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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV today
(Tom Parker)
2. Re: Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV today
(Dan Frederiksen)
3. Alltrax vs. Kelly (JRP3)
4. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (M. Barkley)
5. Re: Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV today
(M. Barkley)
6. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (EVDL Administrator)
7. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (JRP3)
8. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (M. Barkley)
9. Conversion candidates. Subaru 360s. (Lawrence Rhodes)
10. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (M. Barkley)
11. Re: Electric Dragin' 1/8 mile times have been posted.
(John Wayland)
12. Saabrina video & pics posted (Mark Ward)
13. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (JRP3)
14. Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
15. Re: GM should sell Volt (Lee Hart)
16. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (damon henry)
17. Re: Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM? (damon henry)
18. Re: GM should sell Volt "batteries not included" (Lee Hart)
19. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (fsabolich)
20. Re: Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM? (Lee Hart)
21. Re: Delta-Q Charger (Brad Lindberg)
22. Re: Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
23. Re: Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM? (Bill & Nancy)
24. Re: Alltrax vs. Kelly (Mitch or Terri)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:53:15 +1300
From: Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV
today
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sat, 2008-02-09 at 21:05 -0800, M. Barkley wrote:
> Today was like being a kid with a new toy. I test
> drove the LionEV, 2008 Electric Ford Ranger in Plano,
> Texas today.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/2253345737/in/set-72157603878614422/
It appears that the power steering pump is driven off the tailshaft. How
well does this work? Do you have to idle the motor to get assist, or do
they have a reservoir? If you're tempted to idle it in neutral, is there
a speed limiter or other mechanism to prevent you blowing up the motor
by mistake?
Were you able to test the range?
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:02:57 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV
today
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
M. Barkley wrote:
> Today was like being a kid with a new toy. I test
> drove the LionEV, 2008 Electric Ford Ranger in Plano,
> Texas today.
>
it looks like 24v performance. why is that?
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:08:37 -0800 (PST)
From: JRP3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I see Kelly requires a DC/DC converter for their controller but see no
mention of that requirement for Alltrax. Is that correct? The DC/DC listed
would add $100.00 to the cost of the Kelly, unless there is a cheaper one
available. I was considering the Kelly KD48400, ($289)or maybe the KD72400,
($389), for possible future upgrade to 72 volts. However I can get an
Alltrax NPX 4844 for $290 new, even less used. I realize it's non
programmable but I don't know if I really need that feature. Thoughts?
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Alltrax-vs.-Kelly-tp15396716p15396716.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:39:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
A fellow member in the www.nteaa.org club is running a
72volt(84volt max)600amp Kelly Controller without a
DC/DC converter. But I still like my Alltrax 7245
controller with the ability to monitor live data
output from a laptop.
His website:
http://galaxy22.dyndns.org/ev-talon/
M.Barkley
www.texomaev.com
www.nteaa.org
www.flickr.com/mbarkley
--- JRP3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I see Kelly requires a DC/DC converter for their
> controller but see no
> mention of that requirement for Alltrax. Is that
> correct? The DC/DC listed
> would add $100.00 to the cost of the Kelly, unless
> there is a cheaper one
> available. I was considering the Kelly KD48400,
> ($289)or maybe the KD72400,
> ($389), for possible future upgrade to 72 volts.
> However I can get an
> Alltrax NPX 4844 for $290 new, even less used. I
> realize it's non
> programmable but I don't know if I really need that
> feature. Thoughts?
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://www.nabble.com/Alltrax-vs.-Kelly-tp15396716p15396716.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:30:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Drove a 2008 Electric Ford Ranger from LionEV
today
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I personally didn't have any problems with steering.
This was the first day of the Ranger being in Texas,
the dealer hasn't had a chance to drive it himself
much. The response to it was tremendous while I was
there. If this keeps up, he'll never get a chance to
plug it in, so the range will get tested in multiple
short runs.... lol
I'm now looking forward to seeing/driving the LiFePO4
Plugin Hybrid Escape he ordered for a demo unit.
--- Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-02-09 at 21:05 -0800, M. Barkley wrote:
> > Today was like being a kid with a new toy. I test
> > drove the LionEV, 2008 Electric Ford Ranger in
> Plano,
> > Texas today.
>
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/2253345737/in/set-72157603878614422/
>
> It appears that the power steering pump is driven
> off the tailshaft. How
> well does this work? Do you have to idle the motor
> to get assist, or do
> they have a reservoir? If you're tempted to idle it
> in neutral, is there
> a speed limiter or other mechanism to prevent you
> blowing up the motor
> by mistake?
>
> Were you able to test the range?
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:11:19 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Alltrax has a pretty good track record. They make good stuff and seem to
support it well. I have one of their controllers in my Elec-Trak tractor,
and have been satisfied with it.
FWIW, I understand that Alltrax are committed to manufacturing here in the
US and sourcing as many components as possible in the US. AFAIK, the Kelly
controllers are made in China. Of course views vary on this issue and it
may or may not affect your decision.
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:20:01 -0800 (PST)
From: JRP3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I see he's running a KD84600, maybe they don't have the DC/DC requirement? I
don't even see that controller listed on their website. Is he running the
full 72 volts to the controller then? I don't understand why they need the
reduced voltage for the controller.
M. Barkley wrote:
>
> A fellow member in the www.nteaa.org club is running a
> 72volt(84volt max)600amp Kelly Controller without a
> DC/DC converter. But I still like my Alltrax 7245
> controller with the ability to monitor live data
> output from a laptop.
>
> His website:
>
> http://galaxy22.dyndns.org/ev-talon/
>
>
> M.Barkley
> www.texomaev.com
> www.nteaa.org
> www.flickr.com/mbarkley
>
>
>
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Alltrax-vs.-Kelly-tp15396716p15397178.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:45:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I'll be glad when AllTrax builds a higher than 72vdc
controller for ONROAD use. I've heard rumors of such,
but so far, just rumors. Anyone with an inside scoop
on this rumor?
Granted, I'll have to get my EV Certification in
Oklahoma, before going above 80vdc. Maybe someday,
I'll get to take the EV course.
--- EVDL Administrator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alltrax has a pretty good track record. They make
> good stuff and seem to
> support it well. I have one of their controllers in
> my Elec-Trak tractor,
> and have been satisfied with it.
>
> FWIW, I understand that Alltrax are committed to
> manufacturing here in the
> US and sourcing as many components as possible in
> the US. AFAIK, the Kelly
> controllers are made in China. Of course views vary
> on this issue and it
> may or may not affect your decision.
>
> David Roden
> EVDL Administrator
> http://www.evdl.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:49:46 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Conversion candidates. Subaru 360s.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/561308631.html Small. Makes Blue Meanie
look like a Caddy. Lawrence Rhodes....
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 07:50:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "M. Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I'm going to assume they run the logic of the
controller from 12volts, and since every car has to
have some sort of 12 volts for auxillary systems, IE:
Lights, Radio, etc. that it shouldn't be a hard thing
to achieve. But you know what assuming can be, so I'd
email David and ask him, or Kelly Controllers for the
horses mouth perspective.
--- JRP3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I see he's running a KD84600, maybe they don't have
> the DC/DC requirement? I
> don't even see that controller listed on their
> website. Is he running the
> full 72 volts to the controller then? I don't
> understand why they need the
> reduced voltage for the controller.
>
>
> M. Barkley wrote:
> >
> > A fellow member in the www.nteaa.org club is
> running a
> > 72volt(84volt max)600amp Kelly Controller without
> a
> > DC/DC converter. But I still like my Alltrax 7245
> > controller with the ability to monitor live data
> > output from a laptop.
> >
> > His website:
> >
> > http://galaxy22.dyndns.org/ev-talon/
> >
> >
> > M.Barkley
> > www.texomaev.com
> > www.nteaa.org
> > www.flickr.com/mbarkley
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
>
http://www.nabble.com/Alltrax-vs.-Kelly-tp15396716p15397178.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:12:09 -0800
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Dragin' 1/8 mile times have been posted.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hello to All,
It's hard to write the following because good friends of mine were
involved in the making of 'Electric Dragin'. I think it's great that
they conceived and pulled off this race EVent, and wish I could have
taken White Zombie down to San Diego and raced with everyone. These are
very nice people with the best intentions, and they have supported and
attended our racing here in Portland, which was not only fun, but very
much appreciated. I'm sure there will be some that will interpret what
I'm about to write as being negative, but there are things that need to
be said and web posted claims that need to be set straight.
The ETs from races that happened half a month ago have finally been made
available! In drag racing, the most important info everyone is
interested in, are the ETs, and yet it took two l-o-n-g weeks to get to
see them. No track-side email reports, no info at the website, not even
a phone call to any of us waiting to hear results so 'we' could post
info. Instead, what we got almost instantly was a boring video of a
gasoline powered passionless Prius wheezing around some cones. Then, the
first drag racing videos of this highly touted racing EVent that came
through were of minimalist type NEVs lumbering down the track, with the
ET reader boards never zoomed-in on (probably a good thing).
Another aspect about this highly publicized race that bothers me (as one
of the driving forces behind the formation of NEDRA and the co-organizer
of our first races back in '97) is how the promoters of 'Electric
Dragin' are still billing their EVent as 'The 1st International
Exclusively Electric Drive Only EVent' in the world. This is not
accurate, we don't need to rewrite history, and this needs to be
corrected. 'Electric Dragin' was not the 1st international exclusively
electric drive only EVent in the world...the '97 Woodburn Electric Drags
were. Technically, the very first all electric drag races happened 14
years prior to the 'Electric Dragin' EVent, when the 'All Electric
Drags' were held in the Fall of '94 in Portland, Oregon, a race that
both myself and Roderick Wilde both entered and raced our electric drag
cars in. Additionally, 'Electric Dragin' was not exclusively electric
drive only as it was billed as being, as there were gas-powered hybrids
racing at this EVent. And one more thing...as to that 'international'
bit, the Woodburn and Bandimere races from about eight-nine years ago
attracted 'real' international attention with film crews, magazine
reporters, racers, and EV fans from all across the US, and from other
countries like Canada, Finland, Germany, England, and Japan. Subsequent
European television shows and high profile magazines like the German
'Der Spiegel', Wired, and the British car mag 'Top Gear' ran
international stories all about the pioneering new sport of electric
drag racing...this was indeed, international attention!
OK, with the above said, and with at last, some real numbers to see, I
found the stats interesting from the quickest ET posted by Michael
Kadie's EV. Though this was only a 1/8 mile run, by comparing his car's
results to White Zombie's time slip from the 2005 Woodburn races, we can
now clearly see that Michael's Cobra replica can do a mid 12 second 1/4
mile:
7.917 @ 85.53 mph was the 1/8 mile portion from White Zombie's 1/4 mile
run of 12.638 @ 102.43 mph set at Woodburn in 2005.
7.927 @ 85.16 mph is the Cobra replica's 1/8 mile that projects to a
12.6 1/4 mile.
Though this still falls more than a second short of 'crushing' White
Zombie (11.4 @ 114 mph) as Michael boasted he would do...sorry Michael,
I couldn't resist - it is still a terrific accomplishment. Both he and
Dennis Berube are to be congratulated...Dennis who's street legal lead
acid powered all steel electric pickup has actually run (at another
track) a 12.6 in the 1/4 mile with a time slip to back it up, and
Michael with his lithium powered composite sports car that has still not
officially run a 12-anything on a 1/4 mile track, but it's a machine
that anyone can see 'could' certainly do so - now with an 1/8 mile time
slip that backs that notion up soundly.
See Ya...John Wayland
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:21:41 -0600
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Saabrina video & pics posted
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I have some pictures and a video of yesterday's debut of my Saab EV at my
weblog.
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:22:01 -0800 (PST)
From: JRP3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The really confusing part, (for me at least), is they say the controller
requires an 18-40 volt supply, so I guess you couldn't even use your 12 DC
accessory converter? I'm building an off road 6 wheel ATV and I don't plan
on using a DC/DC so it would be an unneeded expense in my situation.
M. Barkley wrote:
>
> I'm going to assume they run the logic of the
> controller from 12volts, and since every car has to
> have some sort of 12 volts for auxillary systems, IE:
> Lights, Radio, etc. that it shouldn't be a hard thing
> to achieve. But you know what assuming can be, so I'd
> email David and ask him, or Kelly Controllers for the
> horses mouth perspective.
>
>
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Alltrax-vs.-Kelly-tp15396716p15397878.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:56:36 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hello Group!
I have just purchased a New [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motors ES31C Motor and a new 94C
Duster
Comet CVT system for a project I am building. I want to tune the
clutch for the appropriate engagement RPMs to get the maximum efficient
use of the motor, and still allow it to spin fast enough to cool
itself. Neither the Manufacturer nor the Reseller will release accurate
torque curves nor any real Horsepower versus voltage and current
graphs. THIS IS NUTS! You have to purchase electric motors from [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
Motors, not having any real data on the capabilities of the motor.
ANYWAY, can anyone give me any information on the ES31C with regards to
how fast I should have the motor turn at full engagement of the clutch?
(I know I want it to BEGIN to engage at the lowest RPM possible for
the most torque, when should it be fully engaged?) Where is the sweet
spot? THANK YOU! David in Georgia
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:02:29 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Kind of too late to protest because GM has committed to using LifePO4
> (in addition to lithium manganese) on the Volt.
Yes; I know. GM will do what it's going to do, and will ignore what
anyone outside the company says. It's called "not invented here"
syndrome. It the kind of thinking that got them into trouble in the
first place.
They were successful with the Impact/EV1 because they went *outside* the
company, to Aerovironment to design it.
I'm afraid they will fail with the Volt, because they are not listening,
not learning, and likely to repeat the same old mistakes.
> The Volt will be more expensive than they want it to be, but GM is too
> deeply committed now to back off. They are going to throw it onto the
> market and hope that the early adopters will be willing to eat the extra
> costs.
> The entire industry is rushing forward with lithium.
Yes; just like they rushed forward with hydrogen a few years ago, and
nimh a few years before that, and before that nicads, and sodium-sulfur,
and silver-zinc, etc. etc.
There is *always* a superbattery just around the corner, that will solve
all our problems. Maybe someday, one will. But so far, once we get to
know them, they have all turned out to have cost or manufacturability or
safety or environmental problems that prevent them from being used
except in a few specialized applications.
> To whatever extent lithium battery costs will go down due to scale,
> we are going to see this take place in the next 3-5 years.
Maybe. They are already manufacturing lithium cells by the millions. How
much further cost reduction do you get when you go from millions to
billions? Usually, not much.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:18:07 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:08:37 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
> Subject: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
>
>
> I see Kelly requires a DC/DC converter for their controller but see no
> mention of that requirement for Alltrax. Is that correct? The DC/DC listed
> would add $100.00 to the cost of the Kelly, unless there is a cheaper one
> available. I was considering the Kelly KD48400, ($289)or maybe the KD72400,
> ($389), for possible future upgrade to 72 volts. However I can get an
> Alltrax NPX 4844 for $290 new, even less used. I realize it's non
> programmable but I don't know if I really need that feature. Thoughts?
The only programmable feature I have found necessary is the throttle response
curve. Everything else is usually just set to max anyway. It's fun to be able
to able to see the realtime data, but a few good meters make this redundant.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:20:56 +0000
From: damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I don't know anything about the particular motor you are using. In general a
series DC motor with internal fan large enough to use in an EV is very happy in
the 3000 RPM range.
damon> To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:56:36 -0500> From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [EVDL] Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM?>
> Hello Group!> > I have just purchased a New [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motors ES31C
Motor and a new 94C Duster > Comet CVT system for a project I am building. I
want to tune the > clutch for the appropriate engagement RPMs to get the
maximum efficient > use of the motor, and still allow it to spin fast enough to
cool > itself. Neither the Manufacturer nor the Reseller will release accurate
> torque curves nor any real Horsepower versus voltage and current > graphs.
THIS IS NUTS! You have to purchase electric motors from [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Motors, not having any real data on the capabilities of the motor. > ANYWAY,
can anyone give me any information on the ES31C with regards to > how fast I
should have the motor turn at full engagement of the clutch? > (I know I want
it to BEGIN to engage at the lowest RPM possible for > the most torque, when
should it be fully engaged?!
) Where is the sweet > spot? THANK YOU! David in Georgia>
________________________________________________________________________> More
new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - >
http://webmail.aol.com> > _______________________________________________> For
subscription options, see> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:52:13 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] GM should sell Volt "batteries not included"
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Rodriguez, Jennifer wrote:
> Oh yeah, that's brilliant. Then they will be as environmentally
> friendly as the flex-fuel Yukon my neighbor just bought that runs on
> E85... Just think of all the people who would buy the Volt and never
> put batteries in!
I understand your point. But a Volt with little or no batteries would
still be a big environmental improvement over most cars.
Detroit has been talking about a 42v electrical system for years. The
idea is to replace the 12v battery with a 36v one, replace the starter
and alternator with a single large motor/generator, and drive as many of
the auxiliary engine loads as possible electrically (power steering,
power brakes, cooling fans, air conditioning, etc.)
There are lots of potential benefits: Idle stop (stop the engine when
coasting or not moving, and restart it as needed). The electric motor
can be used as a brief horsepower booster (limited by battery capacity).
Emissions can be reduced and fuel economy increased (especially during
testing) by running the various loads electrically instead of making the
ICE drive them. This keeps the ICE closer to its most efficient and
cleanest operating modes.
Well, the Volt is their chance to put these ideas into practice. The
technology is far less risky. The car could be developed faster and cost
less. They need to develop expertise with all these systems anyway.
> (Anyway, I thought the Volt's gasoline engine only served to charge the
> batteries, not to propel the car?)
Since they plan on a series hybrid, there is no direct connection
between the ICE and wheels. The ICE drives a generator, which provides
electricity to drive a motor, which drives the wheels. You have an
electric "transmission", just like a diesel-electric bus or locomotive.
No batteries needed (except to start the ICE).
Sell it with a little battery pack, like the Toyota and Honda hybrids;
just enough to start the ICE, provide a few seconds of electric "boost"
and maybe a few miles of pure electric range.
But provide room for a bigger battery pack, as a future option or
aftermarket accessory. It provides the greatly extended range as an EV,
plug-in hybrid capability, etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:04:57 -0800 (PST)
From: fsabolich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
They likely require only a small amount of current at 18-40 volts. For
example, my controllers require 18-30 volt supply for logic section and up
to 72V for the power section. For the logic section they require less than
100mA at 24V. You can have a simple 24V zener followed by a transistor
(with heat sink) and capacitor for a low current 24V supply - only costs a
few bucks to build. For 72V from the batteries and assuming 100mA current
you would have (72-24) * 0.1 = 5W on the transistor. You can easily heat
sink 5W.
Fran
JRP3 wrote:
>
> The really confusing part, (for me at least), is they say the controller
> requires an 18-40 volt supply, so I guess you couldn't even use your 12 DC
> accessory converter? I'm building an off road 6 wheel ATV and I don't
> plan on using a DC/DC so it would be an unneeded expense in my situation.
>
>
> M. Barkley wrote:
>>
>> I'm going to assume they run the logic of the
>> controller from 12volts, and since every car has to
>> have some sort of 12 volts for auxillary systems, IE:
>> Lights, Radio, etc. that it shouldn't be a hard thing
>> to achieve. But you know what assuming can be, so I'd
>> email David and ask him, or Kelly Controllers for the
>> horses mouth perspective.
>>
>>
>
>
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Alltrax-vs.-Kelly-tp15396716p15399165.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:41:25 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have just purchased a New [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motors ES31C Motor and a new
> 94C Duster
> Comet CVT system for a project I am building... Neither the Manufacturer nor
> the Reseller will release accurate
> torque curves nor any real Horsepower versus voltage and current
> graphs. THIS IS NUTS!
It is odd if they won't give you at least some basic
torque/speed/volts/amps data.
But, you can (and probably do) want to generate these curves for
yourself. For one thing, the controller has a big effect on motor
performance. For another, you want to fine-tune your CVT, and it will be
a lot easier to do this on the bench where you can measure things.
Why not build yourself a dynamometer? It's not really all that hard. The
most straightforward way would be to get a big truck or bus alternator,
and use it as the load. Replace the usual voltage regulator with a
rheostat, so you can manually adjust the load. Use the power generated
by this alternator to charge the batteries you are using to run the motor.
There are several ways to calibrate it. It's easy to measure power into
the motor (volts x amps = watts; horsepower = watts / 746). It's easy to
measure the power out of the alternator the same way. However, the
losses are divided up between motor efficiency, alternator efficiency,
and CVT efficiency. I'd say your best bet is to mount the motor by its
shaft, in bearings, so the case can rotate slightly. Put a long arm on
the case, and rest it on a spring scale. Motor power output is then RPM
x torque (foot-pounds; length of the arm times pounds of force on the
scale; horsepower = RPM x ft.lbs / 5252).
You can measure the losses of each part of your system this way; motor,
alternator, and the what's left is CVT loss.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:40:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Brad Lindberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Delta-Q Charger
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The temp sensor I have is a separate piece with two four inch pig tails. The
sensor has a ring at one end and red and white fastons on the other.
I tried the algs. I got codes six,seven,eight, and nine. When I tried to go
past code nine the charger just alternated between the 80% and two amp leds.
The eBay seller told me he got the charger from a closed Dodge dealer. Most
likely a replacement stock for a GEM?
Thanks, Brad
--
View this message in context:
http://www.nabble.com/Delta-Q-Charger-tp15315426p15399629.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:02:13 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
They may not because he is asking custom stuff and if they say one
thing and his results say another then there is a problem. Legal
problems. Do you're own testing as was suggested. Custom work is just
that. Custom. What would a motor manufacturer say if you were going
to do a siamese setup. Think they'd give you any information.
Pete : )
On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
> It is odd if they won't give you at least some basic
> torque/speed/volts/amps data.
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:34:36 -0800
From: Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Sweet Spot for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motor RPM?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
EVparts.com has a lot of information posted on the motors they sell, you
may find the information there.
Bill
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello Group!
>
> I have just purchased a New [EMAIL PROTECTED] Motors ES31C Motor and a new
> 94C Duster
> Comet CVT system for a project I am building. I want to tune the
> clutch for the appropriate engagement RPMs to get the maximum efficient
> use of the motor, and still allow it to spin fast enough to cool
> itself. Neither the Manufacturer nor the Reseller will release accurate
> torque curves nor any real Horsepower versus voltage and current
> graphs. THIS IS NUTS! You have to purchase electric motors from [EMAIL
> PROTECTED]
> Motors, not having any real data on the capabilities of the motor.
> ANYWAY, can anyone give me any information on the ES31C with regards to
> how fast I should have the motor turn at full engagement of the clutch?
> (I know I want it to BEGIN to engage at the lowest RPM possible for
> the most torque, when should it be fully engaged?) Where is the sweet
> spot? THANK YOU! David in Georgia
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------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:18:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: "Mitch or Terri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I don't see where you would need to ever use a DC to dc.. I don't see it on
my owners manual for my 72400.. I would be happy to send a copy of that
manually to any body that's would like to see it. Just get me your email
address
Mitchell
-------Original Message-------
From: JRP3
Date: 02/10/08 11:24:40
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Alltrax vs. Kelly
The really confusing part, (for me at least), is they say the controller
Requires an 18-40 volt supply, so I guess you couldn't even use your 12 DC
Accessory converter? I'm building an off road 6 wheel ATV and I don't plan
On using a DC/DC so it would be an unneeded expense in my situation.
M. Barkley wrote:
>
> I'm going to assume they run the logic of the
> controller from 12volts, and since every car has to
> have some sort of 12 volts for auxillary systems, IE:
> Lights, Radio, etc. That it shouldn't be a hard thing
> to achieve. But you know what assuming can be, so I'd
> email David and ask him, or Kelly Controllers for the
> horses mouth perspective.
>
>
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Alltrax-vs
-Kelly-tp15396716p15397878.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
Nabble.com.
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End of EV Digest, Vol 7, Issue 17
*********************************
