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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Increasing pole count for DC motors (Frank Schmitt)
   2. Re: Question about Saft NiMh (Ricky Suiter)
   3. Re: Increasing pole count for DC motors (Morgan LaMoore)
   4. Re: Electric Dragin' Video Footage (EV Manny)
   5. Re: NEDRA SC/A competitinon (was Re: S10 racing at Firebird)
      (Mike Willmon)
   6. Please talk about EVs, not people (EVDL Administrator)
   7. Re: Siamese EV Motors (Mike Willmon)
   8. Re: Siamese EV Motors (Mike Willmon)
   9. Re: Re building a Curtis 1221C (Mark Grasser)
  10. Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups (John Wayland)
  11. Re: Lithium batteries availability (Idgit)
  12. Re: Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  13. Re: Siamese EV Motors (damon henry)
  14. Re: Lithium batteries availability (shred)
  15. Re: Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups (damon henry)
  16. What to use for a 144v indicator light? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  17. Re: Faster shifting a clutchless EV ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  18. Landis Charger "Controller" (storm connors)
  19. Electric cars on TV (JS)
  20. Re: Firefly has posted specs on their website (Jeff Shanab)
  21. Re: Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  22. Re: Lithium batteries availability (Dan Frederiksen)
  23. Re: Lithium batteries availability (Dan Frederiksen)
  24. Re: Hybrid Sparrow moves again! (Lee Hart)
  25. Re: What to use for a 144v indicator light? (Roland Wiench)
  26. Re: EEstor has nothing new or better? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  27. The Sunrise story (JS)
  28. Re: Increasing pole count for DC motors (Lee Hart)
  29. Re: Increasing pole count for DC motors (Lee Hart)
  30. Re: Increasing pole count for DC motors (Lee Hart)
  31. Initial Battery Balancing Act ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  32. Re: Field Resistance (Lee Hart)
  33. Re: Glitter in the coolant? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  34. Re: Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups (John Wayland)
  35. Re: Lithium batteries availability (Morgan LaMoore)
  36. Re: What to use for a 144v indicator light? (Lee Hart)
  37. Re: Initial Battery Balancing Act (Roland Wiench)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:56:26 -0800
From: Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Increasing pole count for DC motors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On Jan 25, 2008, at 10:37 , Lee Hart wrote:
> They usually get higher torque and lower speed by increasing the
> diameter of the rotor. Doubling the diameter doubles the surface area,
> and thus doubles the torque (assuming everything else stays the same)

I'm mostly with Lee here, but at the risk of engaging in Clintonian  
hair-splitting, but It depends a lot on what part of "all else" you  
consider equal.

The physics says that the torque is limited by the volume enclosed by  
the gap between the stator and rotor (what, in essence, Lee said). So  
that would mean that torque rises with the square of the diameter  
(keeping length constant): not only do you get more "magnets" pulling  
in unison, they are also acting on a longer lever-arm.

Adding poles without increasing the rotor/stator diameter will change  
the electrical characteristics (speed/voltage and torque/current  
ratios) but not the ultimate torque capability. But an easier way to  
change the electrical characteristics is by using few/more turns of  
thicker/thinner wire, so typically you only add as many poles as is  
optimal for routing the magnetic flux through the motor.

I haven't taken one apart, but as I understand it most series-wound  
DC motors have two poles. Adding more complicates the armature  
windings and commutator, and doesn't really buy you anything unless  
your diameter is huge. OTOH, I have an e-bike hub motor in front of  
me with a stator the size and shape of a Krispy Kreme, that has 18  
poles (but three phases, so it's more like six).

-Frank







------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:42:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Question about Saft NiMh
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Chrysler used these in their Epic minivan, I'm not
sure how many they built, but it wasn't many. Don't
know if these would be considered prototype or
production. There was a running Epic on eBay a while
back from Blue Sky Motors, they claimed two were known
running. I have an information sheet around here
somewhere for these weird long 24 volt water cooled
modules. I talked to some people at the local power
companies and they said they did some testing on these
vans here in Phoenix for a while so apparently the
water cooling setup worked well enough.

My understanding is that NiMH makes a lot of heat,
especially while charging so I'd give them as much
cooling as you can. 

I have a spec sheet on these somewhere around here.
I'll see if I can find it. I should probably scan and
put that Saft packet online for everyone to have.


Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC Conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"

----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:55:31 -0500
> From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Question about Saft NiMh
> batteries
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> On 24 Jan 2008 at 6:45, shred wrote:
> 
> > Will these batteries overheat?
> > I'm pulling 150 amps at cruise 275 on hills and up
> to 600 for a few seconds
> > during hard acceleration.
> 
> Saft NiCd EV batteries should be limited to 2C
> continuous and 5C for very 
> short, periodic bursts.  I don't know whether that
> applies to their NiMH, 
> though.  In fact I didn't think the NiMH had ever
> been put into production - 
> you might have prototypes there.
> 
> Look at the specs for the original vehicle.  That
> should hint at what 
> they're capable of.  If it was a high voltage / low
> current vehicle, you may 
> have a problem.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 



      
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 01:11:25 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Increasing pole count for DC motors
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Jan 25, 2008 11:56 PM, Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Adding poles without increasing the rotor/stator diameter will change
> the electrical characteristics (speed/voltage and torque/current
> ratios) but not the ultimate torque capability...

OK, that makes sense. I was thinking of using the same max voltage and
current, as if you had the same inverter either way. That's really
just another way of saying you're altering the electrical
characteristics, though. The maximum possible torque of the *motor*
alone is independent of pole count, and so is the max RPM's; it just
takes different amounts of voltage and current to get there.

> I haven't taken one apart, but as I understand it most series-wound
> DC motors have two poles. Adding more complicates the armature
> windings and commutator, and doesn't really buy you anything unless
> your diameter is huge...

Take a look at this picture of a Warp 9 field:

http://hitorqueelectric.com/gallery/v/custom_motors/warp9_101/FIELD+COILS.jpg.html

and this picture of an Advanced DC 6.7":

http://www.killacycle.com/photos/motor-details/DSCN1151.jpg

So there's 4 coils, one on each 'side'. I was under the impression
that these coils alternate in polarity, creating a total of four poles
in the motor field.

Someone in the know, please correct me if I'm wrong; this is just how
I interpreted the four separate coils. It's quite possible that
there's two coils of one polarity then two of the other polarity,
creating a two pole motor, but it seems to me like a strange way of
doing it compared to just using a single coil for each pole.

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:49:33 -0800
From: "EV Manny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Dragin' Video Footage
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The Electric Dragin' crew showed up at a local news station to promote
the EVent.
The video features a close race between KD's 2.S.S.I.C. (the worlds
fastest extreme street electric car) and Joseph's Zap Xebra. There's
also a slideshow of the 1st arrivals to the Barona Drag Strip.

Enjoy.

http://www.ElectricDragin.com/BBBvsED.html
or
http://www.kyte.tv/home/index.html#uri=channels/31581/94710


-- 
Manny

http://evalbum.com/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:18:19 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NEDRA SC/A competitinon (was Re: S10 racing at
        Firebird)
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hey sorry I missed this one today before your races.  I would say good luck
but I suppose now all the fun is had.  Let us know how it went when you can
get to a keyboard :-)

Mike

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 3:24 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] NEDRA SC/A competitinon (was Re: S10 racing at
> Firebird)
> 
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Bummer is that I found 2 lifted com risers on the
> > formerly fried front
> > GE motor. We are going to have to pull the motor
> > today and repair for
> > the race tonight.
> 
> Hey Shawn
> Good man 8^)  I hope the repair goeas as planned.
> Best of luck.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _____________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:47:38 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Please talk about EVs, not people
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 25 Jan 2008 at 21:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> why would anyone actually own an EV ...

Easy, folks.  Let's talk about EVs, not people, please.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:47:54 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Siamese EV Motors
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> -----Original Message-----
> Dave Cover wrote:
> .... 
>Everyone can build a semi-siamese
> right now without swamping Jims shop.


Well sort of, you'll still need to have Jim sink the 1/2"-20 holes in the
sides of the motor housing.   Or you could do the hack job like I did on my
trucks WarP9  and just weld tabs right to the housing.  I think Jim about
choked on his coffee when he saw I welded those tabs directly to the
housing, but they haven't broken yet.   I used to worry about those welds
the most.  Now I'm back to worrying about the stock transmission in the
truck as the weak link.  Nothing like breaking tires lose in 2nd gear
without so much as a clutch slip :-O  But the motor mount tabs are holding.

Still, if you are thinking of running a motor through Jim's shop I'd pay the
extra to have the side mounting holes sunk in.  It really opens up the
mounting options to things you can make with straight pieces of channel and
angle.

Mike





------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 01:19:30 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Siamese EV Motors
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hey Dave, I did think about that whole running one motor if I had to thing.
(See Dan I did think about it a little ;-)  It will work if you fry the
front motor as the rear motor still has the splined drive shaft and 1350
slip yoke to drive the rear end.  If I wanted to use the front motor while
the rear one was out I would have to build me a Taper-Lok adaptor to a yoke
connector to couple directly to the drive shaft.  Ultimately I would want to
have one of those thingies on had *before* any problems.

I talked to some CE's who didn't tell me much, but did lend me their
'Statics And Strengths of Materials' text books to evaluate the stiffness of
those rails.   I like a silly EE threw away all my minor courses of study
text books, although I use the info as much as I use my electrical
background.  Anyway 2" channel with 3/16 walls is pretty stout.  And I now
have 6 points of attachment to the motors. (two are in the original motor
mount position, two are directly up from the front end cross member and the
other two are the stock tranny cross member where they contact the TH400
shorty tail shaft housing.  I am more confident now that I have picked up
the tail shaft housing mounts that those babies aren't going anywhere but
down the track  ;-)

No offense to any of Jims work, but those rails will spank those motors
hiney sides all the way home; although they aren't as pretty.  I'm sure they
are going to hold up just fine, and they will surely have to.

We will see though :-)

> Dave cover wrote:
> 
> 
> I would also expect your configuration is more practical for swapping
> motors and maintenance. If you have an issue with bearings, a comm,
> etc. you don't have to pull both motors out. And you can run on just
> one while the other is in the shop. Everyone can build a semi-siamese
> right now without swamping Jims shop.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how those rails handle what you are
> going to throw at them on the track. It's a nice and simple way to
> mount you motors.
> 
> Dave Cover, doing my part to fill the East Coast vacuum.




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:24:10 -0500
From: "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Re building a Curtis 1221C
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

As you might be able to tell I run in digest mode. 
I want to thank everyone for their input. I have a tremendous amount of
information now. It should be a piece of cake to repair with all of this.
The bonus is I use Orcad.

SPECIAL thanks to Mr. Hart and his "If it were me" comments. Very good idea
and it is how I will proceed.

Mark Grasser
 

If it were me, I'd start by removing all the MOSFETs, diodes, and
capacitors. Install *one* new MOSFET, diode, and capacitor. Then test the
controller with some suitably light load (like a 120v light bulb, electric
drill, or vacuum cleaner with a series motor). If the controller works, then
the control board is good and you have a good chance of being able to
resurrect it.
If it doesn't work, then concentrate on fixing the control board before
spending all that time and money on the power board and its parts.
If you can't get it working in this low-power mode, give up. Free was the
right price. :-(
--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net

 



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:21:30 -0800
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups
To: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello to All,

In a personal email to me, Mike Willmon wrote:

>As you can see here is one satisfied customer with one obviously HOT unit
>;-)  running in the low 8's (Although I would say she is more in the mid
>9's just looking at her)
>http://www.calvertracing.com/gallery/Full%20Pics/page14pic10.htm
>  
>
>Notice the rear end stays firmly planted on the ground...
>

I'm sure her Cal-Tracs keep things planted as you said, but her rear end 
is pretty much hiked up from what I could see :-)


>I'm going with the Cal-Tracs traction bars which are raved about by
>guys running even in the 9's.  I'm just wondering that for your application
>and light car if adding a full 4-link and necessary framing would be worth
>the weight or if it would be better to get a $300 set of Cal-Tracs that add
>all of 8 lbs to the car? 



Tim and I discussed Cal-Tracs several times. They work great and were 
definitely an option I was considering. However, when we had the Datsun experts 
at the Epperly racing shop do up the beefy 6 point roll bar, they had suggested 
that while they were welding stuff in, it would be easy for them to make the 
roll bar mounts thicker and shaped just so, that at a later date we could 
return and they would design, build, and install a full four link system in my 
Datsun 1200, just as they have already done on several other 1200s over the 
years. Here's a bit on Steve Epperly...notice his rad Datsun B210 racer has the 
classic American Racing 4 spokes (favored by Datsun fans):


http://www.ztherapy.com/bios/index.htm
http://www.ztherapy.com/bios/images/b210b.jpg


I gave them the go-ahead to do this, so the heavy duty platforms to serve as 
spring perches and mount points for a 4 link are already in place. Yes, 
Cal-tracs only add 8 lbs., but according to the Epperlys, when finished with 
the 4 link, minus the car's current heavy leaf springs, the new 4 link with its 
coil springs would probably shave off 20 lbs. in weight...cool!

See Ya...John Wayland




------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:54:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Idgit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries availability
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Kokams will soon be down to $1.25-1.30/WH, at least the ones made in the USA.
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Lithium-batteries-availability-tp14940235p15109213.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:57:06 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I watched the "White Zombie" Video, and was very impressed with the ET. But the 
car seemed to spend an eternity spinning the tires and blowing smoke before it 
actually launched....

Anyway to program the controller to reduce some of this wheel spin...maybe a 
torque limiter of some sort..

Just a thought...for what it's worth...
_____________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:01:54 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Siamese EV Motors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


One thing to remember if you do this.  You need to know what your adaptor plate 
is ahead of time, unless you are fabricating it yourself.  The one I ordered 
has 4 bolts which means I have 4 options (all at 90 deg. from each other) as to 
how I can mount my motor.  You will have to make sure that any holes in the 
motor case are lined up properly to work with your adaptor plate.  Of course 
this is only the case if you are keeping the transmission.

damon
>
> Still, if you are thinking of running a motor through Jim's shop I'd pay the
> extra to have the side mounting holes sunk in. It really opens up the
> mounting options to things you can make with straight pieces of channel and
> angle.
>
> Mike

_________________________________________________________________
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"fix".
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------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:04:02 -0800 (PST)
From: shred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries availability
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


How is this for a price.
"Our best price of 48V/100Ah polymer pack is USD2730.00/pc, based on 6 pcs,
FOB Shenzhen, T/T or L/C payment, the delivery date is within 35 days." 
"our quotation includes BMS, not the compatible charger. 
Our best price of 48V battery charger is USD105.00/pc 
from here---  
http://gbp.en.alibaba.com:80/product/50015626/50084906/Li_ion_EV_Battery_Packs.html

Is that not $.58 a watt?
Neal



SteveS-5 wrote:
> 
> I've been on this list only a few weeks, but I've seen  a lot of 
> discussion on Lithium batteries. It seems there are everywhere but 
> nowhere. So, who actually sells these things in reasonable quantities? I 
> know some of the high-performance guys have them, but who is selling to 
> the general public? Who has actually purchased a set and used them? I 
> really would like to get some positive answers because I'd like to use
> them.
> 
> - SteveS
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Lithium-batteries-availability-tp14940235p15109272.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:05:41 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Perhaps you were watching a Smoke Show video.  I have watched WZ at the track 
many many times and the only cars quicker off the line all have parachutes on 
the back.  John and Tim are very good at getting it to hook up, and are 
constantly tweaking the controller power parameters to maximize power without 
introducing wheel spin.

damon

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:57:06 +0000
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups
>
> I watched the "White Zombie" Video, and was very impressed with the ET. But 
> the car seemed to spend an eternity spinning the tires and blowing smoke 
> before it actually launched....
>
> Anyway to program the controller to reduce some of this wheel spin...maybe a 
> torque limiter of some sort..
>
> Just a thought...for what it's worth...
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click to compare life insurance rates. Great rates, quick and easy.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tyKHstq4OoFoj4k6fhaafV8WtHYIiiLxaX21Azs71Tyr8B5/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:08:01 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] What to use for a 144v indicator light?
To: EV List Submissions <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII

I am trying to be as safe as possible with my car heater heater.    I
would like to have a bulb running off the same wires as the ceramic
space heater element to tell me when  it is on - thus helping me prevent
a welded relay from melting the car down to a pile of lead.  
I have a small panel next to the heater switch that will work well for
putting in a little indicator bulb.   I have tried a 120v bulb in a
small socket meant for candelabras - maybe not the most robust bulb, I
don't know...   It blew out after ~ 10 minutes of being lit.   My car is
144v, and of course fully charged, puts out ~156 volts, with the voltage
varying as speed changes.    Any ideas?

Thanks all!
I just sold my gasser today, so my wife and I are planning to live only
with the electric car, and mass transit/rental cars for out of town
travel.   Wish me luck!

Andy
 



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:16:56 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Faster shifting a clutchless EV
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

 
 
Nice to see the vigorous debate on clutch versus no clutch.  Of course  the 
topic was "Faster shifting a clutchless EV" so all those who recommended  
putting in a clutch missed the point.
 
Anyway, I really like the simplicity of my clutchless EV and it would have  
been a lot more difficult for me to keep the clutch.
 
I can shift fine without the clutch it just takes a couple of seconds for  
the input shaft to slow down.  The question was how to shift faster  without a 
clutch and all those who answered the actual question get extra  credit. LOL  I 
think the use of a generator or alternator to could slow it  down but I agree 
that the amount of time it would be generating any power  would be minimal so 
as not to warrant it. I kind of like the idea of the bicycle  disc brake....
 
 


Thank  you,

Dave Delman
1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
electricdelorean.com



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:37:46 -0500
From: "storm connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Landis Charger "Controller"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

This might be useful for those who are using dumb chargers. The
"controller" replaces the timer. It eliminates the need to guess how
long a charge will require. Harry designed it for the Electrac Tractor
and has sold it to many tractor owners. I searched the Electrac site
and could find no negative comments, even though 2 posts specifically
asked for them. You still have to manually control the
voltage/amperage. The controller turns on the charger if the battery
charge falls below the setpoint- about 2.11v/cell. For my 144v pack I
am using 156.8v.

His ad on the Electrac site is only viewable if you sign up for the
list. With his permission I reproduced it on my blog at
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/ . Harry built me a controller for
my 144v pack for $50. So far, I'm impressed. I put "controller" in
quotes because it only turns the charger on and off. It has no other
protection capabilities (which concerned our moderator.)

-- 
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1059
http://stormselectric.blogspot.com/
Storm



------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:43:24 -0800
From: JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric cars on TV
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],  Electric Vehicle
        Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Forecast Earth on the Weather Channel promises an hour
of electric/alternative fuel cars today at 5 PM Eastern,
baring any last minute extreme weather coverage.

They have been showing preview promos almost every hour.

John in Sylmar, CA
Driving on sunshine, gas-free!



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:47:15 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Firefly has posted specs on their website
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Actually I was asking in earnest. If I wasn't I would have put a :-)
after it.
I have been trying to give Dan the benefit of the doubt, but it is
difficult.

Normally I just don't respond, but maybe a little guidance can help him
out.

Here are some example quotes from just the last digest:

    <Nevermind>



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:02:42 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I would think they would be..they seem to have been at this a good while, maybe 
the section of the video was a burnout just to warm the tires...and the 
"launch" was uneventful....but I gathered he was launching from the video 
clip...
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for financial aid options.  Quick and Easy.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4vDe4NPsayU7gDpQNFa4NsWB52gGVe6oir7X4IMD7n8EV8yr/





------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:11:16 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries availability
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Idgit wrote:
> Kokams will soon be down to $1.25-1.30/WH, at least the ones made in the USA.
>   


still much too expensive



------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:28:39 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries availability
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

shred wrote:
> "Our best price of 48V/100Ah polymer pack is USD2730.00/pc, based on 6 pcs,
> FOB Shenzhen, T/T or L/C payment, the delivery date is within 35 days." 
> Is that not $.58 a watt?
>
>   

yep, that's not bad. just remember to get the pack so it has enough 
current capability for your use and also be aware that it's not the 
LiFePO4 type of lithium which means it's life span might be around half. 
you can ask for a spec sheet with cycle life

Dan



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:26:06 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hybrid Sparrow moves again!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Well, I finally have 13 good Optima Bluetops. It only took 18
> batteries (all brand new) to find 13 good ones. I REALLY hope
> I can find something else next time I need a pack. I won't
> recommend Optima's at all anymore.

What a sad commentary on their quality control. Optimas used to be the 
*best* you could get!

> Today I was able to take my Sparrow to work... modified by 
> hanging a small generator off the back...  For my 32 mile (each
> way) commute, I used < 1 gallon of gas.

Are you charging at work? I'm trying to figure out if the Sparrow's 
range as a pure EV is just short of 32 miles, or just short of 64 miles.

> So, if I can find a battery pack that meets these specs:
> 1) Can handle a 3KW load for 1.25 hours
> 2) At least 75V (to stay under my 40A limit on the PFC charger)
> 3) < 100 lbs
> 4) Costs less than the car did.
> I'd happily replace the genset.

That's about 3 times what lead-acids can do, and about the limit for 
lithium batteries right now. Too bad the Thunderskys didn't meet specs; 
if they had, they could have done it.

With what you know now, do you think a full pack of the BB600 nicads 
would have done it?

I wonder if there are any alternative fuels the generator could be 
converted to run on? Alcohol? Natural gas? Hydrogen? :-)
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:28:00 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What to use for a 144v indicator light?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Andy,

Try a neon 220 AC/DC indicator as a direct take off of the heater element. 
It is most importance to fuse both leads to this lamp as close to the heater 
as possible.  You do not what the full potential of the heater ampere to 
this lamp and to your dash.

For maximum safety so you do not burn your dash up, it is best to use a 
industrial pilot light modules holder that you plug in your lamp and a 
removable lens.  This holders are 600 volt rated.

I have seen some of these indicators that has two leads coming off the lamp 
and install in a 1/2 hole in a panel, that melted and then burns up.

Do not replace the lamp with the power on.  I had one guy come back to the 
shop with his hand and face all black.

I fuse all my indicators and meters that come off the battery pack for a 
voltage display and off the sense screws of a shunt to a amp meter.

I use a 600 volt fuse holder and use a 1 amp 250 volt fuse on both the 
negative and positive battery indicator leads.

It is better to use a extra pole on a heater contactor or any contactor. 
Some contactors can have a micro switch or a add a pole which is activated 
when the contactor is on or off.

You then can use a 12 VDC LED indicators which is normally fuse only on the 
positive side that comes off the ignition switch power on your vehicle fuse 
panel.

Roland








----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List Submissions" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 9:08 AM
Subject: [EVDL] What to use for a 144v indicator light?


> I am trying to be as safe as possible with my car heater heater.    I
> would like to have a bulb running off the same wires as the ceramic
> space heater element to tell me when  it is on - thus helping me prevent
> a welded relay from melting the car down to a pile of lead.
> I have a small panel next to the heater switch that will work well for
> putting in a little indicator bulb.   I have tried a 120v bulb in a
> small socket meant for candelabras - maybe not the most robust bulb, I
> don't know...   It blew out after ~ 10 minutes of being lit.   My car is
> 144v, and of course fully charged, puts out ~156 volts, with the voltage
> varying as speed changes.    Any ideas?
>
> Thanks all!
> I just sold my gasser today, so my wife and I are planning to live only
> with the electric car, and mass transit/rental cars for out of town
> travel.   Wish me luck!
>
> Andy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:40:51 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EEstor has nothing new or better?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Remy isn't making this up, he's
quoting press releases:
http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/20090/?a=f
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/press_releases/2008/010908_LockheedMartinSignsAgreement.html
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/01/lockheed-martin.html
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/10/whats-this-eestor-convinces-lockheed-martin-its-on-to-somethi/
http://tyler.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2008/1/9/3456534.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Lockheed_Martin_Signs_Agreement_With_EESTOR_For_Energy_Storage_Solutions_999.html

The general consensus is that Lockheed wouldn't be getting on board if this
was make believe. Zenn already has the exclusive rights to EEstor's technology 
for vehicle applications locked up,
although they may license it to others.

Peter Oppewall
Editor http://EVtransPortal.com




------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:54:18 -0800
From: JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] The Sunrise story
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

From

http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/history.html

"My next favorite is this book: if you want some more in-depth reading 
about what it was like to buck the gas-powered "system" and develop an 
electric car just for the love of it, check out Charging Ahead: An 
Electric Car That Goes the Distance, written by Joe Sherman (Oxford 
University Press, 1998). It's the story of James Worden and the birth of 
his company, Solectria."



------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:02:13 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Increasing pole count for DC motors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I hate to disagree with Lee (cause I usually regret it when I find
> out I was wrong)...

Actually, I *like* finding out when I'm wrong. Mistakes are a great way 
to learn. Sometimes the lessons you learn the best are due to mistakes :-o

> I thought the power a motor produces is proportional to the surface
> area of its rotor (times the radius of the rotor).

I think it's the *torque* that's proportional to the surface area (times 
the radius). Power is torque times RPM. The maximum RPM is ultimately 
limited by the strength of the rotor, though other factors such as 
bearings, the supply voltage, or losses in the iron core may limit it first.

> not sure about the times the radius part, isn't it already in the
> surface area calculation?

The surface area is giving you the force being exerted (pounds). The 
radius is the distance over which this force acts (foot). Torque is 
force x distance (foot x pounds).

> Certainly the torque is related to the pole count in an AC motor and the
> rpm is inversely related.

Not quite. There are examples of pole-switching motors that have 
windings to allow it to be run as a 2-pole, 4-pole, 6-pole motor etc. 
What you find is that the torque is the same regardless of speed. 
Changing poles just changes its speed.

But when you compare a purpose-built 2-pole to a 4-pole motor, you'll 
find they increased the surface area and/or diameter of the rotor to get 
more torque. The ultimate motor may weigh the same, and be roughly the 
same outside dimensions, however. The speed halved, but that's because 
they typically run it from a fixed-frequency source.

Frank Schmitt wrote:
 > The physics says that the torque is limited by the volume enclosed
 > by the gap between the stator and rotor (what, in essence, Lee said).
 > So that would mean that torque rises with the square of the diameter
 > (keeping length constant): not only do you get more "magnets" pulling
 > in unison, they are also acting on a longer lever-arm.

Almost; but C = pi x D, so doubling the diameter of the rotor only 
doubles the surface area; not the square of the diameter. Is that right?

-- 
"I do not learn from my mistakes. I learn from *other* people's
mistakes."  --   Kaiser Wilhelm
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 29
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:13:14 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Increasing pole count for DC motors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> OK, that makes sense. I was thinking of using the same max voltage
> and current, as if you had the same inverter either way. That's
> really just another way of saying you're altering the electrical
> characteristics, though.

Possibly. You could keep the same inverter, with its same maximum 
voltage, current, and frequency limits; and build different motors with 
different torque-speed characteristics. You could have a 2-pole motor 
that ran at high rpm and low torque; a 4-pole that ran half as fast but 
produced twice the torque, etc.

What I think you would find is that each of these motors weighs about 
the same, and has about the same efficiency. The peak (and it would be 
shallow) would occur for the design that has a rotor whose length and 
diameter are about the same.

This is the problem with wheel motors; to get the very high torque and 
low rpm leads you to a design with a high pole count and a large 
diameter but thin rotor, and this impacts efficiency and weight.

> The maximum possible torque of the *motor* alone is independent of
> pole count, and so is the max RPM's; it just takes different amounts
> of voltage and current to get there.

Agreed. Or, if you change the windings to get the voltage and current 
into tolerable levels, then the frequency can become the problem. For 
example, if the EV1 had used a 2-pole design for its 13,000 RPM motor, 
their inverter would have had to run at 216 Hz. This is too high for 
conventional laminations.

>> I haven't taken one apart, but as I understand it most series-wound
>> DC motors have two poles.

4 poles is the most common. 2 poles are more common for high-RPM series 
DC motors, like you find in a vacuum cleaner or skil saw.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 30
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:18:05 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Increasing pole count for DC motors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Morgan LaMoore wrote:
> Not for AC motors. With AC (PM or induction), torque is directly
> proportional to number of poles, and speed is inversely proportional
> to number of poles (assuming the total length and thickness of wire
> remains constant).

Only when you assume fixed frequency, and when the motor is designed 
accordingly.

> I don't think any of this applies to DC, though, only AC.

All DC motors are really AC motors; they just have an internal inverter 
(the commutator and brushes).
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 31
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:36:37 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Initial Battery Balancing Act
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

It is now obvious to me that my batteries are way out of balance.  I  bought 
a $100 smart battery charger (Shumacher SC6500A) and tried to use it to  
charge each battery individually in an effort to get them balanced.  After  
charging them each individually until the charger said they were 100% charged, 
I  
checked them the next morning and the built in battery tester (no load)  showed 
the range of charge to be from 12.5V ("75% charged") to 12.9V (100%)  charged 
when set on the AGM setting.  While under charging this  charger says they are 
100% when the voltage reaches 13.5V.  This seems too  low.  So now I am using 
my Variac charger and charging the battery  string at 5 amps and I am 
monitoring each battery.  When a battery  gets to be over 14.6 volts I take it 
out of 
the circuit and continue charging  the others.
 
Is this a reasonable method.  Will I ever be able to get the pack  balanced 
enough to keep them all in one string while charging them?  Any  suggestions 
would be appreciated.
 
Thank  you,

Dave Delman
1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
electricdelorean.com



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


------------------------------

Message: 32
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:47:09 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Field Resistance
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Guess Resistance is checked with the OHM meter. Is that correct? How  
> would one hook up the meter to the field windings to check for  
> resistance?

Normal meters are only good down to 1 ohm or so. Readings below that are 
suspect, because the leads themselves often have that much resistance.

Very low resistances are best measured with a milli-ohmmeter or 
micro-ohmmeter. I have two; one analog and one digital.

The analog one is a Simpson 1699 Milliohmmeter, which has full-scale 
ranges from 50 to 0.05 ohms and can resolve down to 0.001 ohm. It is 
much like every other multimeter, except that its alligator clipleads 
have an insulated pin to electrically isolate each jaw, and a separate 
wire to each. It uses a D cell to apply a known current through the 
unknown resistance, using two halves of the clip leads. The meter then 
reads the voltage drop across the unknown resistor using the other two 
halves of the clip leads. The scales are calibrated in resistance based 
on Ohm's law; R = V / I.

You can do this yourself. Rig up a constant current source, like a D 
cell with a flashlight bulb in series. Measure the current it draws. 
Connect this current source to your motor's field terminals (or other 
unknown low-ohm resistance). Use your regular multimeter to measure the 
voltage drop across the terminals (using SEPARATE clip leads; not the 
ones supplying the test current). Calculate resistance with Ohm's law as 
above.

My other milliohmmeter is digital; a Dick Smith Electronics K-7214 
Capacitor ESR meter. Capacitor ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) is 
also a very low resistance. This meter covers resistances from 0.01 to 
99 ohms, with an 0.01 ohm resolution. It only has two wires and is not 
as accurate, but is easier to use.

Its measures the unknown resistance by applying an *AC* constant current 
of about 200 mA. Because it's AC, it can test capacitors and batteries 
as well as resistors. but it can't test anything inductive like a motor, 
coil, or transformer. You short the clip leads, press a "zero" button to 
zero the display, then connect the clip leads to the unknown resistor, 
capacitor, or battery. It measure the voltage drop at the 200ma test 
current, subtracts the zero error, and displays the result.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 33
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:49:52 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Glitter in the coolant?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

 
Thanks for all the suggestions.  I put about 1/2 teaspoon of a very  fine 
glitter into the coolant.   It works very well... so  far.

 
Thank  you,

Dave Delman
1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
electricdelorean.com



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


------------------------------

Message: 34
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:02:41 -0800
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello to All,

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I watched the "White Zombie" Video, and was very impressed with the ET. But 
>the car seemed to spend an eternity spinning the tires and blowing smoke 
>before it actually launched....
>  
>

There are many White Zombie videos out there, perhaps as many as 
50...which video are you referring to?


See Ya...John Wayland



------------------------------

Message: 35
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:16:26 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries availability
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Wow, that's a great price! We've seen ones a few cents less per
watt-hour, but that's without a BMS or packaging!

I would recommend asking them whether the BMS can handle multiple
modules in series; they might be using relatively low-voltage parts
that couldn't handle a series connection.

Also, check out the continuous and peak current draw.

If they check out (and you can afford it), I'd say go for it! Those
prices are great!

-Morgan LaMoore

On Jan 26, 2008 10:04 AM, shred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> How is this for a price.
> "Our best price of 48V/100Ah polymer pack is USD2730.00/pc, based on 6 pcs,
> FOB Shenzhen, T/T or L/C payment, the delivery date is within 35 days."
> "our quotation includes BMS, not the compatible charger.
> Our best price of 48V battery charger is USD105.00/pc
> from here---
> http://gbp.en.alibaba.com:80/product/50015626/50084906/Li_ion_EV_Battery_Packs.html
>
> Is that not $.58 a watt?
> Neal
>
>
>
>
> SteveS-5 wrote:
> >
> > I've been on this list only a few weeks, but I've seen  a lot of
> > discussion on Lithium batteries. It seems there are everywhere but
> > nowhere. So, who actually sells these things in reasonable quantities? I
> > know some of the high-performance guys have them, but who is selling to
> > the general public? Who has actually purchased a set and used them? I
> > really would like to get some positive answers because I'd like to use
> > them.
> >
> > - SteveS
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Lithium-batteries-availability-tp14940235p15109272.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 36
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:27:43 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What to use for a 144v indicator light?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I would like to have a bulb running off the same wires as the ceramic
> space heater element to tell me when it is on... a 120v bulb... blew
> out after ~10 minutes... My car is 144v, and of course fully charged,
> puts out ~156 volts, with the voltage varying as speed changes. Any
> ideas?

Normal light bulb life goes down very fast as voltage goes up. That's 
probably why it didn't last long. You can get bulbs for almost any 
voltage; try getting a 240v bulb instead. Or add a series resistor to 
drop the lamp's voltage to its rated amount. Or use two bulbs in series.

You can use a neon lamp instead. The basic bulb is 60v, and they have a 
series resistor that takes up whatever is left. So they are not affected 
much by voltage, and have a *very* long life (10,000+ hours). A 120v one 
would work fine on 156v with only a small reduction in life. Or, you can 
use a 240v rated one, which will still work at 120v.

You can use an LED with a series resistor. They aren't as bright as 
neons for a given current, so you need a lower-value resistor which 
needs to be physically larger to deal with the heat.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 37
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 12:33:19 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Initial Battery Balancing Act
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Dave,

Charge by the voltage indication, not by the battery percentage indication. 
If a battery is over charge or over 12.64 volts it will read only 100 
percent.

The Shumacher should have a charging voltage on the AGM setting to a maximum 
of 14.6 volts and then after it is finishing charging it will come back to 
13.5 volts and hold it there for maintaining the batteries.

The 12.64 volt is 2.106 volts per cell which is 100 percent.  I do not known 
where the 12.9 volts came from for 100 %.

12.62 is 90 percent
12.50 is 80 percent
12.38 is 70 percent

If you are trying to charge these batteries that are about 100 percent 
charge, then this charger will go right into a maintaining charge of 13.5 
volts.

When I balance my pack with this charger, I make sure my highest batteries 
voltage is at least discharge to 80 to 85 percent.  When I charge the 
battery, the charging range should go to 14.8 volts and may fall to 13.5 
volts and may repeat this pattern and than finally come back to 13.5 volts.

The Shumacher will not charge over 100 percent. To balance the batteries, 
reduce all the batteries below 100 percent.

Roland






----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 11:36 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Initial Battery Balancing Act


> It is now obvious to me that my batteries are way out of balance.  I 
> bought
> a $100 smart battery charger (Shumacher SC6500A) and tried to use it to
> charge each battery individually in an effort to get them balanced.  After
> charging them each individually until the charger said they were 100% 
> charged, I
> checked them the next morning and the built in battery tester (no load) 
> showed
> the range of charge to be from 12.5V ("75% charged") to 12.9V (100%) 
> charged
> when set on the AGM setting.  While under charging this  charger says they 
> are
> 100% when the voltage reaches 13.5V.  This seems too  low.  So now I am 
> using
> my Variac charger and charging the battery  string at 5 amps and I am
> monitoring each battery.  When a battery  gets to be over 14.6 volts I 
> take it out of
> the circuit and continue charging  the others.
>
> Is this a reasonable method.  Will I ever be able to get the pack 
> balanced
> enough to keep them all in one string while charging them?  Any 
> suggestions
> would be appreciated.
>
> Thank  you,
>
> Dave Delman
> 1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
> electricdelorean.com
>
>
>
> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> 48)
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



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