar cell at 5$ (granted in volume of 10000)
> 
> it's juuuust above the pain threshold that makes it not stand out in the 
> crowd which is so frustrating. it's like they have a club where they get 
> a frontal lobotomy so they all price them where noone buys them. it 
> probably costs them 1$ to make. maybe even less.

I bought few thousand cells. I felt no pain. Is there just something 
wrong with me ?

> 
> that said, the K2 power cell is on paper even better than the A123 M1 
> cell. It has about the same internal resistance but significantly higher 
> capacity. according to the discharge chart the capacity is 2800mAh if 
> read the same way they do in the A123 datasheet. (A123 is 2300mAh). 
> that's quite a difference. 121km range compared to A123s 100km as an 
> example. (if nobody is lying)
> 
> if they could drop the price even to 6$ then it could become the focus 
> of attention and at 5$ it could completely steal A123s thunder and be an 
> undisputed choice.

I'm looking into buying for one customer case ~500 sets of cells (32 kWh 
each). That can do the trick. Immedately. So far TS was an option but 
they fucked me big time. My ass is still sore...

So now it's time for hunt. Surprisingly I see very little difference on 
the price with these volumes.

Upcoming service:
How about if you could go to web service and tailor make on-line your 
own battery system layouts. Choose BMS level and warranties. And then 
order a complete set with affordable price. Pay on-line. Doorstep delivery.

How many sets could be sold ?


-Jukka


> 
> Dan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:08:36 +0200
From: Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Could you ask those teams to take some cell stacks apart and cycle 
individual cells ? Capacity and impedance are interesting to know.
But we would need to know also the original state of the cells when they 
came from facotry.


"balancing" by parallering is just trying to keep them in same voltage, 
but as you might know Lion cells can generate 10x resistance easily 
compared to other cells in same module. That will make the current go 
there where it most conviniently can. And distribute the loads and heat 
unevenly among cells. That effect will kill weaker cells faster and keep 
"better" cells batter. CEll with good impedence can be the cell with 
lowest capacity in the paralled pack. And vice versa.


I've done quite a lot research on this but with TS cells. And they kept 
changing cell structures all the time. AARRGGHH! Frustrating !

But LiFePO4 is a new thing and there is very little knowledge on this. I 
wish there would be a unversity research program to study these 
effects.. somewhere.. ? Anybody ?


-Jukka


Morgan LaMoore kirjoitti:
> On Dec 11, 2007 5:06 AM, Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> p.s.- I still believe the paralled cell packs from PHET are crazy thing
>> to do. Same thing with all parallering of Lithium.
> 
> The U of M solar car team (and many other teams) have been paralleling
> Lithium cells for years. And we aren't paralleling LiFePO4 cells,
> we're paralleling the more dangerous Lithium Polymer cells. There've
> only been a few Lithium incidents, and those were all due to poor BMS
> protection systems. The U of M solar car parallels its batteries at
> every step of the way, so you have several modules in series, each of
> which is a parallel group of cells. This way, you can easily measure
> the voltage of every cell/module, and weak cells can self-balance at
> the module level, not affecting any of the other cells in the pack
> except those in parallel with them.
> 
> These cells we're looking at are LiFePO4, making them much safer. Look
> at Killacycle; they abuse their batteries like crazy, letting them sag
> to 50% for max power, and their batteries are still doing fine.
> 
> That said, a BMS is much more important for Lithium, and it should do
> more than something like a Rudman Reg.
> 
> -Morgan LaMoore
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:33:13 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Short Battery Cables Needed
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

ampaynz1 wrote:

> Well, just buy some 2/0 cable for $2.50 a foot or best price
> you find. Make sure it is welding cable as it bends nicely.

Agreed...

> Go to local metal shop and buy lugs, cost $2 each normally.
> If your not lucky enough to know of such a store, then go to
> lowes and buy a 3/0 lug as it close to a LENCO 2/0 lug in
> size. I am sure some would disagree on oversizing.

I suppose that if you beat on a 3/0 lug enough it might be possible to make a 
'good enough' contact to 2/0 cable, but I would strongly suggest using good 
quality lugs of the proper size.

I like the MagnaLugs as sold by EV Parts (e.g. 
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=722&product_id=1727>), 
and they cost only very little more than the garden variety tubular lugs you're 
likely to find at a local auto parts or marine store.

Waytek has good prices on the tubular lugs such as you might find at a local 
auto/marine store, such as these 
<http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0E501C419C98840046F4081+M37+ENG>,
 or slightly heavier duty ones such as these 
<http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0E501C419C98840046F4081+M37+ENG>.

EV Source is priced in between these two 
(<http://www.evsource.com/tls_lugs.php>), however, EV Source offers the unique 
service of *renting* you the crimpers, cutters, etc. that you need to do a 
proper job of making your cables: 
<http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php>.  If you choose to take 
advantage of their tool rental option, it might just make sense to have them 
throw in a bunch of lugs with the tools as you'll probably save on the shipping 
and handling costs associated with buying similar lugs from another webstore.

> Now buy some sharp stainless steel scissors.
>
> Now cut the cable with the scissors buy sawing it back and
> forth. Try not to brake the scissors. Should take 30sec to 1
> min if you are patient to saw through it.

I strongly suggest that you don't do this!  If you 'saw' the cable, you will 
'smear' the ends of the strands and find it very difficult to fit the cut end 
into a proper-size lug.  Instead of scissors, either buy/rent a pair of propper 
cutters from EV Source, or use a pair of garden pruning shears to cut the 
cable.  This will result in a cleaner cut and make it much easier to insert the 
cable end into the lug without a bunch of strands sticking out.

> If don't own a crimping tool, then I suggest Lenco Swedge-On
> Tool Model 840 . Cost is $8.41. Pull up and put your lug in
> it. Now beat the living crap out of it. Keep doing so until
> you see it is deformed. Well it easy to see when it is done.
> Normally, takes 6-8 hits at a minimum.
>
> Before you hit it with the hammer, make sure your lug is
> angled right. I normally check alignment after 1st and 2nd
> hit as it can change a little.
>
> Lenco Swedge-On Tool Model 840l can be bought at many
> different places, but I found this company to be the cheapest
> http://tinyurl.com/2rtzwy  . Of course using a $250 crimping
> tool would be a lot cooler and easier. However, if you like
> hammering nails, then this will work fine.

After crimping the lugs onto the cable (with whatever crimping means you 
prefer), you might want to install a 2" length of heatshrink over each end to 
colour-code one end black and the other red, and to seal the cable/lug junction 
against acid.  Any heatshrink will do for colour-coding, but adhesive-lined 
heatshrink is what you need to prevent acid from getting to the connection.

EV Source has the adhesive-lined heatshrink in red and black 
<http://www.evsource.com/tls_heatshrink.php>, and one of the tools you can 
buy/rent from them is a heat gun for shrinking it.

EV Parts also carries red and black adhesive-lined heatshrink 
(<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=&product_id=1758>, 
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=&product_id=1756>), so 
if you opt for the MagnaLugs they carry, you can get heatshrink at the same 
time for one-stop shopping ;^>

> Lloyd Wayne Reece wrote:
> >
> > I am looking for a source where I can order some battery
> > cables.   I am looking for cables with battery post connectors
> > that are 6 to 8 inches long to go between my 6volt batteries.
> > Any websites that someone can recommend or what would it take
> > to make them myself and is the cost difference worth the effort??

The pre-made cables you can generally find are intended for applications other 
than EVs (e.g. ICE starting) and tend not to be of the same quality as ones you 
would make yourself for the task.

Making your own is relatively easy and mostly just requires access to the 
proper tools, which largely means a suitable crimper.  Plan on spending an 
afternoon making up cables once you have the tools and material on-hand so you 
aren't rushed, and I think you'll find it to be a rewarding endeavour.

Cheers,

Roger.



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:43:26 -0700
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"




On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:00:09 +0200, Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Upcoming service:
> How about if you could go to web service and tailor make on-line your
> own battery system layouts. Choose BMS level and warranties. And then
> order a complete set with affordable price. Pay on-line. Doorstep
> delivery.
> 
> How many sets could be sold ?
> 
>

Offer financing too??  ;-)


--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:55:58 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Making Battery Cables    WAS:  Short Battery Cables
        Needed
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

   Hi EVerybody;

   Just a few thoughts on this Cable thing; You can cut #2 cable 
effortlessly on a table saw with a fine tooth blade. Who you kidding, with 
scissors?? Amputation with a dull spoon IS posable, just messy, too.With the 
#3 lugs you can stuff ALL the frizzis in and SOLDER it together. Makes a 
better connection than iffy crimping, anyhow, and IF you screw up you can 
UNsolder and try again! Ya need at least a plumber's type acthyletene torch, 
you won't LIVE long enough to do it with a Bernz A Matic!!

    Oh Ho... I hear, I mean, feel the Crimping/ soldering argumenyt arising 
from the archives. Soldering has worked for me going on 40 years.Oh an' 
another thing, don't scimp on the LENGTH. I mean leave a little so you have 
a gentle bend between batteries, looks nice and won't strain the posts, like 
if ya have to hammer it on?Heat shrink  for a nice "Pro" look.

    Of course when you get your jewel running, go out and pull some AMPS. 
Feel around, every post SHOULD be cool? Right? Good on you! Your all set to 
enjoy electric motoring!

  Seeya

  Bob 



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:57:09 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:00:09 +0200
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
> Upcoming service:
> How about if you could go to web service and tailor make on-line your
> own battery system layouts. Choose BMS level and warranties. And then
> order a complete set with affordable price. Pay on-line. Doorstep delivery.
>
> How many sets could be sold ?
>
>
> -Jukka
>


This sounds like a nice turnkey idea, but for me price is still a huge issue.  
Essentially I can already have this (and may at some future) for my needs by 
going to Valence.  It's not quite what you are offering, but I can go get 12 
volt modules complete with charging and BMS solutions.

I like the way you are thinking though.  When I get some miles on my truck and 
am happy with the way it performs and know for sure what my battery 
requirements are, then I will be shopping for just the type of thing you are 
proposing.  I want a nice light lithium pack that will give me somewhere 
between 50 - 100 miles range.  It's a small truck (1970 Datsun) and I expect to 
be able to get it to average around 150wh per mile.  For now I am going to live 
with limited range because I am not willing to turn it into a lead sled.

I don't want to build my own pack or BMS.  I want to pay someone else to do it 
and have something that knows how to take care of itself with very little 
effort on my part.

Of course the real determining factor will be price.  I'm not even sure how 
much I am willing to pay.  I know not $20000.  I doubt anything over $10000.  I 
would have a hard time saying no to anything under $10000 if it is a total 
solution which includes a reliable BMS.  

What do you think, do I still have a couple of years to wait?  Is my truck 
going to be a 20 mile per charge vehicle forever?  I hope not.

damon
_________________________________________________________________
The best games are on Xbox 360.  Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 
Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:00:21 -0800
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] NEWS FLASH - EV-1  L I V E S
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

And it will be at tonight's Seattle EV Association monthly Meeting

7 pm Mosaic Coffy Shop

2nd Ave and 44th Street, behind Dicks Drive-In on 45th west of the UW.

It is a beautiful silver model which has been in the care of
Western Washington U. of Bellingham Wa. at their Vehicle Research Institute.

It has taken them over 2 years to allow the car to move under its own 
power, and it WILL BE this evening.  Come one Come ALL.
-- 
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:     http://www.seattleeva.org



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:00:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Does anybody have more information on this contactor.
Rated at 250A continuous duty with suppression, 28Vdc
coil.
Thanks,
Rod



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:04:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] rheostat type
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

All,
Don't you kids read my posts?! The Zivan's only drawback is the poor power 
factor correction (PFC). Assuming everyone has a 30 amp dryer outlet, read on...
BB

-----Forwarded Message-----
>From: "Dave (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 1:10 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] 220 volt breaker box + outlet combo
>
>Lee and All,
>I probably posted about this before, but... 
>
>Years ago when I was volunteering out at the BMX bicycle racing track, I put 
>together a "safe" charging cord like you described below, based on the 14-50 
>plug. Out at the track next to the starting gate, there was one of the RV 
>style pedestals with a 14-50 receptacle (four prong 240 volt 50 amp), which I 
>would run my buzz box off of to repair the gate, and a 120 volt 20 amp GFCI 
>that we ran the air compressor from. Now that I think about it, it did not 
>have a 120 volt 30 amp receptacle that a lot of RV's use, like our pop-up 
>camper.
>
>Anyway, I had bought a kWhr meter from Steve Ciciora to
>keep track of my power use in order to reimburse the track, and to offer my 
>mother-in-law 20 cents, as she always thought I was sucking up dollars! I 
>bought a 14-50 range plug which has a short cord, and fed that into the meter. 
>I had a 3-phase 30 amp knife switch style box lying around (with three barrel 
>style fuses), so I wired that into the output of the meter (with six gauge 
>wire of course!), and hung a 10-30 receptacle off of it for the off-board 
>FrankenLester (240 volt 30 amp), and a 120 volt 20 amp GFCI receptacle for the 
>on-board Zivan. I made adapters as I needed them to connect my 14-50 plug to 
>other 50 amp receptacles, and 30 amp dryer receptacles (aka, Bruce (EVangel) 
>Parmenter opportunity charging!) This set-up has worked great over the years, 
>and has allowed me to reimburse places that I would regularly charge at, like 
>my sister-in-laws in a neighboring town (when I was a drum-line parent roady), 
>and at a community radio station in another neighboring town. Si!
 nce the truck is always charged through the kWhr meter, it is also useful for 
keeping track of watt-hours per mile when you don't have an e-meter. Over the 
20k miles that I got out of the last traction pack, the lead brick vehicle 
averaged $0.04 per mile for electricity!
>Suck Amps,
>BB
>
>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:10:26 -0400 (EDT)
>>From: Lee Hart 
>>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>>
>>From: David Nelson
>>> Ok, so if, for example, I installed a 50 amp receptacle and I plugged
>>> in my Gizmo's <15amp charger I'd have to make sure I had an adapter
>>> with a 15amp fuse since that is the rating of the cord.
>>
>>Yes. That 14-50 receptacle will have a circuit breaker that won't trip until 
>>you exceed 50 amps. If some fault in your charger makes it draw (say) 40 
>>amps, the breaker won't trip. But the *cord* to your charger is probably 
>>sized for only 15 amps, so it could melt or short or catch fire.
>>
>>So, to do this safely, you'd install a 14-50 plug on your cord, with a 15 amp 
>>fuse *in* the plug itself. They make plugs like this, though they are rare. 
>>Interestinly, in Europe they are quite common, since their standard home AC 
>>receptacles are 230vac.
>>
>>--
>>"Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry James
>>--
>>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
>


>Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:49:47 -0500
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>What type of rheostat would I look for so I can turn down my Zivan 115 VAC
>charger?
>
>even 50 foot of cord didn't prevent tripping the breaker at a friends
>house.
>
>a rheostat is the right product?




------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:08:37 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>
> I don't want to build my own pack or BMS.  I want to pay someone else to do 
> it and have something that knows how to take care of itself with very little 
> effort on my part.
>
> Of course the real determining factor will be price.  I'm not even sure how 
> much I am willing to pay.  I know not $20000.  I doubt anything over $10000.  
> I would have a hard time saying no to anything under $10000 if it is a total 
> solution which includes a reliable BMS.  
>   
The LionEV batteries are 70V/209Ah for $7,447 or 105V/209Ah for $11,174 
(with BMS).  Add a charger for $725.  I have my eye on them, but I can't 
find anyone that has successfully used them in the field.  I contacted 
LionEV directly to see if they have any references, but they would not 
provide any. ("References are hard to come by since most people get 
burned out after a couple of thousand emails.")

The 70V pack (14KWh) should get you 90 miles if your 150Wh/mile is to be 
believed.  I plan to drive my future EV as carelessly as my gas car, so 
I was looking at the 140V pack (better volts, and still over 70 miles at 
400Wh/mile highway).  I just have to convince myself that the $15,000 is 
worth it.  (If the 2000 cycle claim is true, that's 140kmi at full 
highway speed, 10 cents per mile, cheaper than gas, should be cheaper 
for less DOD for more cycles.  Additionally, "death" is defined as a 20% 
reduction in capacity, which would not make them useless.)

There's the rub.  Are the Ah capacity and 2000 cycle life true??  Who knows?



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:08:12 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NEWS FLASH - EV-1  L I V E S
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

to allow? to get permission? or to make it work.
is it free of contracts from GM so they can't take it back when it drives?

Steven Lough wrote:
> And it will be at tonight's Seattle EV Association monthly Meeting
>
> 7 pm Mosaic Coffy Shop
>
> 2nd Ave and 44th Street, behind Dicks Drive-In on 45th west of the UW.
>
> It is a beautiful silver model which has been in the care of
> Western Washington U. of Bellingham Wa. at their Vehicle Research Institute.
>
> It has taken them over 2 years to allow the car to move under its own 
> power, and it WILL BE this evening.  Come one Come ALL.
>   



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:17:02 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] A dream for motor fans
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I ran across this studying some physics. I thought it was a startling 
contrast that lead my thoughts to motor designs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CERN-cables-p1030764.jpg

the shaft would probably have to be diamond to carry the torque but wow 
what a motor that is possible with that current density

Dan



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:34:07 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

> The LionEV batteries are 70V/209Ah for $7,447 or 105V/209Ah for $11,174
> (with BMS).  Add a charger for $725.  I have my eye on them, but I can't
> find anyone that has successfully used them in the field.  I contacted
> LionEV directly to see if they have any references, but they would not
> provide any. ("References are hard to come by since most people get
> burned out after a couple of thousand emails.")

I really doubt that LionEV is for real. It is about half the price of
TS! Also, if you look at their discharge and charge curves they give
you, it looks like the curve for a 3.7V Lithium Cobalt Dioxide or
Lithium Polymer cell, not the 3.2V LiFePO4 cells they claim to sell.

Also, they make contradictory claims about their BMS; in one place,
they say the sell you a full PCB BMS, but in another, they show photos
with just connected cells, no BMS, and say that their BMS is a basic,
passive, fuse-based system.

It might be for real; I really hope that it is, but I would be very
wary and not trust it until I see it.

I would love to see something like that that is for real, though; even
if it cost 2 or 3 times as much, it would be good enough for some
people if it were reliable and had good performance.

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:53:01 -0800
From: Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Set screw motor hub
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On Dec 8, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Roland Wiench wrote:

> I just check a new bushing I had, and the bushing is about 0.004  
> inch larger
> than the transmission pilot nose.  Of course the transmission pilot  
> nose may
> be worn some.  This would be about 0.624 + 0.004 for about 0.628  
> inch in
> your case.  The 0.629 should be ok.

The hardware in my old Datsun is similar (nearly a copy) to the old  
MG stuff and I finally found some numbers. They match your numbers to  
a tee. 0.003 to 0.004 is correct for new properly fitted parts.

> I use a standard pilot bushing that I pick up from a auto parts  
> store and
> then turn it down for a press fit into the motor shaft.

Alas, its hard to turn up the outer pilot bushing diameter <g>.

Thank You,
Paul Gooch



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:06:51 -0800 (PST)
From: joseph3354 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] prestolite mlx-4002?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


thanks alot for your help jim.i kinda figured the shaft was an issue.i bought
the motor because it was said to have a 7/8 inch shaft.thats what i get for
buying on ebay :( anyhow,i guess ill just use gear or chain drive to support
the shaft till a better motor comes my way.have to put it in a smaller
vehicle than planned also(not gonna haul my truck is it?),again ,thganks for
your time and effort,ill be on here again with more questions im sure!!       
keep up the great work with killacycle and the rest!!
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/prestolite-mlx-4002--tp14260124s25542p14285616.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:09:29 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

What do you want to know about it?



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:14:46 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Set screw motor hub
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Paul wrote:

> Alas, its hard to turn up the outer pilot bushing diameter <g>.

But, fortunately, 0.625" (5/8") is a readily available ID for off the shelf 
brass/bronze bushings in a vairety of ODs, for instance:  
<http://www.reliablebronze.com/page_8.html> offers 5/8" ID in 3/4", 13/16", and 
7/8" OD (navigating to the next page in the catalog reveals 15/16" and 1" OD as 
well).

You may even find a suitable bushing in a local hardware store (even Home 
Depot), as some of them have a small selection in standard sizes (e.g. 1/2", 
5/8", 3/4" ID), but typically you'd be likely to find only a 5/8" ID and 3/4" 
OD sort of thing).

Cheers,

Roger.






------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:17:07 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ranger Motors
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

> > We have fewer than 100 left

At some point in time in the near future; this motor will be a thing
of the past.  All gone, no more, shows over.



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:35:03 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] LionEV: fact or fiction? (Was:  K2 pricing)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> I really doubt that LionEV is for real. It is about half the price of
> TS! Also, if you look at their discharge and charge curves they give
> you, it looks like the curve for a 3.7V Lithium Cobalt Dioxide or
> Lithium Polymer cell, not the 3.2V LiFePO4 cells they claim to sell.
>
> Also, they make contradictory claims about their BMS; in one place,
> they say the sell you a full PCB BMS, but in another, they show photos
> with just connected cells, no BMS, and say that their BMS is a basic,
> passive, fuse-based system.
>
> It might be for real; I really hope that it is, but I would be very
> wary and not trust it until I see it.
>   
They claim their Accents and Tucsons are sold out.  If that's true, 
there must be DOZENS on the street.  After all, even if each car makes 
$5k profit, that's 10 conversions per year just to make a decent salary 
for one person.  If JUST ONE customer reports out on their conversion 
(photos, driving experience, etc.), I'll be happy.  If they're just 
collecting $1000 deposits until the FBI comes knocking, then that's 
another story.

No, LionEV is not getting my money without a substantial burden of proof.

As far as the "too good to be true" pricing, I'm not sure if the price 
is altogether unreasonable.  If you had 5000 of these:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3294
it would cost $26000.  It stands to reason making a big one instead of 
connecting 5000 of those dodads would cost half as much.

Anyway, with all of this, I got to wondering who LionEV is.  
"lionev.com" is registered by a domain anonymizer, but he has his name 
on this page: http://www.lionev.com/Technology.html.  Weird.  
Unfortunately he has a fairly common name, but he doesn't seem to have 
anything to do (online) with EVs.  (Compare to, say, googling for "Bob 
Batson.")

Sigh...

For those of you that have already come to the same conclusions as me, 
sorry for wasting your time. :)  I know this was batted about a few 
months ago on the list.



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:10:52 -0800
From: "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Wire/cable fishing tip
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

 A tip I heard about from another list.  Use heat shrink tubing to connect your 
wire or cable to the pull line or old cable. 
 
 
 




------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:57:50 +0200
From: Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Sure. Why not.

This is still a vague attempt to see what is the actual demand for 
such... If there is... it can be done.

-Jukka


Tim Humphrey kirjoitti:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:00:09 +0200, Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>> Upcoming service:
>> How about if you could go to web service and tailor make on-line your
>> own battery system layouts. Choose BMS level and warranties. And then
>> order a complete set with affordable price. Pay on-line. Doorstep
>> delivery.
>>
>> How many sets could be sold ?
>>
>>
> 
> Offer financing too??  ;-)
> 
> 
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:08:42 +0200
From: Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

It seems we are falling in to the financing again.

But.. hey.. just for play.

Say 150 wh/mi, 100 Mi range = 15000 Wh pack for say 5 years (100 mi/ 
charge guaranteed) and 3 complete cycles /week.

=> 160 V 100 Ah.

Thats about 50 pcs of 3,2V LiFePO4 cells. 100 Ah each.

That pack could cost nicely less than 10 k as complete kit. 3 kW charger 
included.

TS is blabbering around with less than 1 USD/ah and such pricing can be 
found with many other Chinese manufacturers.

Say 5 year payment time = 60 months.

It could be less than 200 USD / month. Last payment 1000 USD. And it's 
yours.

This is not an offer but just an insight what I have seen in China.

Heck.. they are going to sell small 1 seaters with 4000 USD and 10 kWh 
pack... CRAZY !

-Jukka


damon henry kirjoitti:
>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:00:09 +0200
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
>> Upcoming service:
>> How about if you could go to web service and tailor make on-line your
>> own battery system layouts. Choose BMS level and warranties. And then
>> order a complete set with affordable price. Pay on-line. Doorstep delivery.
>>
>> How many sets could be sold ?
>>
>>
>> -Jukka
>>
> 
> 
> This sounds like a nice turnkey idea, but for me price is still a huge issue. 
>  Essentially I can already have this (and may at some future) for my needs by 
> going to Valence.  It's not quite what you are offering, but I can go get 12 
> volt modules complete with charging and BMS solutions.
> 
> I like the way you are thinking though.  When I get some miles on my truck 
> and am happy with the way it performs and know for sure what my battery 
> requirements are, then I will be shopping for just the type of thing you are 
> proposing.  I want a nice light lithium pack that will give me somewhere 
> between 50 - 100 miles range.  It's a small truck (1970 Datsun) and I expect 
> to be able to get it to average around 150wh per mile.  For now I am going to 
> live with limited range because I am not willing to turn it into a lead sled.
> 
> I don't want to build my own pack or BMS.  I want to pay someone else to do 
> it and have something that knows how to take care of itself with very little 
> effort on my part.
> 
> Of course the real determining factor will be price.  I'm not even sure how 
> much I am willing to pay.  I know not $20000.  I doubt anything over $10000.  
> I would have a hard time saying no to anything under $10000 if it is a total 
> solution which includes a reliable BMS.  
> 
> What do you think, do I still have a couple of years to wait?  Is my truck 
> going to be a 20 mile per charge vehicle forever?  I hope not.
> 
> damon
> _________________________________________________________________
> The best games are on Xbox 360.  Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 
> 360 Console.
> http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:41:50 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jukka J?rvinen wrote:
> TS is blabbering around with less than 1 USD/ah and such pricing can be 
> found with many other Chinese manufacturers.
>   
Where's that at?  Thundersky and Everspring are still advertising $2/Ah.



------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:06:53 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

wrong order. custom orders are not attractive. make stock, then people buy

Jukka J?rvinen wrote:
> Sure. Why not.
>
> This is still a vague attempt to see what is the actual demand for 
> such... If there is... it can be done.
>
> -Jukka
>
>
> Tim Humphrey kirjoitti:
>   
>> On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:00:09 +0200, Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Upcoming service:
>>> How about if you could go to web service and tailor make on-line your
>>> own battery system layouts. Choose BMS level and warranties. And then
>>> order a complete set with affordable price. Pay on-line. Doorstep
>>> delivery.
>>>
>>> How many sets could be sold ?
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>> Offer financing too??  ;-)
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stay Charged!
>> Hump
>> I-5, Blossvale NY
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>     
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:20:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Are these usable for anything more than an NEV?  It
looks like some have used it on Commuter Cars, just
wondering how much $ these are worth in the EV
community.
I plan on buying some at a discounted rate for testing
at work and wondered if I should get some extras for
EV usage (including other people's EV's that would pay
$30 for them)
Thanks,
Rod
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What do you want to know about it?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:19:23 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Well, I payed $165 for an SW200 from Electro Automotive to use as a main 
contactor on my truck.  I wonder if there is any differences other than the 
coil voltage between the two.

damon


> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:20:03 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
>
> Are these usable for anything more than an NEV? It
> looks like some have used it on Commuter Cars, just
> wondering how much $ these are worth in the EV
> community.
> I plan on buying some at a discounted rate for testing
> at work and wondered if I should get some extras for
> EV usage (including other people's EV's that would pay
> $30 for them)
> Thanks,
> Rod
> --- Ryan Stotts  wrote:
>
>> What do you want to know about it?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec



------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:34:11 +0900
From: Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Evaluate-my-contactors Promotion
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Hi all,

As part of my business venture Zero Emission Vehicles Australia, I've  
started importing Albright-style contactors manufacturer-direct from  
a company called Nanfeng Electrical in China. The quality seems as  
good as Albrights to me and we've had samples running in some  
vehicles over here for a while now, but I'm interested to get some  
wider opinions to make sure they're up to scratch.

So I'd like to offer five people contactors at half price (well below  
cost!), in exchange for your honest opinions and experiences with  
them! They'll still come with the 12 month factory warranty, of  
course. They're listed here:

http://www.zeva.com.au/store.php?category=3

Please contact me off list if interested :)

Kind regards,

Ian Hooper
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Zero Emission Vehicles Australia
http://www.zeva.com.au



------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:33:01 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Buck/boost transformer for  K & W BC20 charger
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Bill & Nancy wrote:
> I need a boost transformer for a K & W  BC 20 charger so it can charge a 
> 120 volt pack.. It looks like I could just  use a power transformer with 
> the output in series with the charger input.  Does the primary leg of 
> the transformer tie in with the other secondary lead?  How many amps 
> would the transformer need to handle to do this, and would a 12 volt 
> secondary be enough voltage or does it need 24 volts?

You have the right idea. You can use a 120v primary, 12v secondary 
transformer as a buck-boost autotransformer. Wire the primary and 
secondary in series. Power the primary from 120vac normally. Take your 
output from the end of the 12v secondary and the opposite end of the 
primary. You will either get 120 + 12 = 132vac (boost) or 120 - 12 = 
108vac (buck). Reverse the two leads of the secondary to switch between 
buck and boost.

A 12vac secondary transformer is probably enough. Its secondary current 
obviously needs to be rated for whatever your maximum charging current 
will be (about 15 amps). You might be able to use the transformer from a 
"15 amp" 12v battery charger, but frankly, most of these have more like 
a 5 amp transformer (the ratings lie).

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:53:43 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Variable phase AC motor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Ian Hooper wrote:
> Unless induction motors operate differently to other motors I'm
> familiar with, running a larger number of poles means you get higher
> torque but lower peak RPM?

Pretty much correct. Roughly speaking, the maximum torque is closely 
related to the surface area between rotor and stator. But rarely can you 
actually achieve this limit -- other factors impose lower limits (like 
the winding current before the wire melts).

So, if you look at the specs for a multi-speed motor, it does indeed 
deliver almost twice the torque when configured for half the speed.

But, if you are building motors from scratch with a fixed number of 
poles (say, 2-pole and 4-pole), then the 4-pole motor will have a 41% 
larger diameter rotor so its rotor-stator surface area just happens to 
be twice as much as the 2-pole motor. The extra circumference is how you 
fit in twice as many stator poles.

> So, how about an induction motor with a whole bunch of stator 
> windings (say 12), and a controller which was able to drive them with
> a varying number of poles. This would sort of give you the
> equivalent of different gears, but without the complication of any
> moving parts.
> 
> Has this been done? Are there any problems with it? (Does my 
> description make sense?)

It's been done. For example, it used to be common to find 2/4/6 pole 
motors with 3 sets of stator windings. Depending on which set you 
powered, it ran at 1150, 1725, or 3450 RPM. The drawback of such motors 
is that they cost more to make, and efficiency is a bit lower because 
only about 1/3rd the winding space is being used at each speed.

Large motors have also been built with many more than 3 phases. The 
phase windings can then be connected various ways to create different 
numbers of poles. This got around the efficiency problem by using all 
windings at all speeds; but at the expense of lots of wires and 
complicated switchgear.

Most of these solutions have been retired now for cost reasons -- 
electronic inverter-based speed controllers are cheaper.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:25:31 +0200
From: Jukka J?rvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

SW200 is quite sufficent for most EVs. At least in my EVs. It's rated 
for 400A. My EVs mainly stay below 500 A peak and 150 A continous.

I'm now using latching ones. They seem to be ok so far. There's a 
supercapacitor buffered IC based CAN controller for them. So it has 
status reports on each contactor. Also certain presequences can be 
programmed if necessary. So now it works as normal contactor but takes 
only fraction of the energy during use.

This could be even seperate device with small button interface for any 
conversion. Why not.

-Jukka


damon henry kirjoitti:
> Well, I payed $165 for an SW200 from Electro Automotive to use as a main 
> contactor on my truck.  I wonder if there is any differences other than the 
> coil voltage between the two.
> 
> damon
> 
> 
>> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:20:03 -0800
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
>>
>> Are these usable for anything more than an NEV? It
>> looks like some have used it on Commuter Cars, just
>> wondering how much $ these are worth in the EV
>> community.
>> I plan on buying some at a discounted rate for testing
>> at work and wondered if I should get some extras for
>> EV usage (including other people's EV's that would pay
>> $30 for them)
>> Thanks,
>> Rod
>> --- Ryan Stotts  wrote:
>>
>>> What do you want to know about it?
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> For subscription options, see
>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 05:09:57 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Short Battery Cables Needed
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 11 Dec 2007 at 11:26, ampaynz1 wrote:

> Now cut the cable with the scissors buy sawing it back and forth. Try not to
> [break] the scissors.

Until I got some big cable shears, I used to cut welding cable with a fine-
tooth hacksaw.  Worked great, and very quickly.  Note that it must be fine 
toothed or it will rip up the end of the wire.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 33
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:20:28 -0800
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NEWS FLASH - EV-1  L I V E S
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="US-ASCII"

What did they do, add a custom drive system back into it?

-----Original Message-----
It is a beautiful silver model which has been in the care of Western
Washington U. of Bellingham Wa. at their Vehicle Research Institute.

It has taken them over 2 years to allow the car to move under its own 
power, and it WILL BE this evening.  Come one Come ALL.




------------------------------

Message: 34
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:57:28 -0000
From: "martin winlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <!&[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

More than you could ever want to know...

http://www.globalepower.com/Datasheets/Contactors/Albright%20Color%20Data%20
Sheets/EV%20Contactor%20Data%20Sheets/SW200%20LEAFLET.pdf 

Regards, Martin Winlow

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SW200A contactor
Does anybody have more information on this contactor.
Rated at 250A continuous duty with suppression, 28Vdc coil.
Thanks,
Rod




------------------------------

Message: 35
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:11:02 +0200
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] equalization during charge
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1255

If I understand u right you are equalizing while series charging?
Is this by adding a separate parallel voltage source or regulator to each
battery for the equalization, in addition to one main voltage source charging
all in series?

[pic of what i mean at http://wiki.saymoo.org/EvdlGems/Scratch]

>Due to race regulations, we can't include equalization in the same
>system, so we are building it separately. The system we are designing
>(using individual transformer windings for each cell) takes about $3
>worth of transformers per cell in small quantities. It equalizes at
>about 1 amp, which may seem slow, but it will have plenty of time to
>equalize while charging.



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

End of EV Digest, Vol 5, Issue 36
*********************************

Reply via email to