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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Delta-Q Charger (Roger Stockton)
2. Re: GM should sell Volt "batteries not included" (Roger Stockton)
3. Saabrina the Saab 900 Lives! (Mark Ward)
4. Re: GM should sell Volt "batteries not included" (Roland Wiench)
5. Re: Battery Tray Material (Frank John)
6. Re: Kelly Controller, does this make sense? (Rich Long)
7. Re: Battery Tray Material (Phil Marino)
8. Re: Saabrina the Saab 900 Lives! (EV Manny)
9. Re: RE : spark EV (Dan Frederiksen)
10. Re: Help Me!! Minimum adapter plate size for Metro (Jeff Shanab)
11. Re: GM should sell Volt (Lee Hart)
12. Race day (Brian D. Hall)
13. Re: BBB Photos (tehben)
14. Re: Electric cars from china (Steven **)
15. Re: Kelly Controller, does this make sense? (Josh Creel)
16. Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
17. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
(Morgan LaMoore)
18. Re: Electric cars from china (Ryan Stotts)
19. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
20. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
21. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
(Morgan LaMoore)
22. Re: GM should sell Volt (Dan Frederiksen)
23. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
24. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
(Roland Wiench)
25. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
26. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
27. Re: Race day ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
28. Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV today (M. Barkley)
29. Re: Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV today
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
30. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
31. Electric Dragin' 1/8 mile times have been posted. (EV Manny)
32. Re: GM should sell Volt ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
33. Re: Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
34. Re: Kelly Controller, does this make sense? (Rich Long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:04:24 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delta-Q Charger
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Brad wrote:
> I plugged in
> the charger. The 80% light flashed six times, paused,six more
> flashes,paused,and then finished with five flashes.
This indicates that it has alg #6 selected. Alg #6 is for the Deka 8G31 gels.
(The 5 flashes at the end is because it displays the alg ID only for a fixed
time, then goes to a 'DC under-voltage' indication without a battery attached;
it just happened to stop displaying the ID after not quite displaying it 3
times.)
> So that
> does not really match up with the codes you expected?
Not for an original equipment GEM charger, no. If your charger has alg #6,
then it is almost certainly *not* an OEM GEM charger, but rather a standard
production unit.
This is not necessarily bad news, since it would mean you have a wider choice
of battery options that the charger will work with. A standard charger would
have 10 algorithms programmed into it, including algorithms for flooded golf
cart batteries, group 31-ish floodeds, Optima/Orbital-ish AGMs, Deka 8G31 gels,
etc.
> I have the temp sensor . The charger output has red and black
> wires with ringed ends and green and white wires with
> fastons.
That is odd, since a standard charger would have the temperature sensor molded
into the battery lug on the black output wire and would not have a faston on
the white wire (the white wire would go directly into the black blob on the end
of the black wire).
> You are right about this not having serial comms
> hardware.
I suspect I am, but am unsure why you think so ;^>
You cannot tell by the appearance of the outside of the charger; the serial
comms interface is by connecting an optional USB dongle to the red and black
output leads of the charger.
> I am not concerned about changing the algorithm, I
> just want to know what it is.
Even without serial comms, you can change the algorithm selection, and you
probably should do so just to scroll through the set of installed algorithms to
figure out what you've really got and what your battery options are.
The Deka 8G31s are not inexpensive batteries, and alg #6 won't really do a
decent job with more economical flooded golf cart batteries that a
Forkenswift-like vehicle is likely to use.
With a standard charger, you can scroll from one alg selection to another by
briefly connecting a battery to the charger output while it is flashing the alg
ID on the 80% LED. The battery voltage must be in the range of 0.5-2.5V/cell,
so 18-90V for your 72V model. You need to apply the voltage for very nearly
1s, then remove it (too long or too short and the charger will ignore it and
not advance the selection). What I find easiest is to connect either the black
or red lead to the battery and tap the other while watching the charger
display. To time the 1s pulse, use the cadence of the flashing LED as a guide
(one on/off cycle is 1s). Apply battery voltage for 1-2s, then remove it and
wait. If the 80% LED doesn't switch to flashing a different value within about
5s, then your pulse was too long or too short, try again.
In this way you can scroll through from one alg to the next until finally
returning back to the alg that you started at. This will not have changed the
selected algorithm that the charger will use next time it is powered up. To
change the stored selection to something different from its present value,
scroll through the installed algorithms as described above until the desired ID
is being displayed. Now connect the battery again, but leave it connected
until you hear a relay click inside the charger and see current indicated on
the ammeter portion of the display (about 11-12s). The new selection has now
been stored in memory. You can now disconnect AC and then disconnect the
battery connections (this sequence will avoid any sparking as the battery
connection is interrupted).
If you actually do have a GEM charger, then the process for scrolling through
the algorithms is a little trickier than that described.
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 12:10:46 -0800
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt "batteries not included"
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Lee Hart wrote:
> A vehicle's exhaust system *is* specified by the EPA as part
> of the emission control system. So, there are serious
> restrictions on changing them. Basically, you have to leave
> them completely stock.
>
> But right now, a car's battery and BMS system (if any) are
> *not* specified by the EPA as part of the emission control
> system. So, manufacturers and customers are free to change
> whatever they like. The EPA doesn't care what batteries you
> put in any car, including a Prius.
I'm sorry Lee, but you are mistaken. I happen to know for a fact that even the
battery charger and battery management system on a plug-in hybrid is considered
to be part of the emissions control system and is thus subject to some truly
bizarre OBDII-type requirements. (We are working with the automotive OEMs.)
Cheers,
Roger.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:35:08 -0600
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Saabrina the Saab 900 Lives!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
A turn of the key today and the Saab came to life today!
I went out of the garage and up my inclined drive with the greatest of ease.
A quick trip through the subdivision gave me a glimpse into a few things and
there are issues I have to resolve. However I took the hill back up to my
house at 37 MPH (25mph zone) with no problem.
I have to resolve the automatic transmission minimum rotation speed, but it
appears to be happy in D1. I don't have anything but battery current to
monitor and that jumped briefly to 200 amps. There may be a voltage sag,
but I don't think it could be too great or the controller wouldn't have kept
working. I may be getting a false reading off my dash meter. It is lower
than the 150v no load I get with a dmm with the key in on (no motor
running). I really need to charge the batteries and may do so individually
with the smart charger and see how they act. Speedo, odometer all other
things working so far. Power brakes and Power steering working fine.
1 ev mile added to the odometer today!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Tray Material
> Yeah, context is everything...sorry I didn't catch that you were building
> a
> racer.
> Regardless, if it were me, I'd consider wood if space were available.
>
> On aluminum, John Wayland's got good advice and experience in this.
> I saw him pop a battery in 2006 in a race.
> That same night 2 other batteries were popped including one in Otmar's
> Orange "Poppy" Porsche and one in Dave Cloud's Geo, which unfortunately
> caused a fire and caused a lot of fire damage.
> The battery that Wayland popped was one of the ones near the dead center
> of
> the aluminum battery housing.
> And that is the spot you'd expect to get the hottest.
> What struck me was the lack of any cooling at all other than thru the
> thermal conduction of the aluminum shell.
> The batteries were all jammed together.
> This is not unusual.
> Many or most of us simply cram batteries together.
> And structurally, that's great.
> However, for the drag racer, you need more.
> John now has been air cooling his batteries between runs, and that's
> great.
> Better would be to sandwich 1/4" aluminum honeycomb material between
> batteries as well and to provide forced airflow between batteries. Maybe
> John's doing this now. I believe Berube indicated he isolates and cools
> all
> his batteries in a way similar.
> Now would be the time to consider this as you're building and sizing your
> box.
>
> -Myles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf
> Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 9:40 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Tray Material
>
> Maybe a good idea if I were back in 1921. For the racing vehicle
> aluminum would be best.
>
> : )
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2008, at 9:27 AM, Myles Twete wrote:
>
>> 1921 Milburn Light Electric
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 14:21:06 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt "batteries not included"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Is there not a minimum number of vehicle manufacture rule, where they are
not subject to the same standards of a standard production vehicle?
My first vehicle I purchase way back in the 50's, you can purchase half the
vehicle from the dealer and the rest of the equipment if you want to from
the dealers parts counter for half the cost or even from another vender.
You took home the vehicle in a box and assembly it yourself. Now the Ford
GT-40 had a minimum of 300 production cars, before it was allow on the track
as a production sports car. If a vehicle was less than 300 units, then it
was not subject to a lot of rules.
In 1973, I purchase a vehicle run number of 53. When you tilted the rear
deck to see the engine, and you can see the engine. There is only three
wires going to the engine, no vacuum hoses, no heater hoses, no fan belts,
no drive line, no nothing.
Back in those days, when we order a car, you specified what type of engine,
what the engine was made out of, type of cam, type of clutch, transmissions,
suspensions systems, wheels which could be aluminum, steel, wire wheels,
types of steering meaning wide or close ratio, fuel systems as fuel
injection or carb, steering wheels types, one or two or three pad brake
disks, how many gallon gas tank you want, type of gas filler and the list
goes on.
You actually design the vehicle the way you want to. Many guys in those
days would buy a standard outfitted vehicle and then would transfer all the
special custom equipment from there old vehicle (a year old) to the new
vehicle.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt "batteries not included"
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
>
> > A vehicle's exhaust system *is* specified by the EPA as part
> > of the emission control system. So, there are serious
> > restrictions on changing them. Basically, you have to leave
> > them completely stock.
> >
> > But right now, a car's battery and BMS system (if any) are
> > *not* specified by the EPA as part of the emission control
> > system. So, manufacturers and customers are free to change
> > whatever they like. The EPA doesn't care what batteries you
> > put in any car, including a Prius.
>
> I'm sorry Lee, but you are mistaken. I happen to know for a fact that
> even the battery charger and battery management system on a plug-in hybrid
> is considered to be part of the emissions control system and is thus
> subject to some truly bizarre OBDII-type requirements. (We are working
> with the automotive OEMs.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:27:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Tray Material
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I missed the fact that it was for the Pinto also (cool project BTW). 1/4"
aluminum "diamond" plate is very stiff and might work well in this application.
----- Original Message ----
From: Myles Twete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Tray Material
Yeah,
context
is
everything...sorry
I
didn't
catch
that
you
were
building
a
racer.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:32:26 -0500
From: Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kelly Controller, does this make sense?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
Rick Beebe wrote:
> > Belktronix.
>
> He seems to be the little-known underdog around here. How do you like
> his controller?
I've got his complete EV "system" of potbox, controller, charger, DC/Dc
converter, battery managers, and assorted support units. It's a new
product and it's been a long haul working out the bugs. But it's up and
running now and I'm breaking in the batteries and brushes and what not.
I think it's going to be a good system.
Rich
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 16:42:40 -0500
From: Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Tray Material
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Is "diamond plate" aluminum cheaper or easier to find than smooth plate?
If you want the most stiffness, all aluminum alloys have the same stiffness (
within a couple of per cent). If it's strength you're looking for, I would
choose a high strength alloy like 6061-T6. It is generally pretty easy to
find, especially as plate.
Also, 1/4 inch plate would be pretty expensive and heavy. Maybe 1/8 inch
plate, with some stiffeners across the bottom (as Lee suggested) would work
well also.
Phil Marino
> Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:27:33 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Tray Material
>
> I missed the fact that it was for the Pinto also (cool project BTW). 1/4"
> aluminum "diamond" plate is very stiff and might work well in this
> application.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Myles Twete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Tray Material
>
>
> Yeah,
> context
> is
> everything...sorry
> I
> didn't
> catch
> that
> you
> were
> building
> a
> racer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 13:42:18 -0800
From: "EV Manny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Saabrina the Saab 900 Lives!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Congratulations Mark!
On 2/9/08, Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A turn of the key today and the Saab came to life today!
>
> I went out of the garage and up my inclined drive with the greatest of ease.
> A quick trip through the subdivision gave me a glimpse into a few things and
> there are issues I have to resolve. However I took the hill back up to my
> house at 37 MPH (25mph zone) with no problem.
>
> I have to resolve the automatic transmission minimum rotation speed, but it
> appears to be happy in D1. I don't have anything but battery current to
> monitor and that jumped briefly to 200 amps. There may be a voltage sag,
> but I don't think it could be too great or the controller wouldn't have kept
> working. I may be getting a false reading off my dash meter. It is lower
> than the 150v no load I get with a dmm with the key in on (no motor
> running). I really need to charge the batteries and may do so individually
> with the smart charger and see how they act. Speedo, odometer all other
> things working so far. Power brakes and Power steering working fine.
>
> 1 ev mile added to the odometer today!
>
> Mark Ward
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
--
Manny
http://evalbum.com/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:49:21 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] RE : spark EV
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Chuck Homic wrote:
> I came up with a 1200 lb vehicle, 18ft^2 * 0.35Cd drag, and 2000lbs of
> lead acid with peukert 1.05. Gets 110 miles at 40mph. This is not
> exactly "wow that's easy" but it exists on the edge of the envelope of
> "plausible" I suppose.
>
the claim is not lead acid. it's lithium.
and as for a need for someone to go there, I wouldn't hold my breath.
ask for photos of the car first. I don't think you'll get any.
munchhausen syndrome is perhaps fitting. that's the impression I get. it
could in theory pan out but it's very peculiar behavior for someone on
the level. he doesn't have an office he has corporate headquarters...
and he's willing to lend the car out to just anyone for weeks but can't
be bothered to show photos of the car...
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:28:24 -0800
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Help Me!! Minimum adapter plate size for Metro
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Not sure if this helps, but here is the drawing of the plate I used for
a 1987 300zx. This was a v6 with a decent 14"? clutch so I am pretty
sure yours could be smaller.
The plate is not 2" thick because of my design, it used a bell for the
motor to get the backset. The plate was oversized to add torque
surpression to body
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00056.jpg
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00037.jpg
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00071.jpg
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/dsc00073.jpg
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/Z31_non-turbo-pattern.jpg
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 16:40:09 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I'm sorry Lee, but you are mistaken. I happen to know for a fact
> that even the battery charger and battery management system on a
> plug-in hybrid is considered to be part of the emissions control
> system and is thus subject to some truly bizarre OBDII-type
> requirements. (We are working with the automotive OEMs.)
That's bizarre, and more than a little scary! The battery, and even the
charger? Is this just regulatory zeal run amok? What great benefit to society
will be achieve by regulating the "air pollution" from a battery or battery
charger? Especially when *no* such vehicles are in production?
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart-at-earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 22:54:09 +0000
From: "Brian D. Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Race day
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
We are going out to Infineon* , *Raceway on 2/18 , anyone close by should
come by and race with us.
snip'
Bracket Drag Racing
*WHAT:*
Infineon Raceway will host a series of 12 events for the Summit ET Bracket
Drag Racing Series in 2008.
*WHEN:*
January 5, January 26 (Martin Luther King Holiday), February 18 (Presidents'
Day), March 22, May 26 (Memorial Day), June 7 (MOPAR Bracket Drags), June 8,
July 4 (Independence Day), July 20, September 7, November 16, November 30.
*WHERE:*
Infineon Raceway, Highways 37 and 121, Sonoma, Calif., 95476.
*CATEGORIES:*
High School, Trophy, Motorcycle, Super Pro, Pro and Sportsman.
*RULES & REGULATIONS:*
For a complete listing of all the Rules and Regulations
<http://www.infineonraceway.com/documents/BracketRules06.pdf>for Summit ET
Bracket Drag Racing, click here
<http://www.infineonraceway.com/documents/BracketRules06.pdf>.
*PURSE:*
Super Pro: $1,000 winner, $500 runner-up, $125 semifinalist. Pro: $800
winner, $400 runner-up, $125 semifinalist. Sportsman: $300 winner, $150
runner-up, $75 semifinalist. Motorcycle: $250 winner, $150 runner-up, $75
semifinalist. Trophy: compete for trophies only. High School: compete for
trophies only.
*ADMISSION:*
Gates open at 8 a.m. for each event, with racing spanning from 8:30 a.m.-5
p.m. Cost for spectators is $15, while cost for competitors is as follows:
High School ($20) and Trophy ($25); Sportsman or Motorcycle ($40); Pro or
Super Pro ($60).
*MORE INFO:*
Call 800-870-RACE, extension 115 (Georgia Seipel)
*POINTS:*
Click here<http://www.infineonraceway.com/documents/finalinfineonpoints1.pdf>for
the FINAL Summit ET Bracket Drags Points as of Sept. 4, 2007.
--
Brian D. HAll
Thunderstruck-ev.com
3200 Dutton Ave #319
Santa Rosa, Ca 95407
707-575-0353 voice
707-544-5304 fax
--
Brian D. HAll
Thunderstruck-ev.com
3200 Dutton Ave #319
Santa Rosa, Ca 95407
707-575-0353 voice
707-544-5304 fax
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 14:57:44 -0900
From: tehben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] BBB Photos
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I didn't get any hard material but here is the link to their website:
www.vectrix.com
and the dealer info:
http://www.vectrix.com/Portal/1/Language/47/Page/85/Dealers.aspx
The day I was there the monster garage car did do a couple runs down the strip.
--
Tehben
'90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
'hElix EV'
Website: www.helixev.com
evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
On Feb 8, 2008 7:53 PM, Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Nice photo's. I'm so jealous. Stuck here in 10 below temps ;-P
>
> Did the Monster Garage Chevy run any races?
>
> Did you get dealer info from the Vectrix folks?
>
> Mike
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of tehben
> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 5:57 PM
> > To: EV mail list
> > Subject: [EVDL] BBB Photos
> >
> > Hey all,
> > I was in Florida the end of Jan and stopped by the Battery Beach
> > Burnout. It was a lot of fun and I got to test drive Vectrix Maxi
> > scooter which was absolutely AMAZING! I also took a lot of pictures
> > and posted them on my site, here is a link: www.helixev.com
> >
> > Enjoy
> > --
> > Tehben
> > '90 Toyota 4x4 Pickup
> > 'hElix EV'
> > Website: www.helixev.com
> > evalbum: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1225
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 18:16:26 -0600
From: "Steven **" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric cars from china
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
It's on their "About Us" page. They changed to Spark-EV after they
decided Flybo was crap and didn't want to be associated with them.
-Steven
On Feb 9, 2008 11:51 AM, Willie McKemie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I seem to recall that Spark-EV said (posted somewhere on their website)
> that they had been buying from Flybo and then discovered that Flybo was
> a middleman with considerable mark-up. And that Spark-EV went to
> Flybo's source.
>
> --
> Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
> http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
> Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 56 days 6 hours 48 minutes
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:44:19 -0500
From: "Josh Creel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kelly Controller, does this make sense?
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Do you think the battery managers will work on my S-10 with the flooded 6v
batteries? I'm planning on running 120v pack. How long did it take to get
the control system when you ordered it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kelly Controller, does this make sense?
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:48:55 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
OK.....
Gas has an energy storage in btu's of 114100 per gallon.....
electricity has an energy storage of 3400 btu's per killowatt hour....
So I need 33.56 killowatt hrs of electricity to equal the energy in a gallon of
gas. (114100/3400)
Well if an ICE system is 15% efficient at converting this 114100 btu of energy
into motion. (114100x0.15=17115) and an electric car has an efficiency of 80%
(114100x0.80=91280)then you would need 5.33 times as much gas to get the same
motive force (91280/17115=5.33).
So in effect 5.33 gallons of gas is equivalent to 33.56 kw hrs of electricity
in terms of motive force....or 6.29 kw hrs is equal to one gallon of gas in
useable motive force.
If I have a 3000 lb car that gets 30 mpg on gas it would go 30 miles on one
gallon, or 30 miles on 6.29 kw hrs of electricity.
So if I have a 1500 lb car it would go 30 miles on 3.15 kw hrs
_____________________________________________________________
Click for an accredited Life Experience Degree in 5 days, make up to $150k.
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------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:18:36 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
You can't assume that a car with half the weight uses half the energy.
When driving down the freeway, most of the energy goes to air drag,
which isn't affected by weight.
The 30 miles on 6.29 kWh is 210 Wh/mile, which is spot-on (most
conversions get 150-300 Wh/mile). Your other number, 30 miles on
3.15kWh, is 105 Wh/mile. Most EV conversions aren't this efficient.
In comparison, a gasser with 30 mpg gets 1100 Wh/mile (33kWh/30miles),
far worse than even the biggest, least aerodynamic EVs.
Also, it's possible to make far more efficient vehicles. For example,
my school's solar car uses under 35 Wh/mile at 55mph. I know solar
cars aren't at all practical, but if you got rid of the big,
expensive, fragile solar array, you could improve the aerodynamics and
use the same lightweight, strong construction techniques with 10 or 20
kWh of Lithium to make a far more efficient, long-range vehicle.
Of course, this vehicle still isn't practical; it's a one-off project
for a rich sponsor.
-Morgan LaMoore
On Sat, Feb 9, 2008 at 6:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK.....
>
> Gas has an energy storage in btu's of 114100 per gallon.....
>
> electricity has an energy storage of 3400 btu's per killowatt hour....
>
> So I need 33.56 killowatt hrs of electricity to equal the energy in a gallon
> of gas. (114100/3400)
>
> Well if an ICE system is 15% efficient at converting this 114100 btu of
> energy into motion. (114100x0.15=17115) and an electric car has an efficiency
> of 80% (114100x0.80=91280)then you would need 5.33 times as much gas to get
> the same motive force (91280/17115=5.33).
>
> So in effect 5.33 gallons of gas is equivalent to 33.56 kw hrs of
> electricity in terms of motive force....or 6.29 kw hrs is equal to one gallon
> of gas in useable motive force.
>
> If I have a 3000 lb car that gets 30 mpg on gas it would go 30 miles on one
> gallon, or 30 miles on 6.29 kw hrs of electricity.
>
> So if I have a 1500 lb car it would go 30 miles on 3.15 kw hrs
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click for an accredited Life Experience Degree in 5 days, make up to $150k.
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4s3a15eDTnW732JyYFjdTe75qV7noWGj3I9lmzmEDMqzve6T/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 19:47:46 -0600
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric cars from china
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Check out the two cars on this page: http://www.motorfactories.com/prd-ev.html
I'll send you some info Dan I got from them a long time ago when I
enquired about their batteries.
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:48:51 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
You can't assume that a car with half the weight uses half the energy.
When driving down the freeway, most of the energy goes to air drag,
which isn't affected by weight.
Air drag is already accounted for in the 30mpg figure, and halving the weight
would affect road load, but the aero drag losses would be the same...
The 30 miles on 6.29 kWh is 210 Wh/mile, which is spot-on (most
conversions get 150-300 Wh/mile). Your other number, 30 miles on
3.15kWh, is 105 Wh/mile. Most EV conversions aren't this efficient.
most of them are not this light...
In comparison, a gasser with 30 mpg gets 1100 Wh/mile (33kWh/30miles),
far worse than even the biggest, least aerodynamic EVs.
and this is because the electric is more efficient than ice as stated...
Also, it's possible to make far more efficient vehicles. For example,
my school's solar car uses under 35 Wh/mile at 55mph. I know solar
cars aren't at all practical, but if you got rid of the big,
expensive, fragile solar array, you could improve the aerodynamics and
use the same lightweight, strong construction techniques with 10 or 20
kWh of Lithium to make a far more efficient, long-range vehicle.
we are in agreement then, lighter cars with better aerodynamics are more
efficient.....
Of course, this vehicle still isn't practical; it's a one-off project
for a rich sponsor.
But a lithium battery, kitcar based project would be in the 1500 lb
range....even with the driver, as was the Sunrise (and will be).
-Morgan LaMoore
On Sat, Feb 9, 2008 at 6:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK.....
>
> Gas has an energy storage in btu's of 114100 per gallon.....
>
> electricity has an energy storage of 3400 btu's per killowatt hour....
>
> So I need 33.56 killowatt hrs of electricity to equal the energy in a gallon
> of gas. (114100/3400)
>
> Well if an ICE system is 15% efficient at converting this 114100 btu of
> energy into motion. (114100x0.15=17115) and an electric car has an efficiency
> of 80% (114100x0.80=91280)then you would need 5.33 times as much gas to get
> the same motive force (91280/17115=5.33).
>
> So in effect 5.33 gallons of gas is equivalent to 33.56 kw hrs of
> electricity in terms of motive force....or 6.29 kw hrs is equal to one gallon
> of gas in useable motive force.
>
> If I have a 3000 lb car that gets 30 mpg on gas it would go 30 miles on one
> gallon, or 30 miles on 6.29 kw hrs of electricity.
>
> So if I have a 1500 lb car it would go 30 miles on 3.15 kw hrs
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click for an accredited Life Experience Degree in 5 days, make up to $150k.
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4s3a15eDTnW732JyYFjdTe75qV7noWGj3I9lmzmEDMqzve6T/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_____________________________________________________________
Amazing Chinese Weight Loss Secret
No surgery necessary! 2007 diet of the year!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/JKFkuJkEDz6j1tj1OpFoFEKuZ3dw7g9y7hUOa9tRsXJ2pD9BZ773d1/
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 03:16:09 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Any idea how I can adjust my calculations to account for this?
"You can't assume that a car with half the weight uses half the energy.
When driving down the freeway, most of the energy goes to air drag,
which isn't affected by weight."
_____________________________________________________________
Find the best Gourmet Gifts. Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tHT9nEmQKkSoQ4QKQo4PYOMqUVFP4PSOTanmE9spmHMsV8z/
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 21:48:12 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Sat, Feb 9, 2008 at 9:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Any idea how I can adjust my calculations to account for this?
You can separately account for energy used in drag and friction.
Friction is easy: take the weight of the vehicle and multiply by the
coefficient of rolling resistance.
For aero drag, you can use the equation from Physics I: F=0.5*Cd*A*rho*v^2
Multiply by speed to get the power, and divide by speed to get the
energy per mile. That just helps understand the process; you can skip
these steps, of course :-)
So the final calculation works out to:
energy/mile (in Wh/mile) = 1.99*m*Crr+0.00539*Cd*A*v^2
where the variables are:
m = mass (in pounds)
Crr = coefficient of rolling resistance (usually 0.01 to 0.03,
increase to simulate going up hill)
Cd = coefficient of drag (usually 0.2 to 0.6 for cars)
A = frontal area (in square feet; sometimes you will find a "CdA"
which is the two quantities already multiplied together)
v = velocity (in mph)
An example of this for a Toyota MR2:
m = 2400 pounds
Crr = 0.02 (this is just a rough fudge factor; it will vary with the
tires used and their alignment)
Cd*A = 5.8 ft^2
v = 55 mph
energy = 190 Wh/mile
This is the mechanical energy needed; you then have to factor in all
of the inefficiencies in your drive train, motor, controller, and
batteries to get the electrical energy required.
This is all just educated guesses at best; your actual car could be
quite a bit worse if you have two bits rubbing together where they
shouldn't. Also, Crr will depend on the tires used, their pressure,
and alignment, and it could be artificially increased due to friction
in the drive system. Also, the Cd you use will probably be from the
manufacturer of the vehicle, so it may be inaccurate.
Also, this is only accounting for the mechanical energy used to
cruise. You have to add in stray background loads (contactor coils,
controller housekeeping, lights, etc. may be a few hundred watts no
matter what), and you also have to leave energy for accelerating
(giving the car kinetic energy); this is where weight reductions
really shine, because half the weight does mean that roughly half the
energy will be used in acceleration.
I've got a spreadsheet for my planned EV that takes as much of this
into account and gives me estimated ranges based on different battery
choices. I'm not counting on it to be at all accurate (I made up
values for Cd and Crr that are hopefully conservative); I'm just using
it as a rough guide.
Or you could go with the far simpler route and just look for similar
cars in the EV Album.
-Morgan LaMoore
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 02:27:55 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt
To: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion
List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Lee Hart wrote:
> But it's too expensive, and doesn't have a proven track record. If GM used
> them, the Volt would be very expensive, and warranty costs are totally
> unpredictable.
>
have you become afraid of change Lee. if LiFePO4 is too expensive then
it'll never happen. my guess is it doesn't cost anything significant to
make. GM certainly wont be buying dewalt packs to get the cells. Lutz
said 30k$ iirc which should leave plenty of room for 6k$ worth of cells
in the little jock compact.
if it was that expensive I wouldn't expect them to only use half the
capacity.
I'm more concerned with the design hurting it
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 04:02:41 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
My goal here is to find the break even point where an electric car matches the
range and performance of a similarly equipped gas car...The difference in
efficiency between gas and electric motors gets us close, and through some
lightweighting I think we can get the rest of the way...now that we have
lithiums we can match the storage for about the same weight as the removed ice
components....
That leaves battery cost as the only obstacle, and becasue of the lighter
vehicle a smaller pack will be required to do so...
I am really hoping to get a method that doesn't require a new calculation for
every vehicle...more of a general solution.
_____________________________________________________________
Visa, MasterCard, AMEX & Discover. Compare Offers & Apply Online. Click
here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4txfrfiVM7ifRFHEmgRpon4Tz00MSCKfnQ83zFeIGVdy8lQ7/
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 21:48:09 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
To see the electric vehicle calculations by Uve, see:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/lab/8679/evcalc.html
then page all the way down where you see the words in blue background "click
here" and click it.
This will give you all the formulas that make up this page.
There is a latter Uve site at:
http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EvCalculator.html
You can input your different weights and data to see what happens. You can
page all the way down, and input data for low voltage systems.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for me.....
> Any idea how I can adjust my calculations to account for this?
>
>
> "You can't assume that a car with half the weight uses half the energy.
> When driving down the freeway, most of the energy goes to air drag,
> which isn't affected by weight."
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Find the best Gourmet Gifts. Click here.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tHT9nEmQKkSoQ4QKQo4PYOMqUVFP4PSOTanmE9spmHMsV8z/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 14:59:38 -0700 (MST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Your 30 miles on 3.15kwh is unrealistic and doesn't match the performance
of any real world EV capable of highway speeds (that I'm aware of).
The average is about 8.5 kwh for 30 miles.
Electric MOTORs (not cars) have an efficiency of around 80%-90%
Factor in the efficiency of the battery (around 75%) and the charger
(~80%) and you have an efficiency of approx 50%.
Of course that ignores the efficiency of whatever you use to generate the
electricity, but then again we are also ignoring the efficiency of
refining the gas.
> OK.....
>
> Gas has an energy storage in btu's of 114100 per gallon.....
>
> electricity has an energy storage of 3400 btu's per killowatt hour....
>
> So I need 33.56 killowatt hrs of electricity to equal the energy in a
> gallon of gas. (114100/3400)
>
> Well if an ICE system is 15% efficient at converting this 114100 btu of
> energy into motion. (114100x0.15=17115) and an electric car has an
> efficiency of 80% (114100x0.80=91280)then you would need 5.33 times as
> much gas to get the same motive force (91280/17115=5.33).
>
> So in effect 5.33 gallons of gas is equivalent to 33.56 kw hrs of
> electricity in terms of motive force....or 6.29 kw hrs is equal to one
> gallon of gas in useable motive force.
>
> If I have a 3000 lb car that gets 30 mpg on gas it would go 30 miles on
> one gallon, or 30 miles on 6.29 kw hrs of electricity.
>
> So if I have a 1500 lb car it would go 30 miles on 3.15 kw hrs
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click for an accredited Life Experience Degree in 5 days, make up to
> $150k.
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4s3a15eDTnW732JyYFjdTe75qV7noWGj3I9lmzmEDMqzve6T/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 15:04:02 -0700 (MST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Roughly speaking, for the average EV, it requires about 10kwh (from the
outlet) to go as far as a similar ICE goes on 1 gallon of gas.
Of course that assumes lead-acid batteries. LiIon/LiPol is lighter (which
would require somewhat less energy), but I don't think they are as
efficient as lead-acid (I haven't checked with recent batteries, because
my pockets aren't that deep)
> My goal here is to find the break even point where an electric car matches
> the range and performance of a similarly equipped gas car...The difference
> in efficiency between gas and electric motors gets us close, and through
> some lightweighting I think we can get the rest of the way...now that we
> have lithiums we can match the storage for about the same weight as the
> removed ice components....
>
> That leaves battery cost as the only obstacle, and becasue of the lighter
> vehicle a smaller pack will be required to do so...
>
> I am really hoping to get a method that doesn't require a new calculation
> for every vehicle...more of a general solution.
> _____________________________________________________________
> Visa, MasterCard, AMEX & Discover. Compare Offers & Apply Online.
> Click here!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4txfrfiVM7ifRFHEmgRpon4Tz00MSCKfnQ83zFeIGVdy8lQ7/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 23:32:23 EST
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Race day
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 2/9/2008 3:55:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> ace day
> Date:2/9/2008 3:55:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> We are going out to Infineon* , *Raceway on 2/18 , anyone close by should
> come by and race with us.
>
> snip'
>
> Bracket Drag Racing
>
> *WHAT:*
> Infineon Raceway will host a series of 12 events for the Summit ET Bracket
> Drag Racing Series in 2008.
>
> *WHEN:*
> January 5, January 26 (Martin Luther King Holiday), February 18 (Presidents'
> Day), March 22, May 26 (Memorial Day), June 7 (MOPAR Bracket Drags), June 8,
> July 4 (Independence Day), July 20, September 7, November 16, November 30.
>
> *WHERE:*
> Infineon Raceway, Highways 37 and 121, Sonoma, Calif., 95476.
>
> *CATEGORIES:*
> High School, Trophy, Motorcycle, Super Pro, Pro and Sportsman.
>
> *RULES ®ULATIONS:*
> For a complete listing of all the Rules and Regulations
> <http://www.infineonraceway.com/documents/BracketRules06.pdf>for Summit ET
> Bracket Drag Racing, click here
> <http://www.infineonraceway.com/documents/BracketRules06.pdf>.
>
> *PURSE:*
> Super Pro: $1,000 winner, $500 runner-up, $125 semifinalist. Pro: $800
> winner, $400 runner-up, $125 semifinalist. Sportsman: $300 winner, $150
> runner-up, $75 semifinalist. Motorcycle: $250 winner, $150 runner-up, $75
> semifinalist. Trophy: compete for trophies only. High School: compete for
> trophies only.
>
> *ADMISSION:*
> Gates open at 8 a.m. for each event, with racing spanning from 8:30 a.m.-5
> p.m. Cost for spectators is $15, while cost for competitors is as follows:
> High School ($20) and Trophy ($25); Sportsman or Motorcycle ($40); Pro or
> Super Pro ($60).
>
> *MORE INFO:*
> Call 800-870-RACE, extension 115 (Georgia Seipel)
>
> *POINTS:*
> Click here<http://www.infineonraceway.com/documents/finalinfineonpoints1.pdf>
> for
> the FINAL Summit ET Bracket Drags Points as of Sept. 4, 2007.
>
>
> --
> Brian D. HAll
> Thunderstruck-ev.com
> 3200 Dutton Ave #319
> Santa Rosa, Ca 95407
> 707-575-0353 voice
> 707-544-5304 fax
>
> --
> Brian D. HAll
> Thunderstruck-ev.com
> 3200 Dutton Ave #319
> Santa Rosa, Ca 95407
> 707-575-0353 voice
> 707-544-5304 fax
It would be great to get a couple of evs bracket racing in div.7.I will have
my 1st Summit bracket race next Sunday also.Its at Firebird raceway where I
will be a Super pro team member this year. I had the CE out at Speedworld
today setting it up for next weekend. I will be dialing the car at 11.97 where
it
ran today. At 11.97 it ran 133mph with over 40mph increase in the final 1/8
most of which happened at 1200feet to 1320. It will be a hard car to race
against this year using the Altair Nanosafe batteries. We were gaining 1 or 2
degrees per run starting at 47F.So a recap 5- 11.9second passes and 5 -8.00
second
flat passes.(dialing in different portions of the track)
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 21:05:13 -0800 (PST)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV today
To: "EVDL.ORG EVDL.org" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Today was like being a kid with a new toy. I test
drove the LionEV, 2008 Electric Ford Ranger in Plano,
Texas today.
Posted a few photos at:
www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/sets/72157603878614422/
I'll post a couple of short video clips up on
Yahoo/Video shortly. Just yahoo for LIONEV under the
video tab, the videos should appear once they've been
rendered by Yahoo.
I also learned that if you buy an all electric vehicle
in the state of Oklahoma before the end of 2008, you
can clain the entire cost of the vehicle on your state
income taxes. Blows my mind, you can't legally build
an EV over 80vdc in Oklahoma without taking a state
run EV course, but they will give you full credit of
the purchase price on a new all electric vehicle.
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 22:34:11 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV
today
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
<<<< Today was like being a kid with a new toy. I test
drove the LionEV, 2008 Electric Ford Ranger in Plano,
Texas today.
Posted a few photos at:
www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/sets/72157603878614422/ >>>>
What kind of range and top speed does the LiIon version have?
Hopefully it weighs less than the 4700lbs of the OEM. Saw the pictures
and thought "I drove a 2000 Electric Ford Ranger to Costco today and
charged it while I shopped" -- doubt you had the Avcon inlet, but
hopefully there's more than the 120V plug under the fuel door.
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 23:25:07 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Why? Are you trying to justify the use of gas over electric?
Pete : )
On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My goal here is to find the break even point where an electric car
> matches the range and performance of a similarly equipped gas car...
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 23:32:27 -0800
From: "EV Manny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Dragin' 1/8 mile times have been posted.
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
http://www.ElectricDragin.com
--
Manny
http://evalbum.com/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 32
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 23:54:21 -0800
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-----Original Message-----
>> A123/LiFePO4 is enough of a "superbattery" for now.
>But it's too expensive, and doesn't have a proven track record. If GM used
them, the Volt would be very expensive, and warranty costs are totally
unpredictable.
Kind of too late to protest because GM has committed to using LifePO4 (in
addition to lithium manganese) on the Volt.
> GM doesn't have the money to subsidize it. If the Volt is too expensive,
or needs subsidies to sell, GM won't build it.
The Volt will be more expensive than they want it to be, but GM is too
deeply committed now to back off. They are going to throw it onto the
market and hope that the early adopters will be willing to eat the extra
costs. The entire industry is rushing forward with lithium. To whatever
extent lithium battery costs will go down due to scale, we are going to see
this take place in the next 3-5 years. Manufacturing is already starting to
bloom, like this recent story:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/lithium-ion_battery_factory.php
The only wildcard I see here is the BYD with the Super Iron battery. I'm
very curious to see how that technology compares.
------------------------------
Message: 33
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:07:31 GMT
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gas vs electric efficiency.....chew it up for
me.....
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
No, Wuite the opposite....there is a point where it is possible for EV's to
compete on cost with gas cars. WHile the holy grail seems to be small commuter
cars like the geo metro, chevy aveo, or toyota yaris...the lithium batteries
price cars out of this market. But the sportscar class, like the Audi TT,
Nissan 350Z, BMW Z3 are in a different price range that can better absorb the
cost of the lithium batteries....withiut going into the swupercar class where
the tesla, t-zero, and venturi fetish like to tread...
rying to justify that window of opportunity...find the upper and lower limits...
Why? Are you trying to justify the use of gas over electric?
Pete : )
_____________________________________________________________
Click now to save up to 80% off of cork flooring.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4uCvswtdIGwIyVZG2aehXVW0eldRm2Cgo8BRjqePsb1eDhRF/
------------------------------
Message: 34
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:21:37 -0500
From: Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Kelly Controller, does this make sense?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
Josh Creel wrote:
> Do you think the battery managers will work on my S-10 with the flooded 6v
> batteries? I'm planning on running 120v pack. How long did it take to get
> the control system when you ordered it?
The Belktronix control system is designed for AGM and gel 12v batteries.
But I'm guessing you could pair up the 6v floodeds and keep them
balanced without equalization charges.
It took 2 months to deliver my system. Bryan is a one man operation.
Rich
------------------------------
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End of EV Digest, Vol 7, Issue 16
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