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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Race Car Replicas - Superlite Roadster (John Mogelnicki)
   2. Re: DC/DC with flexible pack voltage? (Chuck Homic)
   3. Re: Todd PC 20 Question DC - DC (shred)
   4. Re: DC/DC with flexible pack voltage? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   5. Re: DC/DC with flexible pack voltage? (Adrian DeLeon)
   6. Mike's email going offline ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   7. Pre-BBB warm-up race w/ film crew this Sunday in Miami
      (Charles Whalen)
   8. combo battery packs (m gol)


Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:08:26 -0500
From: "John Mogelnicki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Race Car Replicas - Superlite Roadster
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

We don't have a photo of the car with the completed body, but the car is
You can see photos of the ICE version on

On 1/10/08, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it real??  The photo looks like an artist's rendition to me.
> > I don't know the official charter, but if it's informative and
> > interesting, and describes a real EV, I'm not offended.  We know it's
> > got a Warp 9, PFC30, 24 optimas, estimated range and top speed, weighs
> > about 1 ton.  That helps the EV community with a data point, that will
> > be more valuable when testing provides real world performance figures.
> >
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message.  By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:11:46 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC with flexible pack voltage?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Josh Creel wrote:
> Could this system be reversed to put voltage back into you drive pack one 
> set of 12vdc batts. at a time from an alternator off the shaft of your 
> motor, say if you were pulling the ev somewhere or even using a pusher 
> trailer,  or is there a more effecient way of doing this?
I assume a generator that's actually wired for pack voltage would be 
much more efficient and cheaper.  But this would be such a rare use 
case, I wouldn't imagine it being useful at all.  This would kind of be 
like regen braking without a controller (and thus not very controllable).


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:09:54 -0800 (PST)
From: shred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Todd PC 20 Question DC - DC
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Most of the time when I'm running my car the pack voltage is between 105 -
so the Iota 55a unit with a 33ah agm aux battery should work. 
Also when the car is parked, charging or not the DC-DC is connected and
charging the aux battery.
I don't want more then 13.6 volts going to the aux battery when there is no
load on it though.
I read that this Iota unit can be set to output 14.2 when the key is on and
drop down to 13.6v when off.

Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> Do yourself a BIG favor and throw a current shunt into your 12V system.  
> Then run your car and see how much 12V power you really need. You might be  
> surprised how much it is - most cars have 60-90A alternators for a reason!
> Just running lights & a heater fan is something like 250W (18A @ 13.8V) in  
> my car. Add the rear defroster, crank the fan up to HI and it's more like  
> 400W (29A @ 13.8V). It is my firm belief that most EVs have undersized  
> DC/DC converters and rely on the SLI battery too much.
> The IOTA will definitely cut out before you hit 90V input... My U1 size  
> deep cycle garden tractor SLI battery was good for about 30 minutes at  
> night. Had to make sure I topped it up the next day with a 12V charger or  
> by leaving the keys in my car for a couple of hours.
> -Adrian
>> I was thinking I could lose the battery with the IOTA 55A but my pack
>> voltage can drop below 90 under cold weather, low SOC & hard acceleration
>> which could be a problem driving at night. I think my vacuum pump draws a
>> bit too. So I guess with my pack voltage of only 120 I should have a aux
>> battery in the system too?
>> My curtis hasn't cut out even at 45 volts.
>> What is the IOTA boost plug?
>> Neal
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:20:36 -0500
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC with flexible pack voltage?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

The expense is in the input range. The current capability adds some 
expense, but is dwarfed by the cost of tracking that large of input 
voltage range. I chose 140 amps because many OEM cars come with 90 to 
140 amp alternators. My personal conversion project, a Pontiac Fiero 
has a 140 amp alternator, so I want to maintain that capability and 
Many EVs use an aux battery to fill in for generally poor DC/DC convert 
reliability. I would like to provide a system with enough headroom, 
both on the input side as well as the output side to be at least OEM 
automotive standard reliable.
Certainly, a DC/DC converter could be designed with less current 
capability, but the cost reduction would not be linear.

So, ignoring the output current, what do you think would be a workable 
price for a 70 to 500 volt input, OEM automotive reliability DC/DC 
converter would be?


-----Original Message-----
From: (-Phil-) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <>
Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:53 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC with flexible pack voltage?

140 amps is nice, but that is a LOT of headroom. Could you offer a 
model for less?

Personally, half that would be fine. The biggest load in my EV is the
blower fan @ 28a. I have never seen any combination of accessories pull
more than 68a peak.

----- Original Message -----
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC with flexible pack voltage?

> This certainly seems to be a weak spot in EV components. Therefore, I
> am developing a DC/DC converter that has an input range of 70 to 500
> volts with an output of 14.7 volts from 0 to 140 amps. This is a Hot
> Juice Electric project and the progress can be monitored at:
> I bring this up for feedback.
> At this time, a working prototype is in testing. All good so far 
> for one problem. There is approximately $1,200 in parts alone. I am
> afraid that adding labor and enough profit to maintain sustainability
> would push the price out of most peoples range.
> The project is now being refined to maintain the current 
> and reliability while reducing the cost. The progress is encouraging,
> but I think it would help if I could get some feedback.
> So, I present this question to the list: What would be a reasonable
> price for a DC/DC converter (I call it Chassis Power Module) that 
> maintain 14.7 volts output from 0 to 140 amps with an input range of 
> to 500 volts?
> Check out the website for additional information.
> Keep the Juice flowing!
> Ken
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <>
> Sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:55 am
> Subject: [EVDL] DC/DC with flexible pack voltage?
> For my conversion, I'm planning on a Z1K-HV and PFC-20. This gives me
> some real options on batteries in the future.
> The Z1K-HV gives 72-300V range
> The PFC-20 gives 12-360V range
> (These are both nominal voltages, right?)
> So this combo can handle quite a range of pack voltages. I can have 10
> or 12 or 16 12V lead-acids (25 if I add more wheels to carry the
> weight). Or I can use 93 of the 3.2V50Ah headway packs that are being
> talked about, or some other lithium tech when it becomes affordable
> (maybe my 2nd or 3rd pack). Or something in the middle. And I can use
> these parts on my next EV once the current frame rusts to its grave.
> (This is all speculation. There is a 100% chance my first pack will be
> lead.) Even for the lead pack, having some breathing room will be
> nice. If I find my range to be 2-3 miles shorter than I'd like, I 
> squeeze in "just one more" battery (early enough in the pack's life
> cycle to make that not a terrible idea, hopefully), without blowing 
> voltage limits.
> Thing is, I can't find a DC/DC converter that's equally flexible.
> The Iota units at evsource are 108-170V or 208-320V. I assume because
> they're just switching power supplies meant for 120 or 240VAC usage.
> The ones EVA sells don't seem to go above 144V. I know this is 
> the cheapest electrical component, so maybe I shouldn't worry about it
> and buy another one when I change pack voltages in the future. I also
> don't know if these are nominal voltages or absolute limits. If 
> absolute limits, then a 168V lead acid pack would not be an option 
> the lower voltage Iota unit. The Brusa units look good, but the cost
> more than the Zilla. Ouch. Running without a DC converter is an
> option, but not a good one. A converter that outputs 14V for 10-14V
> input might be a compromise to using the accessory battery on its own,
> and keep the lights up bright. (Costs about $150) But now I'm just
> rambling.
> Is anyone else thinking about what they have to do to switch battery
> technology in the future, or are you just expecting to configure 
> packs for the same voltage as your lead packs?
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:25:00 -0800
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC/DC with flexible pack voltage?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;

Actually I was thinking of a single DC/DC powered by each traction battery  
in turn. Switch input batteries every few seconds to share the load. It  
would have wiring similar to your battery balancer. Your interpretation of  
my idea is also interesting as it balances the traction pack, but only on  

> Adrian DeLeon suggested a related method; you could have N small DC/DC
> converters, one per battery. They all have 12-14vdc outputs, which are
> all connected together (thru a diode and fuse, as mentioned above) to
> your 12v accessory battery. If you arrange it right, these converters
> load their respective batteries according to their state of charge; so
> the highest-voltage battery delivers the most current. This would give
> you a DC/DC converter and a battery balancing system.


Message: 6
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:56:48 -0800
Subject: [EVDL] Mike's email going offline
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=iso-8859-1


[NOTICE: your are receiving this auto-response because you sent me an email.]

due to a losing battle with spammers, i will be discontinuing email on the 
following accounts effective February 1st, 2008.  if you wish to email me after 
that date and have only addresses for me that are listed below, please send me 
an email BEFORE the deadline and ask for a new address.


kind regards,
mike sandman


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:48:33 -0500
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Pre-BBB warm-up race w/ film crew this Sunday in Miami
To: "Florida EAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,  "EV Discussion List"
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="Windows-1252"

Everyone is invited -- racers and spectactors alike -- to a pre-BBB warm-up
race this coming Sunday, Jan. 13, at Countyline Dragway
( in Miami from noon to 5pm.  For those of you
racing at BBB (, this will be a good opportunity to get
in a few practice runs on the track prior to BBB on Jan. 25-26.

We've got a film crew coming down from Washington DC to film Lowell Simmons
and his students from Miramar High School's EV program (
at the school's shop, working on the car, on Saturday and then racing at the
track on Sunday.  This will be for an upcoming national broadcast called
"Forecast Earth".  To add to the excitement and atmosphere at the track on
Sunday, it would be great to get some EV enthusiasts as spectators as well
as other EV racers out there; the producer has said "the more the merrier".
The filming will be primarily centered around Lowell, his students, and
their EVs, so I doubt there will be much chance for others to have on-camera
interviews as such, but there should be a decent opportunity for others to
be filmed briefly with their EVs and possibly running down the track as

The weather forecast is calling for the possibility of a front moving
through on Sunday.  If it looks like it will be a "wet" front (as opposed to
our many winter "dry" fronts here in South Florida) with a good chance of a
rain-out on Sunday, then the back-up plan is to do the filming at the track
on Saturday evening, from 6pm to 10pm.  You can get the latest info by
coming to the Florida EAA's January meeting this Saturday, Jan. 12, from
9:30am to 12:30pm, at Coastal Tire & Auto in Boca Raton.  A map with
directions to Coastal Tire can be found here:  All are welcome, both
at the Florida EAA meeting on Saturday morning in Boca Raton and at the
track on Sunday afternoon in Miami.


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:55:30 -0900
From: "m gol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] combo battery packs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I have seen two parallel banks of batteries where one would be flooded lead,
and the other would be orbitals. And there has been good experiences with

I was wondering if I tried that with a 100Ah flooded acid pack and an 18Ah
LiFePO4, both running at 48 volts.

I got this idea from Mike Barkley so I am bracing myself for a response. His
method seems like a lot more work, but I appreciate his effort and

I'd probably use on of those "double throw" contactors to connect the two
packs when the key is on.



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End of EV Digest, Vol 6, Issue 32

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