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Today's Topics:
1. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND - Fatal Road Accident Stats
(David Roden (Akron OH USA))
2. Re: Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as worlds
fi rst crash-proof, long range, f (Jeff Shanab)
3. Battery Balancing (Jeff Shanab)
4. Re: Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as worlds
fi rst crash-proof, long range, f (JRP3)
5. Current Eliminator on Vox TV ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
6. Re: Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as worlds
fi rst crash-proof, long range, f ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
7. Re: Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as worlds
fi rst crash-proof, long range, f (joe)
8. Re: Solder joint integrity (John in Ma)
9. Re: Zilla Patch cable and ferrite cube placement (John in Ma)
10. Heads-up Reaction Time & 2008 EV Drag Racing Season Openers
(John Wayland)
11. KW=amps (Jack Riggi)
12. Re: KW=amps (Morgan LaMoore)
13. Re: KW=amps (Dan Frederiksen)
14. Re: KW=amps (Jack Riggi)
15. 144V kelly controller (almost) (Dan Frederiksen)
16. Re: Heads-up Reaction Time & 2008 EV Drag Racing Season
Openers ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
17. Re: Heads-up Reaction Time & 2008 EV Drag Racing Season
Openers (John Wayland)
18. Re: Battery Balancing (Roger Stockton)
19. Re: [sfeva] What is happening at Tesla? (John Thornton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:02:56 -0500
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND - Fatal Road Accident Stats
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Despite the last paragraph, this thread is not directly related to EVs and
thus is off topic. Please drop it.
Thanks,
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:19:32 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as
worlds fi rst crash-proof, long range, f
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Sounds like a rupture would be an explosive event n it's own right. If
there is that much pressure then there is potential for shrapnel during
explosive dissasembly.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:39:46 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Battery Balancing
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I don't know about the dekas but the orbitals I have have a little
platinum pellet inside to recombine the gas created during chargeing,
these are good to about 1.5 Amps. If yours are the same, then limit the
charge to 1.5Amps and let charge until 2 hours past the 14.77Volt full
point. Voltage is not that critical at this point and may go as high as
17. It is when you exceed the recombiner's capability that the vents
kick in forever loosing capacity.
AGMs can handle large charge amps up to about 80% soc, after that you
must control it. Does your charger have current control?
I have rudman regs and a few have gone out(got wet) The remainder have
been suffient to control the charger and once in a while I disable them
setting the charger to 1.5 amp and let it equalize for 2 hours. Maybe
you could buy a rudman for every other battery and connect the opto
output to the current control of your charger.
I agree that the 8.8 is probably a reversed cell. I did this on my
previous pack, it seems especially easy to do. I was able to turn it
back and it remained one of my strongest batteries. ( put it on a 1 amp
charge for a really long time until the voltage jumped up then charged
normally.)
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 06:46:32 -0800 (PST)
From: JRP3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as
worlds fi rst crash-proof, long range, f
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Ian Hooper-2 wrote:
>
> Actually I often thought a neat way to build a car might be solid
> polystyrene mouldings for the body with outer fibreglass or carbon
> fibre coating. The polystyrene would provide some structural strength
> allowing the fibreglass to be thinner (i.e lighter & cheaper), and I
> imagine polystyrene would act as a pretty decent crumple zone in a
> crash (depending on density used). And of course it would be far
> cheaper than tooling up production for a metal car body.
>
That's actually the way many people build one-off projects, foam insulating
boards finished with fiberglass and epoxy. Pretty strong and lightweight.
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Low-cost-Inflatable-electric-car-is-announced-as-worlds-fi-rst-crash-proof%2C-long-range%2C-f-tp14945149s25542p14982437.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:12:28 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Current Eliminator on Vox TV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The CE will be on VOX TV today in Austria, Germany and Switzerland on a
program called Auto Mobil. Its a 1 hour program 15min commercial and 45 minutes
on
the CEs record breaking runs in Tucson on Dec. 30.07. I would sure like to get
a copy of the whole hour including commercials.
Dennis Berube
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:26:21 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as
worlds fi rst crash-proof, long range, f
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Not to comepletely flog the idea I can think of a couple of instances where a
flat pack inflatable car might have some inherent value...like on manned mars
missions, or air droppable rescue or research craft in desolate areas or those
damaged by natural disaster....
I still think it is ludicris for an everyday car, and I just don't see it ever
being accepted in the mainstream...even if it manged to get past the NHTSA
_____________________________________________________________
Click to shop and compare great deals on trucks.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4sxKsjlBtcbGQb5LM2MMcfbkZmlsyv9rW27yxakKiq8glPrR/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:15:11 -0800
From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as
worlds fi rst crash-proof, long range, f
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Sorry, Peter, I don't think it's a joke - just not very practical!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Low cost Inflatable electric car is announced as worlds
fi rst crash-proof, long range, f
> Other than the original poster, I think the whole list believes it's a
> joke.
>
>> Okay... I just have to point out that they declare their intention to be
>> the first company to ship "flat pack car's", and I the only one that
>> thinks this might possibly be a joke?
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008
> 7:32 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:23:47 -0500
From: John in Ma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Solder joint integrity
To: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
First off many thanks to all that provided inout.
On Jan 20, 2008, at 12:08 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
> From: John in Ma
>> I sheared the threaded connector of the negative input to my
>> DC-DC converter. I took the unit apart and discovered that the
>> thread, is actually a screw that is soldered to a board with
>> the threads sticking out.
>
> As a rule, solder is too weak to depend on for mechanical strength.
> It would be a poor design if nothing held that screw except solder
> to the PC board.
>
> A more reasonable design would have had a nut or other threaded
> part for mechanical support for the screw to tighten into.
Actually that is the way it is set up from the factory.
Screw head soldered to PC board, threaded part through PC board,
fastened with a nut. Then 2 flat washers, locking washer, 2nd nut.
The input and output wires connect with ring terminals between the
flat washers.
> Was the screw copper or red brass (brass with a high copper
> content)? This would have been a reasonable material if this screw
> is expected to carry significant current. Copper and red brass are
> pretty soft, so it wouldn't be difficult to shear them off.
Well it was silver in color, but I was trying to make the connection
in a tight spot and was both over tightening AND levering by mistake.
(Therefore the unthinkably stupid comment in my original description
of the accident)
>
>> As a fix I soldered a piece of wire to the stub of the screw.
>
> That is a reasonable temporary fix. Longer term, I would probably
> remove the broken screw, replace it with a new screw and nut, and
> use this screw and nut to clamp a ring terminal to the foil on the
> PC board. This ring terminal would have your external wire crimped
> and/or soldered into it.
This is the first thing I have ever soldered so it will likely end up
being a very temporary fix. If I don't want attempt the permanent as
described, what kind of shop should I look for that would have
someone with the necessary skills?
>> I have since reconnected to the traction pack and tested the unit.
>> With the DC-DC output connected to my 12 v accessory battery I turned
>> my blower fan on high, put my headlights on high beam, and let it
>> run. This caused the DC-DC to operate close to or at its rated output
>> of 400 watts (13.5 v at 28 to 29 amps). After a while I noticed the
>> same odor that was produced during the soldering process.
>>
>> Is this a sign that I am on borrowed time and the joint will shortly
>> fail?
>
> It could be a sign that something is getting hot, though not
> necessarily your repaired connection. After running it at full load
> a while, I would shut it off, disconnect it, and feel for any hot
> spots. Anything that is too hot to touch is likely to be a failure
> point in the future.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:30:20 -0500
From: John in Ma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Patch cable and ferrite cube placement
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Otmar is apparently scanning the list.
He replied offline that
"Anywhere on the cable is fine"
I thought I would post to the list so it gets archived .
On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:54 PM, Ralph Merwin wrote:
> John in Ma writes:
>>
>> But I think I want a longer cable. The archives indicate I can use a
>> longer Cat 5 cable so long as I also move the ferrite cube to the
>> new cable. What I'm unsure of is whether or not the cube has to be in
>> the middle of the cable like it is on the cable that was shipped from
>> the factory.
>
> John,
>
> I asked Otmar the same question a couple of years ago when I was
> planning
> on using a shorter cable. He said "It doesn't seem to matter"
> where on
> the cable the ferrite is installed.
>
> I ended up using the cable that came with the Zilla, but I'm pretty
> sure
> I moved the ferrite on the cable.
>
> Ralph
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 08:48:46 -0800
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Heads-up Reaction Time & 2008 EV Drag Racing Season
Openers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hello to All,
Each morning in the mid-20 degree pre-dawn darkness as I drench the
service truck's big windshield with tepid water to melt-away the ice and
start my forklift-repairing workday, I have visions of warm Florida,
warm south California, and clouds of EV-generated tire smoke!
OK, now with that out of the way...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>John in Ma originally wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't mean to start a heads up vs bracket racing war, but is some
>>>of the IMPRESSIVE spanking off the line that WZ gives the Maserati
>>>driver reaction time or is mostly the cars?
>>>
John Wayland responded:
>>>Reaction time does not affect a car's 1/8 or 1/4 mile ET and trap speed,
>>>so a guy (or gal) could sit at the light and wait 15 seconds, then
>>>launch and still turn a 13 second ET. Of course, if you're bracket
>>>racing..
>>>
Then this from Dennis Berube:
>>>
>>>********John,You are Wrong. In Heads up racing (the way you want to race my
>>>S10,)the reaction time does count. Watch any of the NHRA Top Fuel races on
>>>ESPN
>>>and you will see holeshot wins all the time.
>>>
Dennis, in 'ALL' the heads up racing I've done since I was in my teens
at PIR, Woodburn, and later on at Sacramento Raceway, Las Vegas
Motorplex, Speedworld Dragstrip, Firebird International, Bandimere,
etc....even after the tree says 'GO' with the green light, until the
vehicle's front wheels actually break the light beam, the timing
computers 'do not' begin recording the ET, thus a quick or s-l-o-w
reaction time has no effect...zero... on the ET and or trap speed. In
the everyday heads up style racing thousands around the country do on
the weekends with their drive-it-to-the-track drag machines, this is how
it works. This is the context in which I made my comments.
Now, perhaps you can educate me on some series of points type racing (of
which I have not taken part in) where they 'do' start the timing
computers solely on the green light?? If this is the case, then yes,
reaction time would definitely count. I have never seen this type of
heads up racing, or maybe I have and have just not realized that in
professional type (they make money racing) heads up style drag racing
this is how they do it. It would be great if you could elaborate on
this. Is this the way Top fuel runs their heads up racing?
>>>Wish you were bringing the Zombie to San Diego.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
Yeah, me too, but my wishes these days have expanded to something a lot
more important than racing, so that takes first priority for me right
now. I love San Diego. I love the smell of electrically shredded rubber
from a tire ignition sequence. I love racing against you, Dennis...still
vividly remember how badly CE left me at the wheel of the Zombie at the
light out in the desert of Goodyear, AZ, now so many years ago! I'm
anxious to even the score, and firmly believe that no matter what you do
to that welder-hauler of yours, you'll be looking at WZ's taillights all
the way down the track :-) However, for the next two or three months
though, I still need to stay close to home. Believe me, if I could, I'd
love to be rolling up in sunny San Diego this coming weekend to show you
how to make a street car run a quick 1/8 mile ET!
By the way Dennis, got that S10 under 7.1 in the 1/8 yet? I believe you
can, even with pump, if you'd drop it's tall gears and put in a 4.86 or
5.14 and slap on the fattest meats you can fit in back! Also, what's
your S10's best 1/4 mile ET to date on pump? Have you hit the 11s yet?
Have you beaten the Zombie's 11.8 on pump yet? Rudman tells me you
have... that you do it all the time, and that you've already run quicker
than 7.1 in eighth with your S10...is any of this correct? If so, please
post your 1/8 and 1/4 ET and trap speed so I can congratulate you :-) If
not, please call Rudman back up and set him straight on this :-)
All kidding and jabbing aside, I wish the best for Dennis and all of my
friends racing at both ends of the USA this coming last weekend of
January! Be safe, have fun, and post some street legal ETs that will
have the gassers dropping their jaws!
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:10:28 -0500
From: "Jack Riggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] KW=amps
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does any body know around how many amps there is when you are driving say 55
using around 7 kw's of power? Jack R.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:04:23 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] KW=amps
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It depends on the voltage. Just take kW*1000/voltage to get amps.
For example, if you have a 144V battery:
7*1000/144=49 amps
This is 7kW of electrical power coming from the batteries. If you are
looking at 7kW of mechanical power to the road, you will have to
divide that by your efficiency to get the actual current, which will
be higher.
-Morgan LaMoore
On Jan 20, 2008 11:10 AM, Jack Riggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does any body know around how many amps there is when you are driving say 55
> using around 7 kw's of power? Jack R.
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:46:32 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] KW=amps
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Jack Riggi wrote:
> Does any body know around how many amps there is when you are driving say 55
> using around 7 kw's of power? Jack R.
>
depends on your battery pack, the gearing and the motor design. (I take
it you mean the dreadful unit miles per hour which is around 90km/h)
for a given setup the gearing of the motor shifts the balance between
current and voltage. if you shift up in gear the motor turns slower at a
given speed, the current goes up and the voltage goes down accordingly.
so the balance you can change with gearing.
as an example, Lee Hart has driven around 100km/h cruise at around 80V
and 120A in his 1045kg Renault 5 with an AdvancedDC6.7" L91 motor. I
think it was 3rd gear. maybe 4th
7kw could be 70V 100A or 100V 70A depending on gearing and motor design.
you could imagine a motor wound with more thinner wires (for higher
voltage bias) and then it could be 350V 20A. again depending on gearing.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:22:43 -0500
From: "Jack Riggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] KW=amps
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
thanks Jack
----- Original Message -----
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] KW=amps
> It depends on the voltage. Just take kW*1000/voltage to get amps.
>
> For example, if you have a 144V battery:
>
> 7*1000/144=49 amps
>
> This is 7kW of electrical power coming from the batteries. If you are
> looking at 7kW of mechanical power to the road, you will have to
> divide that by your efficiency to get the actual current, which will
> be higher.
>
> -Morgan LaMoore
>
> On Jan 20, 2008 11:10 AM, Jack Riggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Does any body know around how many amps there is when you are driving say
>> 55 using around 7 kw's of power? Jack R.
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:18:05 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] 144V kelly controller (almost)
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
it seems someone brought it out before Kelly themselves did
http://www.beepscom.com/product_p/co-cev-144v-400.htm
and at a ridiculous price. I hope Kelly will have a more realistic bid
can't we just get a single product done right...
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:14:28 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads-up Reaction Time & 2008 EV Drag Racing
Season Openers
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 1/20/2008 9:48:24 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> n Time &2008 EV Drag Racing Season Openers
> Date:1/20/2008 9:48:24 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> To:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Each morning in the mid-20 degree pre-dawn darkness as I drench the
> service truck's big windshield with tepid water to melt-away the ice and
> start my forklift-repairing workday, I have visions of warm Florida,
> warm south California, and clouds of EV-generated tire smoke!
>
> OK, now with that out of the way...
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >>John in Ma originally wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I don't mean to start a heads up vs bracket racing war, but is some
> >>>of the IMPRESSIVE spanking off the line that WZ gives the Maserati
> >>>driver reaction time or is mostly the cars?
> >>>
> John Wayland responded:
>
> >>>Reaction time does not affect a car's 1/8 or 1/4 mile ET and trap speed,
> >>>so a guy (or gal) could sit at the light and wait 15 seconds, then
> >>>launch and still turn a 13 second ET. Of course, if you're bracket
> >>>racing..
> >>>
>
> Then this from Dennis Berube:
>
> >>>
> >>>********John,You are Wrong. In Heads up racing (the way you want to race
> my
> >>>S10,)the reaction time does count. Watch any of the NHRA Top Fuel races
> on ESPN
> >>>and you will see holeshot wins all the time.
> >>>
>
> Dennis, in 'ALL' the heads up racing I've done since I was in my teens
> at PIR, Woodburn, and later on at Sacramento Raceway, Las Vegas
> Motorplex, Speedworld Dragstrip, Firebird International, Bandimere,
> etc....even after the tree says 'GO' with the green light, until the
> vehicle's front wheels actually break the light beam, the timing
> computers 'do not' begin recording the ET, thus a quick or s-l-o-w
> reaction time has no effect...zero... on the ET and or trap speed. In
> the everyday heads up style racing thousands around the country do on
> the weekends with their drive-it-to-the-track drag machines, this is how
> it works. This is the context in which I made my comments.
>
> Now, perhaps you can educate me on some series of points type racing (of
> which I have not taken part in) where they 'do' start the timing
> computers solely on the green light?? If this is the case, then yes,
> reaction time would definitely count. I have never seen this type of
> heads up racing, or maybe I have and have just not realized that in
> professional type (they make money racing) heads up style drag racing
> this is how they do it. It would be great if you could elaborate on
> this. Is this the way Top fuel runs their heads up racing?
>
Friday nite bring it to the track type races around the country the quicker
car does win but the cars are very mismatched and its easy to race a car that
you know you can beat. With the pro races
however reaction time counts as well as the cars performance.The winner is the
1st car to the finish line.Its the way we should faceoff later this year when
we both have lithum batteries.
> >>>Wish you were bringing the Zombie to San Diego.....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
> Yeah, me too, but my wishes these days have expanded to something a lot
> more important than racing, so that takes first priority for me right
> now. I love San Diego. I love the smell of electrically shredded rubber
> from a tire ignition sequence. I love racing against you, Dennis...still
> vividly remember how badly CE left me at the wheel of the Zombie at the
> light out in the desert of Goodyear, AZ, now so many years ago! I'm
> anxious to even the score, and firmly believe that no matter what you do
> to that welder-hauler of yours, you'll be looking at WZ's taillights all
> the way down the track :-) However, for the next two or three months
> though, I still need to stay close to home. Believe me, if I could, I'd
> love to be rolling up in sunny San Diego this coming weekend to show you
> how to make a street car run a quick 1/8 mile ET!
>
The welding section of the truck is pretty cool with everything runing off
thr traction pack.(plasma cutter,mig allum/steel/stainless and tig/stick)The
truck also runs the onboard compressor.
> By the way Dennis, got that S10 under 7.1 in the 1/8 yet? I believe you
> can, even with pump, if you'd drop it's tall gears and put in a 4.86 or
> 5.14 and slap on the fattest meats you can fit in back! Also, what's
> your S10's best 1/4 mile ET to date on pump? Have you hit the 11s yet?
> Have you beaten the Zombie's 11.8 on pump yet? Rudman tells me you
> have... that you do it all the time, and that you've already run quicker
> than 7.1 in eighth with your S10...is any of this correct? If so, please
> post your 1/8 and 1/4 ET and trap speed so I can congratulate you :-) If
> not, please call Rudman back up and set him straight on this :-)
>
The S10 Smoke Screen has only run 12.62 at 108.91mph.The 1/8 mile 8.001 at
86.17mph.During the December rush to get my Current Eliminator dragsters record
back(the more important record for me) the S10 sat still.I am once again
working to inprove its times and mphs.It looks though you are still the
undisputed
king of EV street racers.But do understand you are in my crosshairs!!
> All kidding and jabbing aside, I wish the best for Dennis and all of my
> friends racing at both ends of the USA this coming last weekend of
> January! Be safe, have fun, and post some street legal ETs that will
> have the gassers dropping their jaws!
>
> See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:19:14 -0800
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads-up Reaction Time & 2008 EV Drag Racing
Season Openers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hello to Dennis and All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Friday nite bring it to the track type races around the country the quicker
>car does win but the cars are very mismatched and its easy to race a car that
>you know you can beat.
>
Thanks for pointing out that I was in fact, correct, when in the context
of my email about heads up street legal drag racing at the PIR track I
wrote:
"I agree when watching the video of the launch sequence, that it appears
the guy in the Maserati was asleep at the wheel...
Reaction time does not affect a car's 1/8 or 1/4 mile ET and trap speed,
so a guy (or gal) could sit at the light and wait 15 seconds, then
launch and still turn a 13 second ET...In heads up racing, the quickest car
wins, it's that simple.
The reaction time has no effect on the ET or trap speed. It always
'looks' better to have a quick reaction time of course, so you won't be
perceived as getting your doors so badly blown off."
>With the pro races
>however reaction time counts as well as the cars performance. The winner is
>the
>1st car to the finish line.
>
Thanks for this. I wasn't aware that in the pro racing sector, this is
how it's done. This definitely adds to the excitement and factors-in the
driver's abilities as well.
>Its the way we should faceoff later this year when
>we both have lithum batteries.
>
>
I see it two ways:
(1) For advancing the cause of EVs, it's the best ET that matters. This
is where I am, and have always been. I want to change the perception
that all EVs are slow, dull, and boring. I don't need to prove that "I'
am slow, dull, and boring :-)
(2) For proving who's got a quick EV 'and' who's the best drag racing
skills, the 'first across the finish line' type of heads up race is best
at advancing a particular person's abilities. This is 'not' where I'm
at, though I 'do' take pride in what I am able to accomplish every now
and then :-) I'm pretty sure that in this type of race, providing you
get your S10 into the same ET range as WZ, you'd kick my butt...although
I 'did' out-do you with your hand-held reaction time tester :-)
With the above said, I'll race your S10 when you think it's ready for
prime time and has a chance against White Zombie. Heck, I'd race you
right now, but I think we both agree it would be a bit of a massacre
:-) I'll also look forward to having Tim sit it out while you and I
with comparable performing machines (if you can ever get welder-hauler
into the 11s) duke it out on the strip in pro style 'first across the
finish line' type of heads up race ...that would be fun! When you beat
me, and it's most likely you would, it would be an honor to have been
eliminated by Mr. Kilowatt!
>The welding section of the truck is pretty cool with everything runing off
>thr traction pack.(plasma cutter,mig allum/steel/stainless and tig/stick)The
>truck also runs the onboard compressor.
>
>
>
You gotta love this!
>
>The S10 Smoke Screen has only run 12.62 at 108.91mph. The 1/8 mile 8.001 at
>86.17mph.
>
I thought so :-) Thanks for clearing this up. Now, could you pa-leeeze
call up Rudman to shut him up?
By the way, saying 'only run 12.62 @ 108 mph' doesn't give credit where
credit is due. That is an incredible ET and trap speed for
a mid-sized pickup on lead acid batteries! In fact, I believe you're
just the 3rd person in the world to take a full-bodied EV into the 12s
(Rod Wilde was the 1st, and also the 1st deep into the 11s) and just the
2nd to take a street-legal full bodied EV into the 12s...quite an
accomplishment! I bet when you run 12s at the strip with your electric
pickup, a lot of gassers are absolutely blown away! I sure wish you
could have brought it up to the NEDRA 10th Anniversary races this past
August :-(
>During the December rush to get my Current Eliminator dragsters record
>back(the more important record for me) the S10 sat still.
>
Understandable. I'm in a rush to get lithium back into WZ 'before' you
drop it into your pickup. When we do, count on 10s for White Zombie!
>It looks though you are still the undisputed
>king of EV street racers.
>
Thanks.
>But do understand you are in my crosshairs!!
>
>
>
I love it!!!
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:59:17 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Balancing
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I don't know about the dekas but the orbitals I have have a
> little platinum pellet inside to recombine the gas created
> during chargeing, these are good to about 1.5 Amps. If yours
> are the same, then limit the charge to 1.5Amps and let charge
> until 2 hours past the 14.77Volt full point. Voltage is not
> that critical at this point and may go as high as 17. It is
> when you exceed the recombiner's capability that the vents
> kick in forever loosing capacity.
An important detail here is that the recombination becomes less efficient as
the voltage gets higher, so as the voltage gets higher, it may have a harder
and harder time keeping up. The result is that you can't say the recombiners
are "good to about 1.5A", since what they are "good to" will drop as the
voltage increases.
> I have rudman regs and a few have gone out(got wet) The
> remainder have been suffient to control the charger and once
> in a while I disable them setting the charger to 1.5 amp and
> let it equalize for 2 hours. Maybe you could buy a rudman for
> every other battery and connect the opto output to the
> current control of your charger.
I would strongly advise against this! Use a reg on *every* module. If you
watch the individual module voltages during charge, you will find that when the
reg on one module kicks in the voltage on someother module spikes up; if that
happens to be a module without a reg, you'll be abusing it. Possibly even
abusing it worse than if you had no regs at all, although the modules with regs
may be happier. Note that the time when this is going to happen is when the
charger is in constant-voltage mode, and this is the more dangerous time for
the batteries since the current has not yet dropped to a low level.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:54:45 -0600
From: John Thornton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] [sfeva] What is happening at Tesla?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
robert harder wrote:
>> Jeff Shanab write:
>>
>>> Wow. The negativity of that comment about knocked me off my chair.
>>>
>>> I take it you haven't read through their pages on the master plan.
>>> 1) Sell the high performance roadster first.
>>> 2) leverage the profit to build a 4 door luxury sedan
>>> 3) leverage the luxury sedan sales to fund a lower cost car for the
>>> rest of us.
>>>
>>>
>
> that is a business plan that has been tried by many automotive startups over
> the years (not only ev) and always fails the successful plans start at the
> cheap end and sell many, many units at small margins then once established
> move into higher value and cost vehicles (think vw, honda, toyota, and now
> hyundai and kia are making it work) I think everyone would love to see this
> work but for such a price selling very few units and the customers expect
> perfection if you are selling a 4 seat ev for $10,000 you'll sell millions of
> them and even if the profit margin is very small the company will survive and
> the customers will be more tolerant of minor issues because the car was a
> bargain (ev or not) plus with large quantities of vehicle actually being
> driven you immediately create a parts and service market for yourself, with
> 600 tesla roadsters most of which will be driven very little because the
> owners don't want to risk there $150,000 investment on the open road you now
> have n!
o continuing revenue stream, I wish them the best but fear the worst
>
I'd bet the plan isn't to make money but to reach the point where a
major manufacturer felt Tesla had a viable enough product that buying
the company would be advantageous.
Most start-ups since 1970 employing more than 200 people that haven't
gone under were purchased by larger firms and there is good evidence
that this was the intention of the majority of these start-up from the
moment of inception. I get the feeling the shake-ups at Tesla are
intended to make the company more attractive to a potential purchaser
rather than for viability reasons.
Someone mentioned Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini and all those companies
have been purchased by major automobile manufacturers at some point in
their lives or they would not be here today. They prove, not the point
the poster intended to prove about the viability of start-up auto
companies, but the necessity of deeper pockets to remain solvent.
John Thornton
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 6, Issue 66
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