Send EV mailing list submissions to
        ev@lists.sjsu.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: High voltage systems (was: my first post to this EVDL)
      (henry buehler)
   2. Re: 'Running on Lithium' Video to Watch (John Wayland)
   3. Re: another VERY nice looking electric three wheeler
      ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   4. FW: Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups (Mike Willmon)
   5. Siemens Electric Brakes (Roland Wiench)
   6. Re: Electric cars on TV (Steven **)
   7. Re: What to use for a 144v indicator light? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   8. Re: Glitter in the coolant? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   9. Interesting article...we already know! The future is
      electric. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  10. Re: Glitter in the coolant? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  11. Re: K2 factory may be identified and lower prices
      (Dan Frederiksen)
  12. Re: Electric Dragin' Video Footage (Dan Frederiksen)
  13. Re: Electric cars on TV (Dan Frederiksen)
  14. Valence batteries ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  15. Re: Valence batteries (Ryan Stotts)
  16. Re: Life without my EV sucks (Jeff Shanab)
  17. Re: SMART as conversion platform (martin winlow)
  18. Re: SMART as conversion platform (M. Barkley)
  19. Re: Valence batteries (shred)
  20. Re: another VERY nice looking electric three wheeler
      ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  21. Poor man's line lock brakes... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  22. Re: Valence batteries (Dan Frederiksen)
  23. Re: another VERY nice looking electric three wheeler
      (Morgan LaMoore)
  24. Re: High voltage systems (Lee Hart)
  25. Re: High voltage systems (was: my first post to this EVDL)
      (Ryan Stotts)
  26. Re: charge in parallel, discharge in series (David Hrivnak)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:49:32 -0600
From: "henry buehler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] High voltage systems (was: my first post to this
        EVDL)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Trying to come up with a concept without any idea what I am talking about.
a one cell battery conected to a coil for a timed pulse of electrical power
for an ac motor
three phase ac is it a full sine wave or a half ? a sine wave to start and a
pulse square wave when running ?  six cases of batteries connected to
coils , two for each phase. each battery can be off or connected to coil or
all can be charging.


On 1/25/08, Metric Mind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > On 24 Jan 2008 at 11:40, Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> >
> >> as electronics designed for EV use become more available you will see
> >> pack voltage rise a lot. towards 1000v
> >
> > I'd be very surprised to see this kind of voltage in EVs.  I'm no
> engineer,
> > but from what I've seen, at that voltage level semiconductors and other
> > components start getting expensive, and insulation becomes
> critical.  There
> > are also perceived, if not real, safety concerns.
> >
> > I think voltages in the 300-400 range are likely, indeed already exist,
> but
> > not much above that.  I could be wrong, though.
>
> You probably are ;-)
>
> FWIW, I'm adding high voltage AC inverters to the line of units I have.
> For high power and low current (<300 battery amps) application standard
> EV bus voltage (650VDC) is used, it's pretty common. 200kW inverters
> I'll be getting next month (EVI-200) will take up to 900VDC in max.
> Motors are designed for that voltage. 350V is medium voltage for AC
> systems. 65...140V inverters formerly made by Siemens are no longer
> in production.
>
> BRUSA has line of 960VDC input AC systems for long time; same applies
> for their line of DC-DC converters.
>
> MES' standard Z5 Zebra battery is configurable in series/parallel
> config with 570VDC output in series. This is standard option
> made specifically because HV systems are gaining acceptance
> for obvious advantages that still outweighing [real or perceived]
> shortcomings.
>
> At least 5 people working on high voltage AC drive based
> conversions (myself included) and we will see how it plays out.
>
> Now, this has little to do with DC systems, where it is simpler to
> use low(er) voltage and high current motors to gain power.
> So if David thought mostly about those, he is right - it is unlikely
> they will ever get above 350VDC. Simply no need.
>
> Of course, DC machine gains power by increasing torque on the shaft,
> while AC ones - by raising RPM at which decent torque is still
> maintained (and this is possible because higher battery voltage
> to fight motor's BEMF is available), but we're not about to debate
> AC vs DC again. My only point was that >500VDC voltage in a vehicle
> is not that unusual as might be perceived, and insulation requirements
> for 350V systems vs. 500V ones are not that much different.
> Close to 900V you use thicker insulation and more spacing to avoid
> arc over, but basic wiring is still the same. And, far easier to
> bend/route battery cabling :-)
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:14:12 -0800
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 'Running on Lithium' Video to Watch
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello to All,

Dan Frederiksen wrote:

>good stuff. should bust some prejudice
>
>what quarter miles do Kadie run?
>
>  
>

You could visit the NEDRA site 'Records' page for the answer, but I'll 
just tell you...13.1 @ 94 mph. This ET is the 1st entry ever  in NEDRA's 
Extreme Class XS/A, thus Kadie can and does claim to be the world's 
quickest extreme class EV. Michael and I had hoped for better times for 
his car on the second night of the races last summer, but bad luck with 
car problems followed by on and off rain-out threats kept him away and 
unable to return to run what we all knew would be at least 12 second ETs.

Going by his recent 1/8th mile ETs since the above 1/4 mile record was 
established, if Michael can get his machine back to a full 1/4 mile 
track it should be able to post mid 12s, perhaps even quicker with more 
tuning.

See Ya....John Wayland




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:15:52 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] another VERY nice looking electric three wheeler
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Wow, Nice looking vehicle. I'd like to buy one. I would if they were  
here.

Pete


On Jan 26, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Geopilot wrote:

> http://dvice.com/archives/2008/01/trev_is_the_tin.php#more
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:14:32 -0900
From: Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] FW: Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

John sent this to the list yesterday but I don't see that it made it...

Are there any EV dragsters reading the list running traction devices other
than a 4 link?   ...slappers, ladders, Cal-Tracs or Slide-a-links ?

-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:22 AM
To: Mike Willmon; ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Subject: Electric Drag Car Rear End Setups

Hello to All,

In a personal email to me, Mike Willmon wrote:

>As you can see here is one satisfied customer with one obviously HOT unit
>;-)  running in the low 8's (Although I would say she is more in the mid
>9's just looking at her)
>http://www.calvertracing.com/gallery/Full%20Pics/page14pic10.htm
>  
>
>Notice the rear end stays firmly planted on the ground...
>

I'm sure her Cal-Tracs keep things planted as you said, but her rear end 
is pretty much hiked up from what I could see :-)


>I'm going with the Cal-Tracs traction bars which are raved about by
>guys running even in the 9's.  I'm just wondering that for your application
>and light car if adding a full 4-link and necessary framing would be worth
>the weight or if it would be better to get a $300 set of Cal-Tracs that add
>all of 8 lbs to the car? 



Tim and I discussed Cal-Tracs several times. They work great and were
definitely an option I was considering. However, when we had the Datsun
experts at the Epperly racing shop do up the beefy 6 point roll bar, they
had suggested that while they were welding stuff in, it would be easy for
them to make the roll bar mounts thicker and shaped just so, that at a later
date we could return and they would design, build, and install a full four
link system in my Datsun 1200, just as they have already done on several
other 1200s over the years. Here's a bit on Steve Epperly...notice his rad
Datsun B210 racer has the classic American Racing 4 spokes (favored by
Datsun fans):


http://www.ztherapy.com/bios/index.htm
http://www.ztherapy.com/bios/images/b210b.jpg


I gave them the go-ahead to do this, so the heavy duty platforms to serve as
spring perches and mount points for a 4 link are already in place. Yes,
Cal-tracs only add 8 lbs., but according to the Epperlys, when finished with
the 4 link, minus the car's current heavy leaf springs, the new 4 link with
its coil springs would probably shave off 20 lbs. in weight...cool!

See Ya...John Wayland





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 07:17:36 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Siemens Electric Brakes
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello Victor,

I see that Siemens is developing a electric brake system that will replace 
the hydraulics, the hydraulics lines, the ABS control unit, brake booster, 
and the parking brake.

There is small electric motors on each brake disc pads that activates the 
pads.  The motors takes it power from the turning wheels.

This would be ideal for electric vehicles.

May be available by 2010.   I need a set or a full kit in 2012 when I do my 
next major mod.

Source: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2006/04/electric-brake-.html

I have read about a very high voltage proto type motor that was built back 
in the 70's or 80's.  The article was in the magazine call The Electric 
Vehicle News.  It described a 5000 volt motor only 2 inch in diameter.   The 
wire was wrap with silicone tape to prevent arc over.

The wire was so fine and the tape was so thin and clear, that the wire look 
like a bare copper wire.

I work with 5000 to 12,470 volt devices, and the voltage difference between 
each winding is not as high as you think.  If you have a 5000 volt 
transformer with 5000 wire coils, then the voltage difference is 
5000V/5000W= 1 Volt between each winding.

The two output leads have to be insulated with a 5000 volt rated insulation 
about 5/8 inch in diameter if the two wires are together. This type of 
insulation is very soft like most PVC wires that does not have to have a 
outer jacket.

Above 5000 volts, we have to use a triple jacket wire with a bleeder jacket 
that is grounded to a neutral and earth.  The diameters of a 1/0 wire is 
from 1 to 2 inches inch in diameter if install in conduit or direct bury.

When we use 7200 volt wires in switch gear, that has only one single layer 
of insulation which makes the wire 2 inches in diameter.  This wire is tape 
wrap with insulation that looks just like friction tape. This type of wire 
are suspended on insulations in a metal clad enclosure.

The problem in high voltage devices, is not the voltage difference between 
the windings, but the clearance needed for the take off leads.

Roland





> On 1/25/08, Metric Mind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > FWIW, I'm adding high voltage AC inverters to the line of units I have.
> > For high power and low current (<300 battery amps) application standard
> > EV bus voltage (650VDC) is used, it's pretty common. 200kW inverters
> > I'll be getting next month (EVI-200) will take up to 900VDC in max.
> > Motors are designed for that voltage. 350V is medium voltage for AC
> > systems. 65...140V inverters formerly made by Siemens are no longer
> > in production.
> >
> > BRUSA has line of 960VDC input AC systems for long time; same applies
> > for their line of DC-DC converters.
> >
> > MES' standard Z5 Zebra battery is configurable in series/parallel
> > config with 570VDC output in series. This is standard option
> > made specifically because HV systems are gaining acceptance
> > for obvious advantages that still outweighing [real or perceived]
> > shortcomings.
> >
> > At least 5 people working on high voltage AC drive based
> > conversions (myself included) and we will see how it plays out.
> >
> > Now, this has little to do with DC systems, where it is simpler to
> > use low(er) voltage and high current motors to gain power.
> > So if David thought mostly about those, he is right - it is unlikely
> > they will ever get above 350VDC. Simply no need.
> >
> > Of course, DC machine gains power by increasing torque on the shaft,
> > while AC ones - by raising RPM at which decent torque is still
> > maintained (and this is possible because higher battery voltage
> > to fight motor's BEMF is available), but we're not about to debate
> > AC vs DC again. My only point was that >500VDC voltage in a vehicle
> > is not that unusual as might be perceived, and insulation requirements
> > for 350V systems vs. 500V ones are not that much different.
> > Close to 900V you use thicker insulation and more spacing to avoid
> > arc over, but basic wiring is still the same. And, far easier to
> > bend/route battery cabling :-)
> >
> > --
> > Victor
> > '91 ACRX - something different
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:29:53 -0600
From: "Steven **" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric cars on TV
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I got this recorded.  It's about 8 minutes of EV talk.  Seems to have
been cut short (mid-sentence) by a commercial...

Should I try to clip the video and post it on YouTube?  Anyone
interested in seeing that didn't catch it already?

-Steven

On Jan 26, 2008 10:43 AM, JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Forecast Earth on the Weather Channel promises an hour
> of electric/alternative fuel cars today at 5 PM Eastern,
> baring any last minute extreme weather coverage.
>
> They have been showing preview promos almost every hour.
>
> John in Sylmar, CA
> Driving on sunshine, gas-free!
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:41:02 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] What to use for a 144v indicator light?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

 
 
I am using a Radio Shack indicator (272-707) with a 100K resistor in  series. 
 It is the neon type and works well.

Message:  16
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:08:01 -0700
From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] What to use for a 144v indicator  light?

I have tried a 120v bulb in a
small socket meant for  candelabras - maybe not the most robust bulb, I
don't know...    It blew out after ~ 10 minutes of being lit.   My car is
144v,  and of course fully charged, puts out ~156 volts, with the voltage
varying  as speed changes.    Any ideas?





Thank  you,

Dave Delman
1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
electricdelorean.com



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:01:30 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Glitter in the coolant?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

 
 
Well so far this is what I can report.... Some glitter has stuck to the  wall 
of the tubing at the highest point in the system when the water level was  
too low so it dried there.  Again I used so little of it to begin with it  is 
hardly noticeable.  I estimate there to be about 1.5 - 2 quarts of  antifreeze 
- 
water solution in my system.
 
The glitter I am using is called Jimmy Jem's POWDERZ  the color Prisma  
Silver # CAK315.  It was $1.79 at Pearl Arts and Crafts and I have enough  for 
about 10 -15 vehicles.  They probably have 100 different colors.   Mine has a 
silvery rainbow look.
 
 

Message:  24
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:59:35 -0500
From: "dave cover"  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Glitter in the  coolant?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"  <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Let us know how it works. Look forward  to hearing the long term
report. After you've had some time with it I'll be  asking; Does it
stay in solution? How much coolant does your system have?  Is 1/2
teaspoon enough? What type of glitter is it?

Dave  Cover



 
Thank  you,

Dave Delman
1981 Electric DeLorean  Project
electricdelorean.com



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:15:21 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Interesting article...we already know! The future is
        electric.
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The death knell of mechanical systems....

http://www.memagazine.org/contents/current/features/endofme/endofme.html
_____________________________________________________________
Click here for free info on prostate cancer prevention and treatment!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4un2Cb0f66yjjKcV3gZfOytk8InuWpHxqQYA6Ucf9jPB8dbB/





------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:17:51 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Glitter in the coolant?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

THis reminds me of the little tubes of copper collored dust we used to stop 
leaks in the radiator.....
_____________________________________________________________
Find the best Gourmet Gifts. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tHT9Ic1uuGztgjbEQBkA3YIVuiNDrELPooLZKqscHLRaOC7/





------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:51:56 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] K2 factory may be identified and lower prices
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

minhd wrote:
> Wow, the price for these batteries are awesome.  Has anyone ordered batteries
> directly from the manufacturer?  How this this process work?  Credit card
> payment and wait?  What is the estimated lead-time?  
>   

contact them through alibaba.com. 
http://dlgbattery.en.alibaba.com/product/50418828/52250782/Powertool_battery_series/Powertool_Li_ion_battery_series.html

and say you would like to purchase 1500, could you get a quote for that 
(as well as shipping cost). I have only purchased samples so that was 
normal mail but the payment is bank transfer. you get their data and 
then it's a standard banking system for wire transfer. my netbanking 
could do it.
the shipping is some freighting system that I take is similarly 
worldwide standard but I haven't tried that. I was quoted a cost to my 
nearest harbor but not sure how it works for pickup etc. try to work 
that out without DLGs help. it should be standard so find it out 
elsewhere please so we don't appear as children to them. act like an 
import company. short and sweet. you may have to do some customs 
paperwork too

Dan



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:51:12 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Dragin' Video Footage
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

hehe the cardboard box is funny. I thought it was just a silly mockup at 
first. if his feet are in the air and his hands are on the wheel what 
muscle is he using for throttle  :)



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:42:53 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric cars on TV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Steven ** wrote:
> Should I try to clip the video and post it on YouTube?  Anyone
> interested in seeing that didn't catch it already?
>   

of course



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:54:27 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Valence batteries
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu (ev list)
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        
Content-Type: text/plain

  I could only find one reference in the archive to actual use of these 
batteries and I believe 
it was a bicycle. Has anyone used these batteries in a full size EV? Is the 
cost the only
reason they are not used?
Thanks
Rick Prentiss

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:12:47 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Valence batteries
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

A few have used them:

http://www.evalbum.com/battb/VALN

And yes, price is a big issue.



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:14:49 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Life without my EV sucks
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

just for reference. I drive an EV for a lot of reasons, I started
because I wanted to zero out the balance sheet for my fuel usage; Solar
on roof and an electric car. But the other major reason is that I live
in a valley with bad air quality and I have breathing difficulties, I 
felt it hypocritical to drive a gas car and complain about the smog.

Once I started driving it I found that I really like the lack of waiting
for the car to warm up (the charger keeps the car warm enough to keep
the frost off the window.) I love the smooth operation. I love the
simplicity. The ICE I have, is near impossible to work on, 4 hours to
change the plugs.(pontiac user groups joke about the back 3 plugs being
under the dash) Today I will try to change the thermostat, but that
requires removing the throttle body, air cleaner and exhaust crossover.
Just way to many pieces.

I am an engineer type, I believe in using the right tool for the right job.

-------------------------------
 Optimist : glass is half full
Pessimist : glass is half empty
Engineer  : glass is too big.








------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:54:25 -0000
From: "martin winlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SMART as conversion platform
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <!&[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Um... I assume you watched the video?  If so I am puzzled by your reaction.

In my view the video demonstrates the SMART has very good crash worthiness.
The passenger cabin is still more or less intact, even the doors open and
perhaps, more importantly, did not open on impact.  

It also has a very good NCAP (European crash test) rating. I can't honestly
see many vehicles doing better after decelerating from 70MPH to 0 in less
than a second.

Of course, after retro-fitting a 100kg battery pack, things might turn out
differently.

MW

 


Regards, Martin Winlow

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Metric Mind
Sent: 25 January 2008 23:47
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] SMART as conversion platform

If you consider SMART car for a conversion (or just drive it as is) and
don't think it's overall safe car, you can witness its crash worthiness
here:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/60538/smart_car_crash/

No doubt Mercedes knows their stuff.

--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:07:11 -0800 (PST)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] SMART as conversion platform
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I think Victor, was thinking it is a SAFE car.  If you
built it with a lithium pack, it would still be safe
as the original, especially if you mounted the pack
where the gas tank was.

I'm still trying to find one or two up in Canada with
blown diesel engines.  Maybe someday.........


--- martin winlow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Um... I assume you watched the video?  If so I am
> puzzled by your reaction.
> 
> In my view the video demonstrates the SMART has very
> good crash worthiness.
> The passenger cabin is still more or less intact,
> even the doors open and
> perhaps, more importantly, did not open on impact.  
> 
> It also has a very good NCAP (European crash test)
> rating. I can't honestly
> see many vehicles doing better after decelerating
> from 70MPH to 0 in less
> than a second.
> 
> Of course, after retro-fitting a 100kg battery pack,
> things might turn out
> differently.
> 
> MW
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Regards, Martin Winlow
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Metric Mind
> Sent: 25 January 2008 23:47
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: [EVDL] SMART as conversion platform
> 
> If you consider SMART car for a conversion (or just
> drive it as is) and
> don't think it's overall safe car, you can witness
> its crash worthiness
> here:
> 
> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/60538/smart_car_crash/
> 
> No doubt Mercedes knows their stuff.
> 
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 




------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:22:23 -0800 (PST)
From: shred <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Valence batteries
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


>From Valence
"List pricing (FOB CHINA) for the U-Charge battery line is as follows:
 U-Charge Module
 List Price
 U1-12XP
 $    860.00 
 
U24-12XP
 $ 2,030.00 
  
U27-12XP
 $ 2,550.00 
 
UEV-18XP
 $ 1,935.00 
 
U-BMS
 $    135.00 
 
U1-12RTL
 $    600.00 
 
U1-12RT
 $    860.00 
 
U24-12RT
 $ 2,030.00 
 
U27-12RT
 $ 2,550.00 
 
U-BDI
 $      40.00 "
price From GBP batteries
"Our best price of 48V/100Ah polymer pack is USD2730.00/pc, based on 6 pcs,
FOB Shenzhen, T/T or L/C payment, the delivery date is within 35 days.
 our quotation includes BMS, not the compatible charger. 
Our best price of 48V battery charger is USD105.00/pc, FOB Shenzhen"
Neal
 


evpage wrote:
> 
>   I could only find one reference in the archive to actual use of these
> batteries and I believe 
> it was a bicycle. Has anyone used these batteries in a full size EV? Is
> the cost the only
> reason they are not used?
> Thanks
> Rick Prentiss
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Valence-batteries-tp15120633p15121425.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:49:34 -0800
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] another VERY nice looking electric three wheeler
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Are freeways in Australia like the autobahn?

"And since Trev's speed tops out at 75 miles per hour, it is pretty much
limited to urban trips."



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:06:27 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Poor man's line lock brakes...
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

NmGs like Tweety, and I suspect Sparrows as well, have a proportioning valve 
for the rear brakes.  I decided to see if I (temporarily) turned it all the 
way "off" perhaps it could be used like line lock brakes.  Well, it works good 
enough.  With the valve all the way "off" there is still just a bit of brake 
action on the rear but light enough to not burn the brakes up during a burnout. 
 
So I gave it a try.  Heidi took the video and I put it up on the Hot Juice 
Electric website.  It can be accessed at: 
http://www.hotjuiceelectric.com/tweetygallery.html
Just click on the burnout link or picture under VIDEOS:
I just built the gallery page this morning so it still needs a lot of work.  
Sorry about the slow loading of the page.  That is an easy fix, I just haven't 
had time to fix it yet.  It's all coming along slow but sure!

During the burnout, the speedometer was sitting on 75 MPH.  That is the 
Zilla's RPM limit.  When I let off the brakes and it started to catch traction 
it 
dropped to around 68 and held there until I got off of it.  It finally became 
clear that it wasn't going to stop burning for the length of the street and I 
needed some stopping distance!  The eeeeerrrrrpp at the end is where I let off.

Ken



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.     
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489



------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:42:27 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Valence batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>   I could only find one reference in the archive to actual use of these 
> batteries and I believe 
> it was a bicycle. Has anyone used these batteries in a full size EV? Is the 
> cost the only
> reason they are not used?
>   

their modules are rather expensive if I recall correctly and are not 
designed for high performance but should be good quality. their cells 
are fine too and the price is even almost reasonable IF you buy a 
minimum of 10000. (5$)
DLG battery of china has what appears to be a superior cell at the same 
price but in volume of 1000. but you need to put them together into a 
pack etc..


Dan



------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:28:17 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] another VERY nice looking electric three wheeler
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

That, or maybe it should have read 75 kph, which probably isn't fast
enough for freeways.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Jan 27, 2008 11:49 AM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are freeways in Australia like the autobahn?
>
> "And since Trev's speed tops out at 75 miles per hour, it is pretty much
> limited to urban trips."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:29:48 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] High voltage systems
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

henry buehler wrote:
> Trying to come up with a concept without any idea what I am talking
> about. A one cell battery connected to a coil for a timed pulse of
> electrical power for an AC motor. Three phase AC is it a full sine
> wave or a half? A sine wave to start and a pulse square wave when
> running? Six cases of batteries connected to coils, two for each
> phase? Each battery can be off or connected to coil or all can be
> charging.

Try this: Get an old car alternator; it is really a 3-phase AC 
synchronous motor. Take it apart, and bring out the 3 wires from the 
coils that normally go to the internal diodes. Also find the field coil 
connections to the two slip rings.

Wire up six regular 120vac light switches to the 3 coils like this (view 
with a fixed width font).

        _ _ _
+12V__| | | |_____________________________
        rotor   |      |                   |
        field   |    S1 /                  |
        coil    |      |_____              |
                |      |     |             |
                |    S2 /    |_            |
                |      |      _| stator    |
                |     GND     _| "A"       |
                |             _| coil      |
              S3 /   _ _ _   |    _ _ _     / S5
                |___| | | |__|___| | | |___|
                |    stator       stator   |
              S4 /   "B"          "C"       / S6
                |    coil         coil     |
               GND                        GND

The six switches S1-S6 do what electronic switches (transistors, 
MOSFETs, IGBTs, etc.) do in an AC controller. By experimenting, you'll 
find that:

1. With all the switches off, no current flows, and the alternator
    can be spun by hand freely.

2. If you close one upper switch and its matching lower switch
    (S1+S2, or S3+S4, or S5+S6), then current flows through the field
    coil, but not through any stator coils. The alternator can still
    be spun freely by hand.

    But, put a meter between any two of the stator coils (A-B, B-C,
    or C-A). You'll find that it is acting as a generator; when you
    turn the alternator, an AC voltage is generated on each coil.

3. If you close *two* pairs of switch (S1+S2 and S3+S4, for example),
    current flows in the field *and* you have shorted one of the stator
    coils. Now the alternator gets harder to rotate by hand, and you
    don't have a voltage generated on the the stator windings (because
    they are shorted).

4. Now the tricky part. If you operate the switches in just the right
    sequence, the alternator turns as a motor. Try this sequence:

       S1  S2  S3  S4  S5  S6
       --  --  --  --  --  --
    1. on          on      on
    2. on      on          on
    3.     on  on          on
    4.     on  on      on
    5.     on      on  on
    6. on          on  on

    When you get to step 6, repeat step 1. The alternator should
    turn a little bit with each step. If you keep it up for several
    cycles 1-6, the alternator will make a complete revolution.

This is how a "stepper motor" works. You find them in clocksm where you 
can see each step as the second hand moves in jerks.

A series DC motor replaces the switches with a mechanical rotary switch, 
called the commutator. This switch is linked to the motor's shaft, so it 
automatically rotates to the next step as the motor turns.

A shunt or sepex (separately excited) DC motor is the same thing, but 
the field is wired in parallel (shunts across) the switches and their coils.

A PM (Permanent Magnet) DC motor replaces the field with a magnet.

An AC motor has an inverter to operate six electronic switches in the 
right sequence. Again, the field can be series, shunt or PM. If PM, it's 
called a "brushless DC" motor.

For an induction AC motor, you short the field winding, and depend on 
transformer coupling from the three phase windings to power it.

I built such a setup as my first hands-on demo of how motors work. I 
then replaced the mechanical switches with transistors, operated by an 
old 4-channel stereo amplifier, so I could easily control the waveforms 
to the switches.

If you do this, you'll find that sinewaves, square waves, triangle 
waves, and just about any waveform you can think of can make the motor 
run. It just works better with some waveforms than others. The 
construction of the motor affects what waveforms it prefers.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 12:47:12 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] High voltage systems (was: my first post to this
        EVDL)
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Metric Mind wrote:


> For high power and low current (<300 battery amps)

How about high power and high current?

Is there anything available on the AC side that offers 640,000 Watts or more?

Can the AC motors take that kind of power and more?



------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:59:58 -0500
From: "David Hrivnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] charge in parallel, discharge in series
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Jeff what trouble with you have with Dual-Pro?  I did have one fail but they
were great on the replacement.  Just one call and I had it in 2 days and
they gave me the label to send it back postage free.

To be fair I was having it charger two batteries per lead and now I have one
lead per battery.  I only have a week of operation so it remains to be seen
if it will work long term but they do seen rugged enough.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jeff Major
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 11:01 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] charge in parallel, discharge in series


Hi David,

I also use individual 12 volt charging on 48 volt
utility trucks.  I tried the Dual Pro.  The 4 bank SE
model.  Had some trouble with it.  Did some testing. 
Results were disappointing.  Went back to the Minn
Kota multiple chargers.  They work great.

Regards,

Jeff M


--- David Hrivnak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have not had a lot of experience here but I think
> I am doing this and it
> appears to be working.  I have twelve 12V batteries
> in 2 72V strings.  Each
> battery has its own charger.   I am using Dual-Pro
> Lil 3 chargers each
> charger will charge 3 batteries and thus I have 4 of
> them.
> 
> They seem to charge the batteries to the same level
> and if I running a test
> on say two batteries the chargers bring them all
> back to the same level.
> The batteries not used in the test will immediately
> go to float mode and
> those I used may take a few hours to reach their
> charge, depending on how
> long I tested.  I have been lightly testing for 3
> months now.
> 
> So the batteries are connected to the charger and in
> a 72V string at the
> same time.  That does not appear to be a problem.
> 



 
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

End of EV Digest, Vol 6, Issue 87
*********************************

Reply via email to