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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Heating Batteries with AC Current (EVDL Administrator)
   2. Re: Bringing the iMiEV to the US ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   3. TREV 3 wheeler (John G. Lussmyer)
   4. Re: Basic DC Motor Characteristics and Graphs (Peter VanDerWal)
   5. Re: Heating Batteries with AC Current (Morgan LaMoore)
   6. Re: Urba-Electric.More. (Bob Rice)
   7. Re: Optimas - I need your data to compare (John G. Lussmyer)
   8. Re: Raptor 600 DC Motor Controller on Ebay (Lee Hart)
   9. Re: Cost Effective EV's,  - Urba-Electric (jerryd)
  10. Re: Battery temperature measurement (Lee Hart)
  11. Re: Opportunity power supply / charger (Lee Hart)
  12. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC (Michael T Kadie)
  13. Re: Raptor 600 DC Motor Controller on Ebay (Bob Bath)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 00:33:27 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heating Batteries with AC Current
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 16 Feb 2008 at 23:14, Chuck Homic wrote:

> I wonder if you could do battery heating off the pack itself with a 
> simple circuit. 

A good 20 years ago, I read (probably in Current EVents) that some of the 
west coast distance rally EVers were heating their batteries with external 
heaters - similar to waterbed heaters - powered by the pack.  The notion was 
that the extra range obtained by getting the batteries nice and toasty more 
than offset the energy used.  The downside is that excessive hot batteries 
have a shorter cycle life, but for their purposes that was OK.

In a more or less related matter, I recall reading WAY back when that EV 
racers used SLI batteries.  They had more power, more energy, less weight 
than deep cycle batteries.  Cycle life was stinky of course, but again for 
their purposes it didn't matter that much; run a couple of races and recycle 
them.  (I wonder whether they managed to get warranty claims on them. ;-)

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 05:55:00 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bringing the iMiEV to the US
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have been told in person by my friend at Mitsubishi 
http://evtransportal.com/mitsubishimiev.html
that Mitsubishi will be bringing multiple iMiEV's to the New York Auto Show 
March 21 through 30,
and that they will be "driving around at the show" -no news on any plans to 
import to US (for now).
I won't be able to attend, but would love to post some video of this event if 
they indeed show up.

Peter Oppewall
Editor, EVtransPortal.com




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:24:07 -0800
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] TREV 3 wheeler
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

So, has this one been seen here yet?
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/23/trev-is-a-new-two-seat-electric-trike-from-down-under/
I'll take one to replace my Sparrow.  Too bad it's a one off.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 17:04:46 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Basic DC Motor Characteristics and Graphs
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1


> I have motor torque curves for the motors i am considering. These show
> that at say 500A, the motor will produce 100ft-lbs of torque, at 72v that
> corresponds to peak hp at say 2000rpm, any further increase in speed will
> then result in a lower power...
>
> I want to know what will happen if my voltage is above that used in the
> manufacturer graph - if i was able to provide that current at say 144V
> (and the controller limited current at 500A), would the motor keep pulling
> 500A/producing 100ft-lbs upto the speed corresponding to 144v (if linear,
> 4000rpm) ?

Yes, pretty much.  It will be a bit less because of the higher losses from
spinning faster.

>
> I am trying to find out if you keep providing more voltage, will the motor
> keep pulling the max current your battery system can provide? (until the
> motor overheats/blows). If not, how can I predict the drop in max current
> draw as I increase voltage beyond that specified?

Yes, the torque vs current remains basically the same as you raise voltage
(minus a little for the extra losses, friction, windage, etc.).  The RPM
pretty much follows the voltage if you keep the torque and current the
same, so doubling the voltage will about double the RPM.

By using the controller to limit current, you basically keep the motor at
a fixed torque output until it spins up fast enough to reach the point
where the controller is full on and not limiting current anymore.
At that point, if you keep accelerating, the current will start to fall.

Of course this assumes that the motor doesn't either melt down or go into
self-disassembly mode (fly apart)

There are some formulas that can roughly model a motors performance
outside the graphs, however you have to calculate come motor constants
etc, by sucessive approximation based on the data from existing graphs at
several different voltages.
Not really worth the effort in my opinion.  If you have to graphs you can
guestimate the results just about as accurately, and spend a lot less time
doing it.

>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Scott
> _________________________________________________________________
> Free games, great prizes - get gaming at Gamesbox.
> http://www.searchgamesbox.com
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 01:17:02 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heating Batteries with AC Current
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sat, Feb 16, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Dan Frederiksen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  you could alternate charge and discharge to heat it with internal
>  resistance but I think that just connecting to sinewave AC would turn
>  nasty. when the AC tries to charge it it might work ok but when the
>  polarity reverses it will try to help discharge the battery more than a
>  short circuit. the AC source probably couldn't handle what the battery
>  would send down the line.

That's why we're talking about an AC current, not an AC voltage.

To use simple wall voltage for this, he reversed half the pack so it
was a net 0V pack (I.E. disconnect it in the middle and switch the two
leads of one side). Then with 10 batteries, the voltage on each
battery is its own DC voltage plus one tenth of the AC voltage.

I still think that you would have to use a variac to put in lower
voltage. Even if your pack has an internal resistance of even 200
mOhms (way too much sag for freeway driving), it'll still draw way too
much current from 120VAC.

-Morgan LaMoore



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:10:23 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Urba-Electric.More.
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,        "Electric Vehicle Discussion
        List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

   Hi Ken;

    Following the thread here, and glad to see yur thinking of a conversion, 
to meet your modest car needs. building from scratch is a challange you 
probably really not up for. The Hassle Factor. At least with a car, it's 
DONE for you. Thinking, doors, windows, seats, brakes lights, silly stuff 
like that. The Automobile is invented already! My take , MAYBE you can find 
a clean, older Rabbit, Geo, Golf, lighter, relatively, car -cus, or as we 
say ,doner cars, try to stay below 2 thou lbs, WELL below. A Carman Ghia is 
nice, aero, simple, light, but scarce. Maybe I n Idaho, Moscow? Ya said, 
there MAY be cars that have survived into longer years, but stay clear of 
rust buckets! You don't wanna spend you life making a piece of shit into an 
ELECTRIC piece of shit<G>!Seems cars sold east of the Mississippi, come with 
"Rust-O-Matic" from the factory, EVen my 01 Prius!!

    The Urba Electric is cute, I met one at Lee Harts, but, whathehell? You 
can't take your Significent Other, bring home any groceries, same issues a 
Sparrow has.You have all the design issues you will have with a car 
conversion, and evertually a NO Parts issue when needed. It was nice going 
to Auto Zone and just BUYING Nissan Calipers, roters , Mc Phearson strut 
cartridges, bolting all these shiny knick-knacks together. Simple car 
mechanic stuff. Or VW, VW crap is in EVery Parts store, Craig's List and 
Bargain News, local(CT) classy-fied ads paper.

    Several years ago , Mark Hastings an' I were involved with a 72 volt 
Rabbit, he BOUGHT it. I hear J. Wayland growning, here, but it was built by 
a guy sort of like you. He had a simple 10 mile each way commute through the 
secondary roads of Wilmington DE. He wasn't looking for 0-60 in under 4 
seconds, he just wanted to keep up with most traffic, willing to shift 
gears, WITH the clutch! With 12 Inter-State Work-a-haulic Golf cart Batteri, 
a Curtis, a KTA kit, I think? For the adapter plate and coupling, a bolt in 
setup. With a indecent Dog's Breakfast ,crappola set of badd-eries I was 
inpressed at it's performance. A Amtrak like 0-to60, but , using the gears, 
you HAD to with a Curtis, you could go along at 30-40 in cititraffic. Hell 
it only had a 6-7" motor a tiny one, as I remember. Car WASN'T a Led Sled, 
though. Handled reasonably, and after murdering your first set of batteri, 
it wont break you budget buyin' ONLY 12 batteries! IF ya shop around SOME 
battery places have good USED ones at 20 bux or so. My FIRST pak was 20 
T-105's for my Rabbit. I beat the shit out of them, often creeping home at 
10mph, but they forgave me and rewarded me with 20 thou. before dying! Tony 
Ascrizzi did a 96 volt Golf, 7" motor, sa Rapture I think controller, with 4 
of us aboard it did just fine crosstown on Wonderful Worst-er's bombed out 
streets, about 20 mile RT to O'Connors for dinner.Worcester MA here. A 
forgotten city, 40 miles west of Bean town. Robert Goddard's home" Father of 
Rocketry", sez so when you enter town, big sign<g> They EVen built Pullman 
cars there,50 years ago!

    So think Forkin' Swift here. The guy in Canada who did a really basic 
EV, using his inginuity, to get a drivable car on the road! Start Slow, 
modestly. Maybe try 8-10 batteri at first? Curtis's are available NOW! I 
know where they are in STOCK. And if it isn't enough you can up grade 
selling it off, to other EVers.You COULD carry it to extreame, like Wayland. 
HE started out at 24-48 volts, too. EV's can be mild to Wild, pick your 
station in life, and step off.  MY cars aren't racers, just something to run 
my errands, run without gas, and all the crap that goes with it. Doesn't 
hurt my ego to be passed, on the hiway, I'll EVen sidle over to the right so 
you can get by if you want to do 55 in a 30 zone. Speed on ~!!! Hell is only 
half full! IF ya have to get there so Godamn fast, LEAVE 5 minutes sooner. A 
piece of advice from my Dad, as well as "Get A Job you Like, and You Never 
have to go to Work" I took his advice at 34, he at 58. I put ,millions of 
miles on Antrak's Electrics. You EV will be satisfying to drive, as you waft 
along, about(Gasp!) the posted speed limit, where it is a efficient speed 
for you. The satisfaction of having made a statement. That YOU are doing 
something. Maybe waking up a few American Sheeple that EV's DO exist, and 
work.But speed, keep in mind, will COST ya. It's right in your face; 
Ampmeter! Do 50-55 at 100 amps , 70-75  spend 200-250 
amps!80mph=300!!PLUS.Nearly a short circus!

   My point, oh! I have one<g>, sometimes. Think simple, start out with a 
light car, learn what works. The List here is a good resource. Sheesh! We 
never had it 30-40 years ago!

    YMMV

    Bob 



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 07:58:01 -0800
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Optimas - I need your data to compare
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Steve Powers wrote:
> My question is - can other people confirm that Optimas
> bought today have 40% less capacity at EV drain rate
> than Optimas bought new in 1997?  If so, that means
> the batteries are not the same.  Most likely, these
> new ones have lower actual C/20 capacity and higher
> internal resistance which is really killing me at EV
> drain rates.
>   

I think you aren't receiving answers because you've never posted exactly 
how you are charging your batteries.
That makes a BIG difference in how they work.



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:57:09 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Raptor 600 DC Motor Controller on Ebay
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Paul Compton wrote:
> My experience with controllers running on over 144 volt is that very
> shortly after failing ON, the silicon blows itself to pieces and
> fails OFF.

Possible; I've seen that happen, too. But would you want your life to 
*depend* on it?

The transistors *might* burn open if the fault current was extremely 
high -- far beyond normal running current. But something can easily 
limit the current to only (say) 2 times normal so the transistors won't 
burn or explode open. The battery pack may have high enough resistance, 
or the motor is at a high enough RPM, for example.

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:58:29 -0500
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Cost Effective EV's,  - Urba-Electric
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"



           Hi Ken and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Kenneth G. Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Cost Effective EV's,  - Urba-Electric


>On 16 Feb 2008 at 16:40, jerryd wrote:
>
>>            Hi Ken and All,
>
>Hello, Jerry.


        Both Mike and Bob are correct in building from
scratch is a very hard way to because of all those little
things that takes a very long time to do besides the body.
By using a lightweight conversion, kitcar, you save so much.
Been there, done that, driving me crazy!! Only do a 1 off if
you enjoy building a whole lot.


-I might clarify that I am not a "Greenie" insofar as that
is not 
-my religion, as it obviously is for some. However, I also
feel 
-that completely eliminating all unnecessary waste and 
-pollution is extremely important

         I'm into EV's that beat ICE's on cost. 
>
>> That's because few have been built, probably less than 5.
>
>Wow! I had no idea.

         Of all Riley's 40,000 sets of plans sold, probably
only 25 have been finished. Not a good record. Though under
downloads on his website is about the best info on design of
lightweight, 3 wheel vehicles. At least his new one, the XR3
he is selling bodies so more may be finished. 

>
>> Why is one off FG the way he does is very hard
>> to do.
>
>Hmmm...didn't know that. I know a lot of boat builders use 
>that method. Didn't seem to me that it would be all that 
>difficult for a car, but I don't know much...yet. :-)

        That's what I did for a living and we use molds for
FG boats, few FG are 1 offs. Most  1 off boats are done in
metal or wood/epoxy.

>
>> You could make FG panels on a flat mold and use them
>> to cut time to build in 1/2. I think Riley did it on
>> purpose so few would build them.
>
>>  For good info on building 1 off EV's, join
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] and read the short archives.
>> It's
>> fairly dead but a great resource of that. Make take a
>> week of so to be approved but well worth it.

>> You might want to try a plywood/epoxy body
>> finished clear is easy, light, fast to build and looks
>> great.
>
>I'll have to do some research on that. I'm not at all
>familiar  with the process.

       Very easy and if you screw up, it only costs a couple
hundred $ and a week or 2. You can build one just to learn,
then build a better one to use. Raceboat, aircraft technics
will give you a light, strong EV.

>
>> interested in building one.
>> 
>> Better would be convert a VW Bug, Karman Ghia,
>> much easier, faster, cheaper.
>
>Well, the reason I hesitate is that those are much heavier 
>than the Urba-Electric, and thus would (?) have shorter 
>range, and would require more expensive components.

       While a little heavier it's well worth it in time,
cash, parts availability, resale, crash protection, windows,
ect. 

>
>> Could be done in under 2
>> months and $2500.
>
>Really!?!?!

      Yes. As a good scrounger, I'd do it for even less.

>
>> Best EV value and great to learn on and
>> easy to title, sell if you want to upgrade.
>
>Yes. I can see that, all right.
> 
>> It seems to me that a possible first step in the updating
>> of the design of the Urba-Electric would be to change
>> from 6 V  to 12 V batteries and use the appropriate motor
>> and  controller, higher voltage meaning lower current for
>> the  same power.
>> 
>> A low voltage system like 72vdc keeps costs down
>> while working well in this size, especially for a town
>car.
>
>I can see that, too. Thanks! :-)
>
> 
>> No need as a series motor will handle it well with direct
>drive.
>
>Ah! Yes! Of course. I was thinking of the G43 type 
>propulsion system. Silly me. 

       Those are less eff than regular series motors.

>>
>> In any case, I think my first step is to learn as much as
>> I can about the newer motors.
>> 
>> Only if you want to spend 2-3x's the money. You
>> need 2-3x's the rated power too vs a series motor as they
>> make much more starting torque to start up hills, etc.
>
>
>Huh?....OH! You mean like a 3phase AC vs a standard 
>series-wound DC motor? OK. 

       Or PM, BLDC, ect. Series are called traction motors
for a reason.

>Of course, the HF Multiphase AC motor should be lighter 
>(needing less iron in the core) than a DC motor of the same
>power, but then there is the trade-off in efficiency for
>the  DC-AC conversion scheme.

       For the same actual power, they weigh the same but
series costs much less.

>
>No. I planned to stick with series-wound DC motor, but a 
>"newer" one.
> 
>> The suspension is not good swing arm on all 4
>> wheels,
>
>Like an early Corvair or a VW

        Yes but on all 4 wheels!

>>> A
>> Bug would be much better and only a little more weight.
>
>Really? I thought even a stripped bug would weigh at least 
>twice what the finished Urba-Electric would. I must be way 
>off.

       True but not that big a deal. For lighter, easier, a
kitcar like a Jamican GT, GT40, ect is as light as a Urba.

>
>> Both
>> limited to under 50 mph if you want range.
>
>I would need to be able to hit at least 60 to 65 if I
>decided to  go to Lewiston (30 miles) or even Pullman,
>Washington  (7miles west). They just opened up a new 4 lane
>both  directions. And Lewiston has a really STEEP and LONG
>hill  down and back up.
>
>Hmmm...maybe I should forget Lewiston. Yes, I believe I 
>will. :-)

        A Karman Ghia can do the higher speeds as the bug
can, just not as far. You gain about as much going down as
you lose going up so not such a deal.

>
>>> >>  Put a stock Pinto/MustangII front end and a Ford
>> >> 8" or 9" rear end on that simple frame and you could
>> >> get decent handling as well.
>> 
>>  Or a golf cart transaxle with a higher power motor,
>
>I had wondered about that too. Or a forklift rig?

       Forklifts have too high a gear for high speed.

>
>> many are available that bolt on from GC hop up sites,
>> EVParts, D+D motors, ect for light EV's.
>
>Thanks, I'll check them out.
>

>Are Li-Ions becoming cheaper and more useable? Laptop 
>batteries. :-)

         Not yet but prices are coming down in a few yrs
will be viable.


>> If higher speed wanted, old aero kitcars are cheap dead
>> as most are.
>
>I don't know about Aero kit cars. Could you enlighten me a 
>bit?

       The above models amoung other are mostly VW chassis
with FG bodies. Low frontal area and smooth lines usually
give good aero, lightweight, thus low drag, long range at
higher speeds.

>
>Thanks very much for the info, Jerry.

       You are welcome. We want you to be successful in your
EV. Check the EV clubs online as there may be one near you.

                                  Jerry Dycus   

>
>Ken Gordon 



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:01:10 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery temperature measurement
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Mark Eidson wrote:
> What is the best way to measure the battery temperature of a typical
> 12V lead acid battery?

If it's a flooded battery, pull off a vent cap and stick a probe into 
the electrolyte.

If it's a sealed battery, you can measure the outside case temperature 
but it will be very slow to respond and rather inaccurate due to the 
insulating value of the plastic. In this case, measure one of the 
terminal temperatures. These provide a big, thick, good conductor of 
heat to sense internal temperature (at least for the end two cells).

-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 10:36:06 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Opportunity power supply / charger
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dave Delman wrote:
> I would like to build a charger for my 156V pack (190VDC max charge
> voltage) that will run off 110 VAC. Right now I can do it with the  240V
> variac (it has a 110V input also) but at 70 pounds it's is too heavy.

A 70 lbs variac? It must be good for 30-50 amps! Your AGMs would suggest 
you sell it and get a real charger. :-)

Charging from 120vac will limit you to about 15 amps. If that's OK, 
there are a number of ways to boost the voltage to 190vdc max.

1. Boost transformer: You need a transformer with a 120vac primary
    and 20-30vac 15amp secondary. Wire the primary to the 120vac line.
    Wire the secondary in series with the 120vac line so it adds.
    (120vac + 20vac = 140vac = 196vdc peak). A small variac or light
    dimmer can adjust the transformer primary voltage to control the
    output voltage; it only needs to handle about 1/5th the total
    output current due to the transformer.

2. Fullwave voltage doubler with two diodes and two capacitors:

120vac______|\|________pack+
        |    |/|    |
        |     D1   _|_
        |          ___ C1
        |           |
        |  neutral__|
        |          _|_
        |          ___ C2
        |     D2    |
        |____|/|____|___pack-
             |\|

    This requires two big *non-electrolytic* film or paper/oil
    capacitors. They use electrolytics in low-power supplies, but
    don't try it at these power levels or they will get hot and burst!
    These capacitors need enough capacitance and ripple current rating
    to handle the full charging current. Again, a variac or light
    dimmer can adjust the input AC voltage; but now they need to be
    rated at the full charging current.

    Note: If you happen to have an even number of batteries, the two
    capacitors can be eliminated. The neutral connects to the center
    tap of the battery pack, so they function as the capacitors. But
    the batteries act like "infinite" capacitors, so this arrangement
    has very high peak currents and very bad power factor. You must
    have a series inductor, variac, phase controller, or *something*
    to limit peak current.

3. Halfwave double with two diodes and one capacitor:

                  ________pack+
                _|_
           C1   /_\ D1
120vac____||____|
           ||   _|_
                /_\ D2
neutral_________|________pack-

    Similar to #2 but requires only one capacitor (of twice the size).
    As above, C1 *must* be film or paper/oil, *not* an electrolytic!

4. Conventional transformer-rectifier charger: Basically, a big
    transformer that provides isolation, steps the voltage up, and
    (often) provides current limiting and regulation. 156vdc is a bit
    unusual, so it may be hard to find a stock transformer. You can
    wind your own secondary on a suitable candidate (such as an old
    microwave oven transformer).

5. Boost converter: This requires a transistor, a diode, an inductor,
    and a capacitor (and some IC to control it). The basics aren't hard,
    but the details can be challenging.

Besides these, there are all sorts of more complex and sophisticated 
circuits.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 08:09:19 -0800
From: "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

I was mostly trying to make a joke about the fact that I need more practice
on the track.  I've been trying to get to a 1/4 mile track for a while, I've
just had logistics problems and personal issues.  It is a lot easier for me
to drive the car to one of the two 1/8 mile tracks and practice driving her
than it is for me to find a trailer and truck to get her to the 'close'
(Pomona) 1/4 mile tracks when it happens to be open to public.  If anyone
has any information about when Pomona is open or another 1/4 mile strip
within 150 miles of San Diego I would appreciate it.

So in short I've got nothing but love for Plasma Boy and more for my baby
2SSIC.  As I stated when I was talking 'smack' about Plasma Boy I stated
that the only way I thought I could when was by cheating (lighter car,
better batteries, and running full slicks with wheelie bars against dot
tires).  I appreciate him doing the analysis for my car's current
performance and I really want to get her on a 1/4 mile track.  But right now
I'm trying to get 4 cars ready for the Long Beach Grand Prix in April and
one isn't even started yet.

So in short I would just like to say ELECTRIC CARS RULE! And my car is a
imitation of an Shelby AC Cobra Daytona not a ford :) .  

Everyone keep up the good work, and as I often say 'Every time I go down the
track I have a smile on my face' or as Eva said 'It's like chocolate without
calories!'

KD
www.ssi-racing.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 1:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC

The rising sun on the door or the White Zombie - that's gonna leave a mark
:-)

Paul Gooch

On Feb 16, 2008, at 11:51 AM, Mike Willmon wrote:

> ...Link that works
>
> http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/Pinto_Art_Work.jpg





------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:59:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Raptor 600 DC Motor Controller on Ebay
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

FWIW, my Raptor (gen 1, and a re-built upgraded gen.
2) both failed, at 144, and the silicon was indeed
toast; ie, off, not on failure mode.
Still have the circuit breaker just in case, but
thought I'd add my 2 amperes.

--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Paul Compton wrote:
> > My experience with controllers running on over 144
> volt is that very
> > shortly after failing ON, the silicon blows itself
> to pieces and
> > fails OFF.
> 
> Possible; I've seen that happen, too. But would you
> want your life to 
> *depend* on it?
> 
> The transistors *might* burn open if the fault
> current was extremely 
> high -- far beyond normal running current. But
> something can easily 
> limit the current to only (say) 2 times normal so
> the transistors won't 
> burn or explode open. The battery pack may have high
> enough resistance, 
> or the motor is at a high enough RPM, for example.
> 
> -- 
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 


Thinking about converting a gen. 5 ('92-95) Honda Civic?  My $23 
"CivicWithACord" DVD (57 mins.) shows ins and outs you'll encounter, featuring 
a sedan; a del Sol, and a hatchback, each running 144V/18 batteries.  It 
focuses on component/instrumentation/battery placement and other 
considerations.  For more info,   
http://home.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
                          ____ 
                       __/__|__\__       
             =D-------/   - -     \     
                      'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?


      
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs



------------------------------

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