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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: UK EV Van ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   2. Re: Spark-EV's Zotye - Forum up (Steven **)
   3. Ni-Cad spit charger shutdown (Mark Hanson)
   4. GM should sell Volt "batteries not included" (Lee Hart)
   5. Re: Tablet PC's for EV USE. (Steven **)
   6. MPJA 40a 400vdc solid state relay (Lee Hart)
   7. Re: Tablet PC's for EV USE. (Shawn Rutledge)
   8. Re: Kelly Controller, does this make sense? (Josh Creel)
   9. Re: GM should sell Volt "batteries not included" (Roland Wiench)
  10. Re: Tablet PC's for EV USE. (Shawn Rutledge)
  11. Re: MPJA 40a 400vdc solid state relay (damon henry)
  12. Re: Tablet PC's for EV USE. (Steven **)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:17:49 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK EV Van
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Talked to the guy again and he said Harby not Darby. Does that help?  
I decided not to purchase this vehicle. Way too much trouble and I am  
having enough trouble with what I have anyway.

Pete



On Feb 8, 2008, at 12:11 AM, Cor van de Water wrote:

> No, not the VW Derby, that is a sedan type vehicle:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Derby
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225    VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675    eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
> On Behalf Of martin winlow
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 2:49 AM
> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK EV Van
>
>  Hi,
>
> Just a thought, but where did you get 'Darby' from?  I ask, as it  
> may actually be 'Derby' but pronounced Darby in a similar way to  
> Hertfordshire (where I live incidentally) being pronounced  
> 'Hartfordsire' and not 'Hurtfordshire'.  One of those rather daft  
> idiosyncrasies of English, I'm afraid.
>
> If you could clean up the manufacturers plates in either  
> DSCF0016.JPG or DSCF0017.JPG enough to make out the manufacturer  
> and the serial number the manufacturer may be able to tell you who  
> they supplied the part to and what for.
>
>> From the looks of the electronics it looks like a 60's or 70's job to
>> me
> with possibly some alteration somewhat later.
>
> I've been in the Metropolitan Police (London) for 20 years and  
> never seen or heard of anything like it. Most of the (40+) UK  
> police forces (we have to call them 'services' nowadays) have  
> museums so it might be worth firing off a group email to them.
>
> If it is ex-police, my guess would be that it was used by a force  
> like the Ministry of Defence (MOD) police on one of their huge  
> bases for trundling around delivering stuff from A to B.
>
> I don't know much about milk floats (small electric vans with a  
> basic cab and open sided load area designed to deliver milk etc  
> door-to-door) but it may be that the chassis and running gear of  
> your mystery van is off one of these with a GRP body stuck on it.   
> I believe there are groups out there that deal with these things.
>
> They are still very common in London - many are getting on for 40  
> or more years old.  It's ironic that these machines, some of which  
> must have done millions of miles (so far!), are considered to be  
> the worst example of EV's .  When you mention EV's to people in the  
> UK they inevitably bring out the milk-float comparison jokes.
>
> Anyway,  good luck.
>
> Regards, Martin Winlow.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Subject: [EVDL] UK EV Van
>
>
> I have found an interesting Van nearby. I was told it was a Police  
> Van used in the UK. Called a Darby. I found no information on the  
> web. It looks to be factory built and built hell for stout. It has  
> an electric motor that is about 13" + in diameter. The motor is  
> HUGE. It is direct drive. Have a look at the photo album. Please  
> respond and does anyone have any ideas about this set up. Ask  
> questions and make comments and most of all should I buy it? I am  
> thinking of doing so but the thing looks like it would be hard to  
> get parts for.
>
> http://inertext.homeunix.com Photo Album
>
> Send in your ideas. Body is fiberglass. Has low slung side battery  
> cases.
> Has throttle pot wich is very large and loads of contactors. Loads  
> of cabling and then the motor which is direct to the rear end. It  
> would make a pretty cool EV for delivering produce in town. Not  
> sure of the Voltage or what kind of electric motor is in this thing.
>
> Any Ideas or suggestions. It is funky but cool.
>
> Pete : )
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:38:52 -0600
From: "Steven **" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Spark-EV's Zotye - Forum up
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

You'll notice they've removed almost all the photos on the Zotye
description page and replaced them with a (frustrated) explanation.

-Steven

On Feb 7, 2008 10:01 PM, Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yeah, but over there who's going to notice that the electric car in the
> chinese video has a tailpipe?
>
>
>
>
> Stuart Friedrich and Wendy Lyn wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd agree with David - no point cluttering up EVDL when you use the forum
> > that they have created for themselves.
> >
> > http://www.spark-ev.com/index.php
> >
> >
> > Head over there and bang away!
> >
> >
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008
> >> 16:25:37 -0500> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Spark-EV's Zotye> > On 6 Feb 2008 at
> >> 14:15, Steven ** wrote:> > > what's with that video? > > why was it
> >> always moving so slow?> > We want to hear> > that lack of engine noise!>
> >> > Don't bother asking or commenting. It's a waste of time. The company's
> >> > principal has made it clear that he doesn't care one whit what we
> >> think. He > believes his market lies elsewhere and he dismisses us all
> >> (meaning EVDL > members) as wackos, treehuggers, nutcases, etc. > > Kind
> >> of a funny way of marketing - insulting and disparaging the people most >
> >> likely to buy your product. Oh well; his loss, not ours.> > Actually, I'd
> >> rather not discuss Spark-EV on the EVDL. Why give such a > narrow-minded
> >> individual any more publicity? I'd much rather we'd talk > about the
> >> Sunrise II project and Jerry's Freedom EV, which are headed by > real EV
> >> people.> > David Roden> EVDL Administrator> http://www.ev!
> >  dl.org/> > > _______________________________________________> For
> > subscription options, see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://www.nabble.com/Spark-EV%27s-Zotye-tp14886219p15349071.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:57:14 -0500
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Ni-Cad spit charger shutdown
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Hi,
 
With my 16 STM5-180's with 10k miles on them I noticed a strange anomoly.  I 
havn't watered them for the last 3k miles and the spit detector keeps shutting 
off the charger at about 80% charge about 8.3V per batt.  There are a few drops 
of electrolyte going past the spit detector so it is actually spitting even 
though the electrolyte levels are at MIN.  Shouldn't the batteries not spit if 
the electrolyte levels are low?  
 
The only thing I can think of is the batteries closest to the watering end 
that's valve closed off are lower than the exit end where the pressure is 
allowed to release but looking at the levels last night it was a minor 
difference.  I'll have to pull the caps since it's really hard to see the water 
levels anyway.
 
I have 6 batts up front and 2 strings of 5 on either side of the motor.  The 
spit detector is on the left rear side exit tube of 5 batteries.  It's 2 safety 
pins jabbed into the tygon clear plastic tubing and the uP detects when the 
resistance drops below 10k ohms.
 
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star 
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:07:27 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt "batteries not included"
To: EV list <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

 > GM Will Need to Provide Big Subsidies for Volt
 >
 > There will likely be a big gap between customer expectations and the
 > actual cost to build Chevrolet?s first plug-in hybrid, the Volt, a
 > senior General Motors executive tells TheCarConnection.com. That
 > means, at least for the first few years of production, the automaker
 > will have to heavily subsidize production of the high-profile,
 > high-mileage vehicle.

Carmakers don't supply fuel for any of their other cars. They expect
consumers to go to a gas station and fill it up themselves. The fuel
used affects the performance (regular or premium, gasoline or gasohol, etc.)

Lots of products are sold "batteries not included." Consumers have
to buy the batteries themselves. The performance of the product
natually depends on what batteries the consumer buys (cheap ones, or
expensive ones).

So, I have a radical idea. Why doesn't GM supply the Volt *without
batteries*? It still runs as a gasoline car. It's lighter, cheaper, and
not much harder to build than any other car. They wouldn't have to spend 
a penny on exotic battery R&D, and could introduce the Volt in the same 
time frame as any other car.

But, include a "battery box" in the trunk that fits standard size
batteries. There are already dozens of battery manufacturers, and dozens
of standard size batteries they could choose from. Consumers could buy 
plain old lead acids to save money (but get shorter range), or more 
expensive and higher performance nimh or lithium-ion for more range.

And, if GM builds it, the batteries will come! GM would create the
market, and you can bet dozens of companies would rush to make something
that drops into that battery box!

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:28:10 -0600
From: "Steven **" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tablet PC's for EV USE.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

If you're looking for low-power and open, you should look at the
Neo1973 or Neo Freerunner(coming soon).  These two "mobile computing
platforms" are ultra low-power and have an open-source software stack.
 I've been thinking of using one in my conversion.  Or maybe some of
the gumstix hardware.  I believe that's pretty open.

-Steven

On Feb 7, 2008 8:25 AM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm, well judging by the completed auctions on eBay, these sell for about
> $200-$250 in excellent working condition without the dock.
> $300 sounds about right for one in excellent condition with the dock.
>
> Of course that puts you at the same price as a brand new Asus 2G Surf,
> which might make a better data logging PC given it's smaller size and
> lower power requirements.
> Or a Nokia N800, which is even cheaper, smaller, and lower power but
> requires some hacking to work as a USB host (the Surf comes with host
> ports).
>
>
> > Our school has recently removed from service 7 ViewSonic Viewpad 1000
> > tablet PCs.   Basic specs for these computers can be seen here:
> >
> > http://www.viewsonic.com/support/mobilewireless/tabletpc/viewpad1000/
> >
> > The ones we have have been upgraded to 384 megs of ram and they all have
> > working wireless keyboards and 80211b wireless cards.  They have 10 gig
> > hard drives and fully working touch screens and web cameras.
> >
> > They also all have the optional docking station that includes a cd-rom
> > drive.
> >
> > They are all in good working condition with no problems save the
> > following.
> >
> > One of the docking stations is broken.  Not sure what is wrong, but it
> > refuses to un-dock properly and the usb ports on it do not seem to work.
> >
> > Three of the keyboards are missing their battery covers (two double A
> > batteries) and as such have tape covering the batteries.
> >
> > One of the keyboards is missing the escape key's cover.  The key still
> > works.
> >
> > Other than that they are in good shape and were just removed from working
> > service where they were being used as Point Of Sale Cash registers in our
> > food services.
> >
> > I think these would make great data capture computers or even the basis
> > for gps or lots of other EV (or non EV) use.  I've been toying around with
> > the idea of putting one in my car just to play with.
> >
> > They can run windows XP fine, but will ship with the stock Windows 2K
> > installed and a copy of the re-install CD.
> >
> > So how much?  I really don't know what is fair.  Ebay is usually my guide
> > on these things, but none of the ones on there right now come with the
> > docks, and the prices range from $600.00  (way to high) to about $60.00
> > (way too low).
> >
> > I'd like to get about $300.00 each, but I'll entertain any and all serious
> > offers.
> >
> > If anyone would like to purchase one or more of these, or if you have any
> > other questions, please email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > James
> > --
> > If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer,
> > a Rolls-Royce today would cost $100, get a million miles to the gallon,
> > and explode once every few weeks, killing everyone inside.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:10:17 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] MPJA 40a 400vdc solid state relay
To: EV list <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

A couple months ago, Marlin P. Jones <www.mpja.com> had a great price 
for a 400vdc 40amp solid state relay (item# 17289RL, $16.95). I bought a 
couple to test.

Synopsis: These things are crap. Caveat emptor!

Top markings:
        Gold DC SSR, model SDP4040D, CE
        12-480VDC 40a load
        3.5-32VDC input
Side markings (exactly as written):
        Attentation CE ETS Germany, EMC tested, ISO-9001 Quality passed
        AFTER TESTING, IT'S ELIGIBLE
        Use spacial fuse to pretect load shorting
        The temperture of sink at use must low than 75c
        It's better to attend varistor for inductance load
        Made in China, Gold Control Tech. Co. Ltd
        Tel&Fax: 0086-5160178 2007.07.03

It had a 2.8v drop at 40 amps, and even on a huge heatsink quickly 
overheated and failed. I disassembled it to see why.

Prying off the black plastic cover reveals a badly potted PC board with 
a little toroid transformer held on with double-stick tape. The black 
potting compound was rock hard, and could not be removed by melting. I 
found that soaking it overnight in acetone did soften it a bit; if then 
heated to 200 deg.F it could be laboriously dug out. There are huge 
voids in the potting; perhaps 50% of the case actually got filled.

The PC board is single-sided, no silkscreen or solder mask, and hand 
soldered. There are no ICs, no optocoupler, it's all thru-hole parts. 
Traces that carry high current are only 0.1" wide, but have a piece of 
#18 bare wire soldered along them.

The power transistor is a Toshiba GT60M104 IGBT, rated 900vces peak, 60a 
at 25 deg.C, Vce(on)=2.4v typical, 3.7v max. The relay failed because 
they cut the leads off the transistor close to the case, and soldered 
pieces of #18 wire between the transistor lead and PC board traces; the 
solder melted on these connections due to the heat at 40a.

The base of the relay is an 1/8" thick aluminum plate. In the center is 
a 1" square x 0.020" thick white ceramic plate, metallized on both 
sides. They apparently tinned one side with solder, heated the aluminum 
plate above the melting point of the solder, and pressed it in place. 
The solder didn't stick to the aluminum, but at least it formed a weak 
bond and filled the gaps with a good heat conductor.

They then laid the 4-sided plastic case on the base, and glued it on 
with clear silicone rubber. The transistor was glued to the metalized 
surface of the ceramic plate with what looks like white silicone rubber 
(thick and rubbery; not like heatsink compound at all). It looked like a 
very poor heat transfer method, and probably contributed to the 
transistor's overheating and solder joint failures.

I haven't dug off all the black potting compound yet, so I can't trace 
out the whole circuit. But basically, it looks like a 1-transistor 
oscillator that drove the primary of the little toroid transformer, and 
a rectifier on the secondary side to drive the gate of the IGBT.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:18:26 -0700
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tablet PC's for EV USE.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Feb 8, 2008 11:28 AM, Steven ** <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you're looking for low-power and open, you should look at the
> Neo1973 or Neo Freerunner(coming soon).  These two "mobile computing
> platforms" are ultra low-power and have an open-source software stack.

I have one of these.

If your vehicle had an embedded monitoring computer with Bluetooth,
that would be a decent way to connect a variety of devices.  You just
need to write a monitoring app for whatever platform you choose to
use.  It might have a better future than trying to embed a particular
kind of mobile device into the vehicle - then that device either stops
working at some point or just starts to look dated and obsolete.  E.g.
before I got the Neo I was doing some Linux software prototyping and
development on a Zaurus SL-6000L, but the battery went bad.  It
swelled up inside its plastic casing, maybe because I left the PDA
connected to the charger most of the time, and maybe their
battery-management circuit wasn't smart enough, and kept
trickle-charging it, or something.  The battery apparently was
custom-made for that PDA, and now isn't made anymore, less than 4
years since the PDA was new.  (And when you could still buy them they
were crazy expensive.)  I cut open the casing of the battery and took
out the lithium-ion cell, and now I need to find a way to turn that
casing into an adapter which can contain some other kind of battery.
I'm thinking the Nokia 770 battery might be a good choice since a lot
of them have been made, and Nokia will probably keep selling batteries
for many years.  So you can imagine what kind of predicament I'd be in
if I'd used that PDA for anything important.  (The Nokia 770/800/810
would also be good options for an EV; they are larger, so easier to
read, and also have Bluetooth and USB, but I think the USB is
slave-only.)

The Neo1973 can in theory act as a USB host, so that might be another
option; but mostly the USB is used as a slave device (you connect the
phone to a computer to charge the battery, and to form a network
connection to it, for development purposes etc.)  You could use an
Atmel USB microcontroller to do whatever monitoring you need to do,
and then connect any USB laptop or this phone or whatever.

The FreeRunner is supposed to add the ability to supply a small amount
of power to a slave device when the phone is acting as a USB host.
(The 1973 can't do that.)  They also hope to have the power management
issues solved by the time the FreeRunner is released; the 1973 has
problems in this area, and you can't get a full day of battery life
from it yet.  At least its battery is physically the same as a certain
Nokia one, although the phone will not charge that kind of battery.

As a development platform it's great; I just can't use it as my
regular phone yet because of the power management problem.



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:27:22 -0500
From: "Josh Creel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kelly Controller, does this make sense?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

OK I get it now.
    Would a 120VDC specific controller be better, that is more efficiant, 
than say a Curtis 1231C that is rated fro 144VDC but only run on 120VDC? 
Would it build more heat?  I guess I was thinking that if I was to get the 
Curtis,  then run it on 120VDC,  then it would be easier on the controller, 
is that incorrect?

thanks for the help
Josh and Jenifer

www.jcsevparts.com



> Yeah, it makes sense.
>
> Their max current ratings decreasing with increasing voltage ratings
> makes sense; other MOSFET-based controller lines work the same way.
> And their comment that a 120V controller won't work with a 144V pack
> is obviously correct.
>
> On to their advice for the 120V 600A controller. That makes sense, too.
>
> A 120V controller probably uses lower voltage MOSFETs which have lower
> Rds-on (they just say Ron, but it's the same thing, drain-source
> on-state resistance). If you use a higher voltage controller than you
> need, it will have a higher resistance, so there will be more waste
> heat, so you can't push it as hard without overheating.
>
> That's basically exactly what they said, but I think it might make
> more sense this way.
>
> It's still up to you whether you want the 144V controller now despite
> the slightly reduced efficiency or if you want to take them up on
> their offer of a 120V controller now and a "deep discount" in the
> future.
>
> The efficiency difference should be pretty insignificant. You might go
> from 0.9V of loss to 1.4V of loss. Those numbers are made up; I'm just
> saying that the efficiency difference really only matters for
> controller cooling, not for vehicle efficiency.
>
> Note that this is only for MOSFETs; it doesn't apply to IGBT-based
> controllers (like Zilla).
>
> -Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:41:28 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt "batteries not included"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="Windows-1252"

I try to license and register my EV back in 76 without the batteries.  Did 
not think at that time of having the manufacturer sell me the car, 
separating the cost of the car and the fuel for the vehicle which is the 
batteries.

I had to pay property tax on addition $2700.00 worth of batteries which was 
use up in about 10 years and still paying some taxes on that increase the 
value of the EV.

Its like buying a vehicle with a 1000 gallons of gasoline that increases the 
value of the machine about $3000.00 which you paid the gas tax on it, and 
then pay the property tax on that value and still pay the vehicle tax on 
that value after you use it up.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV list" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:07 AM
Subject: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt "batteries not included"


> GM Will Need to Provide Big Subsidies for Volt
 >
 > There will likely be a big gap between customer expectations and the
 > actual cost to build Chevrolet?s first plug-in hybrid, the Volt, a
 > senior General Motors executive tells TheCarConnection.com. That
 > means, at least for the first few years of production, the automaker
 > will have to heavily subsidize production of the high-profile,
 > high-mileage vehicle.

Carmakers don't supply fuel for any of their other cars. They expect
consumers to go to a gas station and fill it up themselves. The fuel
used affects the performance (regular or premium, gasoline or gasohol, etc.)

Lots of products are sold "batteries not included." Consumers have
to buy the batteries themselves. The performance of the product
natually depends on what batteries the consumer buys (cheap ones, or
expensive ones).

So, I have a radical idea. Why doesn't GM supply the Volt *without
batteries*? It still runs as a gasoline car. It's lighter, cheaper, and
not much harder to build than any other car. They wouldn't have to spend
a penny on exotic battery R&D, and could introduce the Volt in the same
time frame as any other car.

But, include a "battery box" in the trunk that fits standard size
batteries. There are already dozens of battery manufacturers, and dozens
of standard size batteries they could choose from. Consumers could buy
plain old lead acids to save money (but get shorter range), or more
expensive and higher performance nimh or lithium-ion for more range.

And, if GM builds it, the batteries will come! GM would create the
market, and you can bet dozens of companies would rush to make something
that drops into that battery box!

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:44:02 -0700
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tablet PC's for EV USE.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

And BTW the Gumstix have some GPIO pins, and some of them have
Bluetooth, so you could install the Gumstix in the EV, connected to as
many things as you want to monitor, and then use any Bluetooth device
with a display as the front-end.  The Gumstix connector also brings
out the pins to drive an LCD directly, so if you can find some
automotive-grade LCDs with an extended temperature range, you could
build a self-contained vehicle computer around it.  The remaining
problem might be that the Gumstix connector pops out too easily.  So
then it would be better to design a board from scratch with just what
you need... because it's probably not much harder than making a
"motherboard" for the Gumstix that has what you need, fine-pitch
connector and all.  After going full-circle back to that again, it
might be easier to use an Atmel, and you could still probably find a
Bluetooth radio module to connect to it, or just use USB.

If I ever get a Freedom EV, and then managed to find some spare time,
I was thinking of working on that, one way or another.  But I've got
my lame excuses for not having started it yet...



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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:52:56 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] MPJA 40a 400vdc solid state relay
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 13:10:17 -0600> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 
> ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Subject: [EVDL] MPJA 40a 400vdc solid state relay> > A 
> couple months ago, Marlin P. Jones <www.mpja.com> had a great price > for a 
> 400vdc 40amp solid state relay (item# 17289RL, $16.95). I bought a > couple 
> to test.> > Synopsis: These things are crap. Caveat emptor!
 
Hey, I bought a couple of those as well.  I wanted to try one as my heater 
relay.  I was hoping to replace the large open frame relay I am now using.  My 
heater is drawing about 25 amps on a nominal 80 volt pack.  Maybe I'll wire it 
in and turn the heater on to see how long it lasts :-)
 
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:00:21 -0600
From: "Steven **" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tablet PC's for EV USE.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

This is kinda what I was thinking.  Have a small microcontroller built
into the car that would have all the sensors connected to it.  The
sensor data would then be fed out over USB using some easily
interpreted scheme/protocol.

-Steven

On Feb 8, 2008 1:18 PM, Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You could use an Atmel USB microcontroller to do whatever monitoring you need 
> to do,
> and then connect any USB laptop or this phone or whatever.



------------------------------

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