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Today's Topics:
1. Re: D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor (keith vansickle)
2. Re: Prius NiMH Batteries (Jack Murray)
3. Re: Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor (Jim Husted)
4. Re: Prius NiMH Batteries (keith vansickle)
5. Re: Prius NiMH Batteries (Pestka, Dennis J)
6. Re: small DC permag -- bad motor? misadjusted?
overloaded?cursed? (Jeff Major)
7. Trolls (again) (EVDL Administrator)
8. Re: Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT (EVDL Administrator)
9. Re: Buck/Boost rectification question (Lee Hart)
10. Re: D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor (Lee Hart)
11. Re: Paralleling BB600s (Thomas Ward)
12. Re: EVs at Wal-Mart (Vivek Gani)
13. Re: D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
14. Re: Another EV1 soon to be running (Jim Husted)
15. Re: EVs at Wal-Mart (dave cover)
16. Re: D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor (Jim Husted)
17. Re: D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
18. Re: Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
19. Re: New NEDRA record (was: Altairnano batteries vaporware??
NOT) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
20. vac. switch (Sam Shepherd)
21. Re: Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
22. Re: danfrederick getting better (Chip Gribben)
23. Re: One Cool Day At The Drag Strip (keith vansickle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:48:58 -0800 (PST)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I have a conceptual (As in I have thought about it and
sketched it) design to turn E-tec motors into
hub-motors but it would have to be for a lightweight
vehicle. Further since I have never actually built
one and tested it I am not sure how it would work. If
your are interested in pursuing it contact me off list
and I can send you some rough sketches.
kEVs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Would they make Hub Motors for us out of them?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of jerryd
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 2:56 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch
> motor
>
>
> Hi Damon and All,
> Many 6.7" motors are built on the
> standard frame, lams so
> the differences are in the windings, comm.
> D+D will build you a custom one for
> a reasonable price.
> There are different ways to go here.
> The longer ones use 8
> brushes and put out plenty of power as the
> Killacycle shows as they use 2 of
> them.
> For a small truck for good power.
> life, a way would be using
> 2 of the small, shorter ones D+D ES21-$475, ADC A89
> gives more power than
> longer 6.7"
> ES31-$875, of even 8" motors-$1200+. Now add you can
> cool them better and
> higher RPM and 2 cost less than a small 8"
> and the same for a longer 6.7".
> They can be ordered with dual shafts
> too.
> So for many EV's a great low cost
> motor would be 2
> A89-ES21's, one with a dual shaft give longer, more
> power, more cooling
> surface, higher rpm than most other single motors at
> less cost.
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
> Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 03:36:13 +0000
>
> >I just put a 6.7 inch in my 1970 Datsun truck. I'm
> still waiting for
> >my bed to come back from the body shop, so I don't
> have it all back
> >together yet. I only have 200 pounds of my 400
> pound battery pack and
> >no bed, so it is about 400 pounds lighter than what
> the finished truck
> >should be. I have taken it out for a few test runs
> and had it up to
> >about 45 mph since I've only been on local low
> speed roads. All
> >indications say that my little 6.7 inch is up to
> the task, but realize
> >this is a very light truck, and just to be sure I
> am forcing air
> >through the motor.
> >The other thing to realize is that taking out my
> 6.7 and upgrading it
> >to an 8" or 9" ADC will not be a difficult task if
> I decide to go that
> >route someday. So if going with a 6.7 inch gets
> you on the road now
> >when you otherwise would not, go for it. Oh, and
> also, not all 6.7
> >inchers are equal. You'll want to get an 8 brush
> version not 4, and
> >you want one with a longer armature which means
> more copper.
> >
> >damon> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:33:34 -0800> From:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Subject:
> [EVDL] Advanced DC 6.7
> >inch motor> > Hello everyone,> > I was looking at
> the EV Album to see
> >how much of a vehicle an
> >Advanced> DC 6.7 inch motor could handle. My son is
> looking
> >for a small truck,> and the 6.7 inch motors are
> cheaper than 8 inch.
> >Can you power a mini> truck like a Toyota or Nissan
> with one 6.7 inch
> >motor, maybe with less> top speed and acceleration?
> If you put in two
> >6.7 inch motors, that> would be similar to an 8
> inch, would that be
> >more acceptable? I see> that some have put a 6.7
> inch motor in an older
> >air cooled VW bug, maybe> that would be a better
> project?> > Thanks,> >
> >Alan > >
> _______________________________________________> For
>
> >subscription options, see>
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>___________________________________________________________
> >______ Share life as it happens with the new
> Windows Live.
>
>http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_12
> >2007
> _______________________________________________
> >For subscription options, see
> >http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:51:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius NiMH Batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Found this, indicates they will discharge at 125amps.
The IB 9aH D-cells outperform, but at cheap used
prices,
looks like the prius packs would be ok for a 1-off,
beat the heck out of lead acid.
http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/stockNIMH.html
--- Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone used or evaluated the battery pack from a
> 2000 Prius? From what I find online, they are 6.5ah
> cells.
> Someone locally has a few packs for sale from
> wrecked
> cars at relatively low prices. How many amps can
> they
> deliver?
> Jack
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:59:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As a 6.7" Bug driver, I'll relate my experiences:
>
> First, I have the L91 model. This version is wound
> to give higher RPM's and accepts a higher voltage
> than the X91 model. So, it's less torquey but will
> give you higher motor speeds.
Hey Rich, all
Here's some input and my take on motor sizing. As to
the above statement I'd like to add "at X voltage" as
for the speed of the two motors being compared.
> I'm running 128 volts of 8v floodies that weigh 69
> lbs each so the car is heavy. Cruising at 55-60 mph
> in 2nd gear on level ground I only draw 80-90
> battery amps.
I just had a guy who blew his ADC 9 doing 62MPH in 2nd
gear. Given that the 9's are subject to a much lower
RPM limit vs the L91 you're still below it's threshold
I'd imagine but what RPM are you at when doing 60 in
2nd? Seems like you might be getting close to your
limit (at least without risk anyway) and might want to
calc out your motor RPMs at that speed. In as much as
exploded comms are probably the biggest cause of
failure I see with EV motor use, it's easily prevented
by simply knowing ones RPM's. Just thought I'd throw
this out there in hopes it will prevent at least one
guy from blowing his motor up.
> The bottom line is, a 6.7" motor will work of you in
> your truck but you have to decide: Keep it light so
> acceleration can be snappy or load it up with
> batteries and accelerate gently. Forced air cooling
> is a great idea, plus do what Roland does and put an
> ammeter on the motor side so you can make sure you
> don't overload it. I've pulled maybe 600 motor amps
> through mine briefly without any noticable damage.
> (I don't do it now that I've been better educated)
The L91 is a pretty stout motor and the biggest 6.7 I
know of. Bill Dube (okay, scotty) throws a lot more
at his than that, so they'll take it for short bursts.
Killacycle gets to pit right after that though and
cool down a bit and isn't still sucking current like a
daily would be doing after being hammered after
chugging a hill for example.
> Also, something I learned from Lee (I think?) is
> that motor ratings are just points on a thermal
> curve. You can exceed the listed values for shorter
> periods of time, the time being limited to when you
> begin to exceed the thermal limits of the motor. Of
> course, there's a limit to THAT as well, because I
> -think- too much current can destroy the armature
> regardless of the temperature.
It all comes down to heat, regardless of whether it's
created by mid range current for durations or hard
current for shorter bursts. In general the smaller
the motor, the faster it's going to heat up doing the
same work. With that said, just because a motor "can"
do the job, doesn't mean it will be happy about doing
it!
> I'll close with the admission that I am NOT the
> motor guru and that hopefully Jim Husted will speak
> to this matter.
There is huge value in real world data and I look to
you guys for information regarding stuff like this.
Being just about EVeryone's battery limited it doesn't
make sense to carry around more motor weight than
what's needed, but it's a serious bummer to have
bought a motor and find out you're overheating it.
I've had a number of this type of reports but mostly
from MC's that are locked at one gear ratio using
ratio's around 4.5 to 1. EVen though they are lighter
I highly recommend 8 brushed motors for MC's anymore.
Anyway I learn something new EVeryday! My views and
beliefs shift as I obtain info from results from my
work as well as from you all. With that said, it
sometimes takes me years to get any type of data at
all it seems, as most people just throw them on their
coffee table once received, LMAO!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 08:59:42 -0800 (PST)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius NiMH Batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dave,
Do you have a contact for Carlton?
TIA
kEVs
--- Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Carlton Brown used Prius packs to power his
> electric7...
> http://www.electric7.com/construction.html
>
> You can probably find some technical clues within
> his website.
>
> -Dave
>
>
> Jack Murray wrote:
> > Has anyone used or evaluated the battery pack from
> a
> > 2000 Prius? From what I find online, they are
> 6.5ah
> > cells.
> > Someone locally has a few packs for sale from
> wrecked
> > cars at relatively low prices. How many amps can
> they
> > deliver?
> > Jack
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:08:30 -0600
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius NiMH Batteries
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Does anyone know where he is on this project ?
Picture shows he first drove it almost 3 years ago. Don't see any other
updates
Looks like he's doing a first class job.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Stensland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:46 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Prius NiMH Batteries
Carlton Brown used Prius packs to power his electric7...
http://www.electric7.com/construction.html
You can probably find some technical clues within his website.
-Dave
Jack Murray wrote:
> Has anyone used or evaluated the battery pack from a 2000 Prius? From
> what I find online, they are 6.5ah cells.
> Someone locally has a few packs for sale from wrecked cars at
> relatively low prices. How many amps can they deliver?
> Jack
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:12:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] small DC permag -- bad motor? misadjusted?
overloaded?cursed?
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just for grins, wouldn't a supplementary field coil
> theoretically also
> be able to strengthen the magnetic field, lowering
> speed and increasing
> torque?
Hi Christopher,
Theoretically, yes. But practically, not worth it.
The PM has a fixed mmf (magnetomotive force), somewhat
analogous to a battery emf (electromotive force, or
voltage). A field coil produces mmf (ampere-turns).
So in a magnetic circuit one could put a field coil
and PM in series and have the mmf's add or subtract.
Just as one could put a 12 volt battery in series with
a 6 volt battery and get 18 volts, or 6 volts,
depending on the relative polarities.
The big problem with the magnetic circuit using both
is that the PM material has low permeability. So the
electromagnetic source, mmf, sees the equivalent of a
very long air gap and has to produce an excessively
strong mmf to overcome that and produce much flux.
This results in a very large coil consuming a lot of
excitation power. Typically not worth it.
Regards,
Jeff M
____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:38:17 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Trolls (again)
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 17 Dec 2007 at 23:41, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> No offense, but does it really need to be a public statement? Is there
> any benefit besides trying to make him look even worse?
I won't specifically discuss this situation or argue whether the person in
question should be labeled a troll. That's up to each person to decide.
However, I >will< speak generically and say that it is better to NOT respond
in ANY way to a troll.
Don't announce that you're filtering a troll - that is just another way of
feeding him. But definitely do so (I mean put the troll in your filter).
Never read his or her posts. Never respond. That's how you starve the ogre
under the bridge. ;-)
Now back to discussing EVs - and a hearty congratulations to Dennis for his
success.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:45:38 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 18 Dec 2007 at 8:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I would not have the 123 cells on my dragster....
> The Altairnano batteries are far superior weight for weight.
Ahhhh ... a new flame war! I never thought I'd welcome one ... ;-)
Finally, after all the years of "it's the battery, stupid," I'm starting to
believe we might have real progress in the EV world. I remember when the
flame wars were over flooded vs. AGM.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:01:39 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Buck/Boost rectification question
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Frank John wrote:
> I'm looking for a badboy approach for an onboard opportunity charger
> for my 120 VDC pack of T125's... If a nominal 120-12 = 108 VAC (rms)
> configuration is used it peaks at about 152 volts (or a bit higher
> where I am, as the local utility tends to run at 122-124 volts). I
> think I need somewhere around 145 VDC to charge this pack.
I would aim for 2.5v/cell, which is 150v for a 120v pack. Your 120-12 =
108v is just about right as-is. When you're right at the peak, charging
current has fallen to zero amps.
> Will 152 peak drop down with a bit of capacitance on the output side
> of a bridge?
No. Capacitance on the DC output of a bridge *increases* the average
voltage -- it makes it track the peak voltage. But the batteries
themselves have more capacitance than any real capacitor you might add.
The right place to put capacitors in such a charger is across the AC
line. This type of charger has a poor power factor. Capacitors across
the AC line will spread out and phase shift the peak current spike,
improving the overall power factor. This means you can get a little more
charging current from an AC outlet without tripping the breaker.
> Could anyone suggest capacitance values on the output?
0 uF. You only add capacitors if the ripple current is too high. This
will sometimes happen with small batteries on a large charger, or when
trying to float charge AGMs or gels.
> Would a capacitor/inductor approach to limit current on the input
> also drop output voltage a bit?
It depends how you do it. In general, here's how it's done:
1. Set the final voltage and current into fully charged batteries
with the AC voltage. Adjust this voltage with a variac, or tapped
buck/boost transformer.
2. Limit the maximum charging current into dead batteries with series
inductance. (Could also use resistance, but it wastes power and
things get hot. Could also use series capacitance, but capacitors
are bigger and more expensive for a given current.)
3. Add capacitance across the AC line to improve the power factor.
This has no effect on charging, but reduces the AC line current
needed for a given charging current, so you can get more current
from a given outlet before tripping its breaker.
Note that you still have a non-isolated unregulated charger. It doesn't
correct for changes in AC line voltage or battery temperature. Add a
GFCI, input and output fuses, and a timer so it won't murder your
batteries the first time you forget and leave it unattended!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:33:06 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Would they make Hub Motors for us out of them?
A hub motor is quite a bit different from a conventional motor. I'm not
sure if any part is the same between the two.
A conventional motor is built for lower torque and higher RPM, which
means the length is greater than the diameter. It has a relatively low
number of turns, because you can get more than 1 volt per turn due to
the speed. A high power-to-weight ratio requires high frequency in the
windings, which is done with a small number of poles (2-6) and high RPM.
A true hub motor (direct drive, not a high-speed motor with a gearbox)
is built for high torque and low RPM, so its diameter is much greater
than its length. The number of turns is higher, because you get fewer
volts per turn at lower RPM. A high power-to-weight ratio requires a
high pole count, which is mechanically awkward.
A successful hub motor has been elusive. Most designs wind up heavier,
less efficient, harder to cool, and more expensive than an equivalent
conventional motor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:40:50 +0000
From: Thomas Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Paralleling BB600s
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I think there is a Saft paper about paralleling NiCads, can't remember
where I read it but far as I remember as long as you aren't after 100%
performance its fine. can't remember if Saft recommended any additional
hardware.
You might get lucky with google and find the paper, that probably where
I found it.
(-Phil-) wrote:
> I have seen several electric Busses with a series-parallel string of STM's.
> They apparently work fine as long as overcharge is completed properly.
>
> I see no reason why you cannot put flooded Ni-Cd's in parallel. By virtue
> of the required overcharge, they tend to do a mini-eq each charge cycle.
>
> If you are not overcharging, then you never finish a charge and the capacity
> will fall off rapidly. I have definitely noticed this on my large STM-5-200
> pack.
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 1:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Paralleling BB600s
>
>
>> 2 NiCd cells cannot be put in parallel. They won't charge, discharge,
>> or even just sit there evenly.
>>
>> A string of NiCds can only be put in parallel if an appropriate charge
>> controller is used. Simply putting two 24v NiCd strings in parallel by
>> themselves will likely have the same problem as the individual cells.
>>
>> Are you sure you wanna use NiCd for a solar installation? The cycle
>> efficiency is not as good as lead-acid and they have a small but
>> significant self-discharge rate.
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Saturday, December 15, 2007 1:01 am
>> Subject: [EVDL] Paralleling BB600s
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
>>
>>> Question for those folks who are running parallel BB600s.
>>>
>>> Is anyone running parallel strings or do you have to parallel them
>>> on a
>>> cell by cell basis.
>>>
>>> I'm nearing complition on my EV workshop and I'm going to run it on
>>> solarpower. It would be easiest if I can just parellel my 24V
>>> batteries. If I
>>> have to go cell to cell, then I'll need to make new interconnects.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Pete.
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
>>> whatever I
>>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
>>> longlegalistic signature is void.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:00:19 -0600
From: "Vivek Gani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs at Wal-Mart
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
According to the press release, it's a lithium-powered smart car for
$35,000. Sure it's pricey (which I 'd still expect), but that sounds highway
capable. Seems walmart/sam's are breaking some eggs now to get us some nice
omelettes (read: EVs for the masses) in the years to come.
On Dec 17, 2007 12:31 AM, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, Wal-Mart, and Sears have been selling Power Wheels for years.
>
> Costco sold GEM cars a while back. Maybe they still do somewhere.
>
> How long will it take for them to start selling freeway capable models?
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Former owner of 48 Volt Fiesta
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVDL" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 12:13 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVs at Wal-Mart
>
>
> > One of the more bolder statements I've ever read since they state it
> > as so matter of fact, and the very first sentence too no doubt.
> > Seeing as how "Hybrid Technologies" is involved; it's likely just more
> > press release type material.
> >
> >
> > "Walk into a Wal-Mart in the not-too-distant future and among the
> > thousands of products for sale will be an electric car."
> >
> >
> > http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=440939
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:07:18 -0800
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
So if you have modern 2006-2008 cars you want to convert "without" manual
transmission, and you don't want to go through the pain of trying to
interface to the tranny, and you want the weight loss gained by ripping out
the entire engine AND tranny, but you don't have $25K per hub motor (ugh)..
what about getting a welder to just create a rear axle with a regular motor
at each end? Could you mount some Azure Dynamics motors on each? Would you
have a little pain or a big pain?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 9:33 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Would they make Hub Motors for us out of them?
A hub motor is quite a bit different from a conventional motor. I'm not sure
if any part is the same between the two.
A conventional motor is built for lower torque and higher RPM, which means
the length is greater than the diameter. It has a relatively low number of
turns, because you can get more than 1 volt per turn due to the speed. A
high power-to-weight ratio requires high frequency in the windings, which is
done with a small number of poles (2-6) and high RPM.
A true hub motor (direct drive, not a high-speed motor with a gearbox) is
built for high torque and low RPM, so its diameter is much greater than its
length. The number of turns is higher, because you get fewer volts per turn
at lower RPM. A high power-to-weight ratio requires a high pole count,
which is mechanically awkward.
A successful hub motor has been elusive. Most designs wind up heavier, less
efficient, harder to cool, and more expensive than an equivalent
conventional motor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:30:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Another EV1 soon to be running
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- "vehiculeselectriques.free.fr"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim,
> I don't remember if I already told it to you so if
> not:
>
> Man you are both an artist and a genius :^)
Hey Philippe
Boy do I have some of you guys duped 8^o LMAO!
As for artist, I will say that I just love to create
things, whether it's EV related, copper art, or stupid
stuff like Halloween projects (hey there is nothing
like making a 240 lb burly man fall to the ground
screaming like a little girl, LMAO 8^) It's always a
"cherry on top" if others enjoy it, but it's the
creating aspect of it that is my core reason.
As for the later statement I'll say that I've been
called a smart ass a number of times in my life but
that's about it 8^o I'm sure my wife would be "all
to" willing to jump on here and let you all know what
a moron I am, hehe.
My real reason for chiming in on this was, it reminded
me of the old Roadrunner cartoons with While E Coyote
and his professing to be a "super genius" as the
train's barreling towards him, LMAO! FWIW, thanks for
the kind words though 8^) As a quick note, (in case
there are those who wonder) I remain humble and firmly
grounded (okay most the time), as Amy does keep a
sharp needle on hand for those rare moments my head
can't fit through the door 8^P
> It' a pleasure to read most membres participation
> and this make me think
> sometime whishing to be in your side of the pond...
We all have our talents, and are all able to change
the world! It's sometimes the smallest of deeds that
can alter someones view or oppinion (hey look at me,
LMAO 8^) With that said, all it takes is for you to
effect just one local person for the EValanche to
start on your side of the pond!
It's my belief that we are all on the same team with
the same goals, and it's going to take each of us to
do our part if we want a quicker change. If that's
true, then each and EVery one of us matters, whether
you're a player, a cheerleader, a coach, or just a fan
of the game. If that applies as well, then it's just
a matter of whether you're willing to play your role
that's been given you 8^)
I'll end with, If you don't "believe" you'll make a
difference, than you probably never will!
Then again, I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy
but it sure beats being a sour puss all the time 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:23:52 -0500
From: "dave cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVs at Wal-Mart
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 12/18/07, Vivek Gani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> According to the press release, it's a lithium-powered smart car for
> $35,000. Sure it's pricey (which I 'd still expect), but that sounds highway
> capable. Seems walmart/sam's are breaking some eggs now to get us some nice
> omelettes (read: EVs for the masses) in the years to come.
>
A lot of people have expressed fear that big oil or auto manufacturers
are going to step in a buy out or squash the batteries we've been
waiting for. Well, Walmart getting invovled doesn't give me any warm
fuzzies either. Their reputation of pursuing lower prices at anyones
and everyones expense is not necessarily good for emerging
technologies. Check out the movie "The High Cost of Lower Prices."
Frontline also did a documentory that's available on DVD, "Is Wal-Mart
Good for America?".
I wonder if Smart can survive the relationship?
Dave Cover
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:49:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So if you have modern 2006-2008 cars you want to
> convert "without" manual
> transmission, and you don't want to go through the
> pain of trying to
> interface to the tranny, and you want the weight
> loss gained by ripping out
> the entire engine AND tranny, but you don't have
> $25K per hub motor (ugh)..
> what about getting a welder to just create a rear
> axle with a regular motor
> at each end? Could you mount some Azure Dynamics
> motors on each? Would you
> have a little pain or a big pain?
The problem is (if by regular motor, you're talking
about a series wound DC motor like the D & D motors)
the low RPM's it'll see if connected at a 1 to 1
ratio.
If you were to chain drive the axle with a better
ratio, the motors would be just fine with that, other
wise they'll get pist and smoking hot as they'd be
lugged down very hard at high current. They usually
want to see a couple / few thousand in the RPM range
in general operation. Although blown commutators are
the number one cause of brushed motor failures I've
seen, motors being overloaded are a close second and
are usually due to improper gear ratios which bogs the
motor down under low RPM's.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:58:31 -0800
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Chain drive sounds painful too. I suppose nobody ever built a motor system
you could just bolt onto the lug nuts as the motor would rip the lug nuts
off, right?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jim Husted
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 10:50 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] D+D 6.7" was Advanced DC 6.7 inch motor
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So if you have modern 2006-2008 cars you want to convert "without"
> manual transmission, and you don't want to go through the pain of
> trying to interface to the tranny, and you want the weight loss gained
> by ripping out the entire engine AND tranny, but you don't have $25K
> per hub motor (ugh)..
> what about getting a welder to just create a rear axle with a regular
> motor at each end? Could you mount some Azure Dynamics motors on each?
> Would you have a little pain or a big pain?
The problem is (if by regular motor, you're talking about a series wound DC
motor like the D & D motors) the low RPM's it'll see if connected at a 1 to
1 ratio.
If you were to chain drive the axle with a better ratio, the motors would be
just fine with that, other wise they'll get pist and smoking hot as they'd
be lugged down very hard at high current. They usually want to see a couple
/ few thousand in the RPM range in general operation. Although blown
commutators are the number one cause of brushed motor failures I've seen,
motors being overloaded are a close second and are usually due to improper
gear ratios which bogs the motor down under low RPM's.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
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_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:28:50 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/17/2007 8:49:19 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Subj: Re: [EVDL] Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT
> Date:12/17/2007 8:49:19 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> I wonder who is saying that the KillaCycle has the same batteries as
> the Current Eliminator? Not at all true and I've now seen it in print
> more than once.
>
> Bill D.
>
I think Rod wilde is the latest culprit. Dennis
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:39:44 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] New NEDRA record (was: Altairnano batteries
vaporware?? NOT)
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/18/2007 7:55:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> : [EVDL] New NEDRA record (was: Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT)
> Date:12/18/2007 7:55:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> At 06:07 AM 12/18/2007, you wrote:
> >What % does NHRA require ?
>
> As I said in my earlier note, quite awhile back NEDRA moved
> to 1% to match the NHRA rules. Thus, the rules for setting records
> are IDENTICAL for NEDRA and NHRA.
>
> Two runs during the same event.
>
> Quickest one is the record if within 1%.
>
> Second quickest one is the record otherwise.
>
> They require two runs because in a single run there might be
> a fluke problem with the timing system, like a mouse running in front
> of the lights, for example. They allow the fastest run if you can
> prove it wasn't a fluke by "almost" doing it again. Makes sense if
> you think about it.
>
> As others have said, there is no doubt that Dennis will get
> the machine faster once he figures out how to properly modify his
> dragster for all the new HP. (He mentioned putting on bigger tires,
> for example.) Thus, it is not a big deal that his official record for
> this moment is 8.239 instead of 8.108, since that will only be
> temporary, I'm very sure.
>
> I keep reading about some sort of "NHRA's Super Pro world
> speed record for electric dragsters". Where the heck did that quote come
> from?
>
> Bill Dube
It seems that the press people combined what they heard the track anoncer
said while I was racing for the record that I was leading the summit super pro
points chase last year.At some point they will clear it up. Dennis
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:49:11 -0800
From: "Sam Shepherd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] vac. switch
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Would any one know the proper wiring for my vac. regulater switch that works
with my vac. pump [as to on and off]. I got it from EV parts and as ususl it
came with no info. Also as usual there too busy to respond!
There are three contact points, two gold and one silver it also has an
adjustment screw on the bottom to set the "on and off" sequence.
I would like to know what goes where?
Thanks,
Sam
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:56:00 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/16/2007 10:06:43 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> : [EVDL] Altairnano batteries vaporware?? NOT
> Date:12/16/2007 10:06:43 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> WHOOOOEEEE!
> Congratulations Dennis!
>
> Rush
> Tucson, AZ
> 2000 Insight, 66.7lmpg, #4965
> www.ironandwood.org
> www.Airphibian.com
> www.TEVA2.com
>
Call me Rush oe E mail me off list Dennis
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:52:48 -0500
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] danfrederick getting better
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On Dec 18, 2007, at 11:47 AM, David Sharpe wrote:
> I think Dan is making an effort to be usefull to the list. Give him a
> chance.
> David
Yea, that's because he's running out of people to insult. Let's see,
first Otmar, then John, Jim, Bill, Roderick and Dennis.
Interesting that alot of these guys all have something in
common . . . like putting EVs out there in the public eye with their
own reputations on the line.
I'll give him a chance when he spends less time hiding behind the
keyboard insulting those in the grassroots EV movement and more time
actually doing something.
Words are not as impressive as action.
Chip Gribben
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:00:13 -0800 (PST)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] One Cool Day At The Drag Strip
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
thanks for all the articles. Looks like you guys have
a lot of interesting vehicles that should make it to
www.electricdragin.com I am offering transportation
of cars, cycles and scooters, go karts, electrathon
etc to all within 500 mi of San Diego so there is no
excuse for not registering. We are getting close to
the event and need to know who and what are coming so
we can plan a schedule.
--- mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.dm3electrics.com/
>
> Check out the new article about Dennis and the CE-V
> at the bottom of the DM3 site.
> mario
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
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End of EV Digest, Vol 5, Issue 56
*********************************
