Send EV mailing list submissions to
        ev@lists.sjsu.edu

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC (Pestka, Dennis J)
   2. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC (dave cover)
   3. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   4. Censorship, was   Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
      (Roderick Wilde)
   5. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC (Chuck Homic)
   6. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC (Ralph Merwin)
   7. Re: Battery Beach autoX video (ProEV)
   8. Re: Thoughts on conversion resale value... (Peter VanDerWal)
   9. Re: li battery - pricing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  10. Re: Questions to the list. (Doug Weathers)
  11. i MiEV Petition Featured on Edmunds Green Car Advisor (Ben)
  12. Electric Pyramid Car (Mark Hanson)
  13. Re: Electric Pyramid Car (Dmitri)
  14. Re: Electric Izetta in Siagon? (fsabolich)
  15. Re: Electric Pyramid Car (Chuck Homic)
  16. Re: li battery - pricing (Morgan LaMoore)
  17. Re: Questions to the list. (Dmitri)
  18. Re: Electric Pyramid Car (Peter VanDerWal)
  19. Re: Elaphe ltd - interesting BLDC motors (Rod Hower)
  20. Re: Censorship, was Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
      (Evan Tuer)
  21. Re: Electric Pyramid Car (Jon Glauser)
  22. Re: gm volt (Dan Frederiksen)
  23. Re: OT Anyone email me recently? Freedom EV (Richard Rau)
  24. Re: Doubler or Not (Lee Hart)
  25. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC (EVDL Administrator)
  26. Re: Censorship, was Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
      (Morgan LaMoore)
  27. Re: Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC (Ben)
  28. Re: Electric Pyramid Car (Myles Twete)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:58:15 -0600
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

David;

Please, please, please ignore this post ! 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Frederiksen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC

EVDL Administrator wrote:
> I don't allow my personal opinion 
> to influence my editorial management of the list.   
>   
right. you're a petty self righteous man abusing power as a crotch for
low self esteem. you are perfectly content permanently delaying people's
messages for hours to days each time, sometimes they even get lost in
this 'moderation'. and you consider that objective.

you're a tyrant David. a small man not fit for power. and rather than
wake up to that you will tighten the grip further in a desperate attempt
to make the truth go away.
fabricating illusions to make you seem righteous in your own mind yet
not a second of self examination. I'm sure you believe that you are just
and merciful ruler because you gracefully moderate us instead of just
plain banning us. am I not merciful...

this message was written 2:16AM GMT and it will never arrive...





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:34:22 -0500
From: "dave cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 2/20/08, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> right. you're a petty self righteous man abusing power as a crotch for
> low self esteem. you are perfectly content permanently delaying people's
> messages for hours to days each time, sometimes they even get lost in
> this 'moderation'. and you consider that objective.
>
> you're a tyrant David. a small man not fit for power. and rather than
> wake up to that you will tighten the grip further in a desperate attempt
> to make the truth go away.
> fabricating illusions to make you seem righteous in your own mind yet
> not a second of self examination. I'm sure you believe that you are just
> and merciful ruler because you gracefully moderate us instead of just
> plain banning us. am I not merciful...
>

If this isn't as far as you can get from the lists purpose, than I
don't know what is. David, don't think you need to temper you response
because it's a personal attack and you want to appear impatial. This
type of material DOES NOT BELONG HERE. If it's not against you, it has
been against others. This is the type of response that offends me.

Dave Cover

Dave Cover



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:31:07 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

David,

Seems I missed alot of the hubub on the list as of late but after 
reading this post I wondered why we have never met in person.  As I 
believe you are in Akron, and only about an hrs drive from my shop, I 
invite you to come down to Youngstown to our shop and see some 
practical, ridiculous, fast, and just plain fun EV's.  Aside from my 
company's standard products, I am involved with this list, with NEDRA, 
and Ev's in general primarily because of one thing, the EV grin.  There 
is nothing more rewarding then seeing this spread to new faces every 
day.  That can come from dragsters, motorcycles, mowers, whirlies, etc, 
etc.... it doesn't really matter to me, as long as I get to spread the 
grin.

I encourage all listers, as passionate as they may be, to remember back 
to their first grin.  I promise just doing so will put it right back on 
your face and remind you of what we are all doing here.

Shawn Lawless




-----Original Message-----
From: EVDL Administrator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:20 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC



On 20 Feb 2008 at 16:19, joe wrote:

> Some
> of the recent arguments over records, for instance, I believe were 
out of
> line - BUT I tolerated them all anyway.

I'm going to try to make this my last post in this thread.  I would be 
glad
to discuss this further offline, but if we're not careful this thread 
is
going to become the very thing I'm trying to prevent.

Some people here are objecting to being moderated.  I can understand 
some of
this attitude.  I don't much like doing it, either, for a lot of 
different
reasons.  I'm something of an idealist. I like the idea of 
self-regulated
communitarian societies, even if they do have some downsides - as in 
Japan,
where, as they say, "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down."

But why do you suppose that after six weeks of this new policy, 
suddenly
it's become an issue?  What exactly do they want to say >right now< 
that I
won't allow?

While it is NOT the purpose of moderation to shut down any particular 
topic,
I'm fairly sure - not 100%, but almost - that racing is indeed involved 
this
time.

Without getting too specific, it appears to me that this whole 
discussion
was prompted by the fact that I declined a post which, in my judgement, 
was
apt to start another flame war over drag racing records.  I will allow 
that
I could be mistaken about how likely that is or was, or about what the
impetus was, but read on and perhaps you'll understand my caution.

For some people, EV racing has gone beyond sport and now it's about
sponsorships and money.  In a way this is good.  It shows that EV 
racing is
now accepted in the same leagues (sorry if that's the wrong term) as 
ICE
racing.

However, the fun factor is down and the stress factor is up.  While 
there
are still plenty of friends in EV racing, some formerly friendly banter 
has
gotten less and less friendly in recent years.  We've all seen it 
happening.
In early January, it degenerated into angry partisan bickering over who 
set
what record when.

Meanwhile, EV hobbyists are here on the EVDL, trying to discuss EVs and 
get
practical answers to questions about whether batteries can be mounted 
on
their sides and how they should be charged and why their range is down 
and
whether a conversion or a scratch-built EV is the right approach for 
them
and ...

... and a lot of other stuff that's important to them as they try to 
make
EVs part of their everyday lives.

I can't say that EV racing records aren't important when people are 
spending
tens of thousands of dollars to outfit their racers, while other tens 
of
thousands of dollars in prize and sponsorship money is on the line.  
But who
wants to say that racing records are more important than whether 
another
guy's EV will get him to work tomorrow?  Who wants to say they're more
important than whether someone in Baltimore finds a person to help him 
fix
his Jet Electrica, or has to junk it because the city is on his case 
about a
non-functional vehicle?

Trying to have those kinds of real-world EV discussions with the 
timeslip
battle as a backdrop is like trying to enjoy a good meal in a 
restaurant
while a half-dozen guys are having a knock-down brawl over at the bar.  
If
you were in the dining room in that restaurant, you'd be on the phone
calling the cops.  The men in blue would come and pull the scrapping 
guys
apart, and do their best to keep them apart.

Which is pretty much what I'm trying to do here.

I'd love to have a world were we didn't need police and laws - or for 
that
matter mailing list moderation - but we've lost that ideal world.  I 
don't
see it returning in my lifetime.

I know, there's a kind of danger in power.  I don't want to minimize 
that.
But consider the alternative.

>From time to time I stop by a 24-hour grocery in a rough neighborhood 
on my
way home late at night.  I don't much like the fact that a police 
cruiser
has to sit in the parking lot and a guard has to stand inside the door, 
but
their presence allows me to get my bread and milk without worry or 
hassle.

Maybe someday we'll find a way to eliminate crime in a positive way, 
perhaps
by making something else more attractive to criminals.  (You may say 
I'm a
dreamer ... ;-)  But for now the cop in the parking lot is a necessary 
and
practical solution to a sad and otherwise intractable problem.

I'd rather the EVDL policed itself 100%.  The moderation process, while 
not
very time-consuming, isn't something I particularly enjoy.  But for the 
most
part discussion of all kinds - INCLUDING racing - is proceeding 
smoothly.
If we can get there with nothing more than a geeky, greying, 
middle-aged EV
fan clicking a mouse a few (dozen) times a day, I'll settle for 99.98% 
self-
policed.

A couple of people have complained about delays caused by moderation.  
I
really don't see the problem.  The delays aren't significantly 
different
 from the Milter Greylist delays, which we've lived with literally for 
years
with only a few gripes.  Besides, immediacy is not the purpose of 
email.  If
you have to communicate NOW, use the phone, for goodness sake.

Nevertheless, I take this responsibility seriously and try to get held 
posts
dispatched as soon as possible.  The first thing I do when I wake up, 
or
when I get in the house after going somewhere, or get to my desk at 
work
(don't tell my boss), is check the moderation queue.  OK, it takes just 
a
few seconds, but it's several times a day.  I'm basically tethered to 
the
computer.  Do you really think I want to do MORE of that?  Hello?

So, right now the participants in that early January debacle are 
separated
by a slightly chaotic array of cobbled-together fences.  It's not 
perfect,
but it's generally keeping the peace.  When they've settled their
differences and can discuss this stuff without breaking out into 
virtual
fisticuffs, then we can take down some of the fences.  (Let's hope that
nothing else comes along to cause a flame war in the meantime.)

I hope they can settle their differences amicably.  But at the first 
sign of
a clenched fist, I'm going to cordially invite them to take it 
elsewhere.
We'll sit here and enjoy our fajitas, sip our Dos Equus, and chat 
quietly
about EVs while they mix it up out there in the alley.  Just try not to 
dent
the cars, OK guys?

As I said before, I'm not opposed to discussing racing on the list.  
Not at
all.  Moderation is emphatically NOT about preventing that.  Post about 
your
powerful new batteries, your muscular controllers, your tweaked and
glyptoled motors, your television and magazine features, your youtube
videos, your fires lit under GM, your riveted audiences, and yes, your 
new
lower time slips.  These are victories to be proud of.

Whether we race once a week, once a year, once a lifetime, or never, 
all of
us on the EVDL celebrate your successes with you.

But we do not want to watch you beat each other up in public.

David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - 
http://webmail.aol.com



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:09:24 -0800
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Censorship, was   Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

I have been giving a bit of thought about the group that is currently being 
censored of which I am a member. They do have one thing in common and that 
is racing, but I decided to look a little deeper into some form of 
commonality and I came up with this. This group of people all have 
creativity at their core. I believe it is this need to express oneself that 
bothers this group so much about being singled out for censorship. Most 
Americans have shown that they would gladly give up their freedoms for a 
little security. On this note I think I will side with Benjamin Franklin: 
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security 
will deserve neither and lose both."

Roderick Wilde 



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:27:18 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> right. you're a petty self righteous man abusing power as a crotch for 
> low self esteem.
    ...
> you're a tyrant David. a small man not fit for power. 
Dan, maybe I wasn't clear in my last post.  Let me be clearer.

    Stop.         Now.          Please.

Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about.  There is no need 
for this abusive language.  Your attacks are not helping you or the 
list.  I would fully support David banning you from the list forever at 
this point, but I know he will not do it, because he's too damn fair.  
No matter, I have read my last message from you.  To lower my blood 
pressure, I've instructed my mail server to not deliver your messages, 
or their replies.  It's sad, when I joined the list I said to myself, 
"man, everyone's really being unfair to Dan," I recall even posting once 
or twice in your defense.  Now I understand what fatigue has done to 
those who complain about you, and I am likewise fatigued.

I am what David wants to stop.  A new member that has to tolerate all 
the arguments in the midst of useful information, tempted to leave.  I'm 
going to see if I can stick it out with mail filters and still have a 
good time, but I don't think I should have to do that.

Perhaps you could learn some perspective.  One can't have a totalitarian 
regime on an email list.  There is no army or SS thugs doing anyone's 
bidding.  We all know everyone's email addresses, we can all freely 
communicate.  You have chosen to voluntarily participate in David's 
forum.  David has certain goals for this forum, and most of us agree 
with those goals.  If you went to his house and he asked you to take off 
your shoes, you would take off your shoes out of respect, because it's 
his house.  You would not argue that wearing shoes is your right, and  
refuse.

Anyway, I'm as off-topic as the rest of this thread, and I'm hereby 
done.  I will not see any further posts in this thread, either, so that 
I'll not be tempted to drag it out.  I guess the only reason I'm posting 
is to represent what I believe to be the silent majority that it not a 
part of the "we hate David" club.  I think he does a fine (and again, 
thankless) job in keeping EVDL on-topic, and I appreciate his efforts.  
I respect racers when they have news to share with the list, and I agree 
they can do their bickering in private.  What's wrong with that?  Come 
to an agreement, and let us know how it went.  You invite moderation 
when you don't do us this common courtesy.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:26:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

David Dymaxion writes:
> 
> Some more reasons electric racing helps the EV cause:
> Provides a testing ground and market for more reliable EV components (Zilla 
> controller, Warp and Husted motors)
> Racing components can lighten an EV
> Is a great way to advertise electric cars and generate public
> interest Provides good projects for schools
> Racers are car people and not afraid to modify cars, hence a good market for 
> EV conversions

And in some ways the racers themselves hurt 'the EV cause' when they
reduce themselves to endless bickering about who won what record when,
or when they start 'smack talking' each other, in jest or otherwise.

I've gotten to the point where I simply delete any message that appears
to be drag racing or NEDRA related because they're mostly just a bunch
of testosterone-injected B.S.  Most of these postings are only vaguely
related to the EVDL because the vehicle happens to be an electric.

I would certainly be disappointed to see people leave the list over this
issue.  Hopefully the NEDRA folks can setup a suitable mailing list for
drag racing banter and records arguments, and stay on the EVDL for all
the other 'electric vehicle' topics that we all benefit from.

Ralph



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:42:04 -0500
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery Beach autoX video
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Hi Dave,


> Hey Cliff, are you putting on a little spark show on the launch? Looks
> like some electrons leaking out behind your front wheel.

I hope not<G>! I suspect sparks from an AC motor would not be a good thing.

I watched the video a few more times and I think I see what you are talking
about. After the car passes the starting cone there is a bright line that
follows the front wheel. I think that is an artifact caused by the video
compress codec.

> PS Try and schedule a trip to Hagerstown this year for PODC and I'll
> let you school me in AutoX. I need the training.

I would love to but I don't think it is going to happen this year. We have
been looking at the 15 kW generator and the welder and wondering if we
couldn't just whip up a little auxiliary power trailer and drive there.

Cliff
www.ProEV.com







------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:22:08 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thoughts on conversion resale value...
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

Typically speaking, no matter what you choose to convert you won't be able
to sell a used EV for what the parts cost.
There are a couple folks who are managing to make a little money building
EVs for individuals, but it's an entirely different proposition selling a
vehicle made to a customers specs as opposed to trying to find a customer
for an existing vehicle that has been used.

So, given that you probably will loose money with your plan, my advice
would be to opt for the option that looses the least amount of money. 
I.e. build the motorcycle.

> Greetings, list.
>
> This is my first post, so be gentle :) .
>
> In considering my options for an EV, I realized that some of the tenets of
> "extreme programming" might apply here.  One thing is for sure: every
> conversion I study, whether it be an online diary, the EV workshop hosted
> by Ampmobiles conversions a couple of weeks ago, or talking to
> builder-owners, there are always decisions which are made as compromises,
> "left when I shoulda gone right," etc, decisions and actions which the
> victim^H^H^H^H builderer would choose to do differently the "next time."
>
> Recognizing that after my first conversion there will be a "next time,"
> that sort of implies my first vehicle will be one to "throw away" (there
> ya go, an extreme programming concept).  Now realistically, I will not
> throw this vehicle away, I will likely sell it, and move on to the Real
> Deal project- where I will realize my goal of superior (but pricey)
> battery tech, home-made controller, etc.  "Build one to throw away."
>
> The [tentative] goal therefore, is to build a perfectly conventional,
> modest, straightforward "version 1.0" conversion, focusing on very
> disciplined fabrication and construction methods and safety, using and
> applying the sum knowledge I've gleaned thus far (which I fully anticipate
> will increase during the conversion), with the intention of selling it in
> a year or so after I've "broken it in."  I would use the proceeds to
> finance at least some portion of my next EV project... So I find myself
> considering potential demand for different kinds and styles of converted
> vehicles.
>
> Now that you understand my motivation, I would like input from the list as
> to what sort of vehicle appears to be most in demand for EV conversions.
> There seem to be a few schools of thought in terms of conversion:
>
> 1. Compact/subcompact cars, i.e. Saturn or similar.  This has some appeal
> as to me, it seems the very most practical.
> 2. Light truck, i.e. Chevy S10.  Definitely some momentum, if the current
> conversion base is any indicator.
> 3. Light SUV.  Who can resist a cute Honda CR-V or Geo Tracker?  Don't see
> many conversions, though...
> 4. Motorcycles/scooters
>
> I think #4 is out of the question for this discussion, since it's really a
> whole other set of considerations and practicality assessment.
>
> I like to think I have a fair amount of mechanical ability; the "ease" of
> conversion of a small truck doesn't necessarily hold much additional
> appeal to me, although I have known to throw my share of "words" at auto
> repair challenges (haven't we all?).
>
> To throw another log on the mental fire: I have in hand a 1999 Saturn SL
> sedan, which would seem to be the perfect conversion candidate- it's
> pretty light at 2400 lbs curb weight, has manual steering already (can you
> believe it, a 1999 vehicle with manual steering), only about 106K (still
> running well, so could recoup something from ICE resale), and there's Ken
> Norwick's excellent conversion diary for an almost identical car.
>
> Thoughts?  For the record, "version 2.0" for me will probably be either #1
> or #3.
>
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:49:26 +0000
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] li battery - pricing
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
        
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi,
  First let me say congrats on the new records. I just have a couple of 
questions. How many cycles do you have on your batteries and have you had any 
capacity reduction? I tried to log onto your
Thunderstruck website and got a page about some hacker. Could you please send 
me the correct address. Since reading your post I have contacted LTC and got 
some pricing. I have listed this below. You might let me know if this is close 
to what they charged you. They also told me they have a 480 ah cell for 
submarines for $4000 - Ha Ha. They said its the size of a gallon can. I
would need a bigger budget for 20 of them but it would cut down on balancing.
Rick Prentiss

7.5 Ah  UHP 341450     1 - 100  $120  100 - 1000  $105
27  Ah  HP 601300        1 - 100  $275  100 - 1000 $247
45  Ah  HP 602040        1 - 100  $450  100 - 1000 $405 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > > Behalf 
> > > Of Brian D. Hall 
> > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:18 PM 
> > > To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu 
> > > Subject: [EVDL] NEDRA Record 
> > > 
> > > Just back from one of the most fun days to date, Our twin motor AC drag 
> > > Bike 
> > > powered by LTC batteries (86.4 volts) running 
> > > in the 96 volt motorcycle class.our time was 7.169 @ 92.51 mph this 
> > > bets 
> > > Shawn Lawless (AGNS) time of [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > further our 1/4 mile time was 11.728 @101.19 mph. This is faster than 
> > > all 
> > > the other MT records except for Bills Killacycle records and it was done 
> > > at 
> > > a very low voltage. 
> > > Thanks to LTC for their sponsorship, making this all possible. 
> > > Oh we also made it into the 100mph club. 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Brian D. HAll 
> > > Thunderstruck-ev.com 
> > > 3200 Dutton Ave #319 
> > > Santa Rosa, Ca 95407 
> > > 707-575-0353 voice 
> > > 707-544-5304 fax 
> > > _______________________________________________ 

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:55:16 -0700
From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Questions to the list.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi Ken,

You will probably also benefit from reading "Build Your Own Electric 
Vehicle", by Bob Brant.  It's got a lot of answers to the questions 
you've asked about EV theory.

<http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/dp/0830642315>



Kenneth G. Gordon wrote:
> On 21 Feb 2008 at 6:49, Bob Bath wrote:
> 
>> I'm sure someone suggested "Convert It" by Mike Brown
>> of ElectroAutomotive, but that gave me my start.
> 
> Thanks. I'll order it asap.
> 
> Ken Gordon
> 
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

-- 
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:19:18 -0500
From: Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] i MiEV Petition Featured on Edmunds Green Car Advisor
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

http://blogs.edmunds.com/GreenCarAdvisor/249



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:25:11 -0500
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


> Check the link below for what is probably the most comic electric car of> all 
> times.> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/family_time_wel.php> >> > 
> Mark E. Hanson> > 184 Vista Lane> > Fincastle, VA 24090> > www.solectrol.com 
> <http://www.solectrol.com> 540-473-1248-H
_________________________________________________________________
Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:32:38 -0500
From: "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

And they spent $60k on that? WHAT?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:25 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car


>
>> Check the link below for what is probably the most comic electric car of> 
>> all times.> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/family_time_wel.php> 
>>  >> > Mark E. Hanson> > 184 Vista Lane> > Fincastle, VA 24090> 



------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:42:58 -0800 (PST)
From: fsabolich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Izetta in Siagon?
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


They say that hopefully they'll have them ready to sell in about a year (from
the time they put the vehicle on evalbum).

When you see the frame naked, the hub motor solution looks really clean. 
Hopefully they can get the volume high enough to keep the hub motors at a
reasonable cost.

We have a little go-cart running on crystalyte hub motors; now waiting for
completion of larger hub motors.

Fran


Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> 
> 
> http://w2.isettashop.com/epages/luk.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/isettashop.com/Categories/Restoration
> 
> http://www.evalbum.com/1548
> 
> There is a basic aftermarket frame that holds the batteries & new
> suspension.  Seems simple and a great idea.  The motor or transmission
> won't get in the way.  Lawrence Rhodes......
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Electric-Izetta-in-Siagon--tp15614323p15618182.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:43:33 -0500
From: Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

8,000 lbs and 40mph top speed.  It must have a lot of batteries, why 
isn't the range more than 80mi?

Dmitri wrote:
> And they spent $60k on that? WHAT?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:25 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car
>
>
>   
>>> Check the link below for what is probably the most comic electric car of> 
>>> all times.> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/family_time_wel.php> 
>>>  >> > Mark E. Hanson> > 184 Vista Lane> > Fincastle, VA 24090> 
>>>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>   



------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:52:34 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] li battery - pricing
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

There are many cheaper Lithium options available. These cost over
$3750/kWh for the 7.5Ah cells; the American company K2 Energy sells
their 26650EV cells for about $750/kWh, and their power cells for not
too much more than that. (They buy the cells from China and provide
their own Q.A. and customer support.) If you're willing to buy from a
relatively unknown Chinese company, you can get closer to $560/kWh.

Of course, all of these options leave you to figure out cell
interconnects and BMS yourself.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 11:49 AM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>   First let me say congrats on the new records. I just have a couple of 
> questions. How many cycles do you have on your batteries and have you had any 
> capacity reduction? I tried to log onto your
>  Thunderstruck website and got a page about some hacker. Could you please 
> send me the correct address. Since reading your post I have contacted LTC and 
> got some pricing. I have listed this below. You might let me know if this is 
> close to what they charged you. They also told me they have a 480 ah cell for 
> submarines for $4000 - Ha Ha. They said its the size of a gallon can. I
>  would need a bigger budget for 20 of them but it would cut down on balancing.
>  Rick Prentiss
>
>  7.5 Ah  UHP 341450     1 - 100  $120  100 - 1000  $105
>  27  Ah  HP 601300        1 - 100  $275  100 - 1000 $247
>  45  Ah  HP 602040        1 - 100  $450  100 - 1000 $405
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>  > > > Behalf
>  > > > Of Brian D. Hall
>  > > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 4:18 PM
>  > > > To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
>  > > > Subject: [EVDL] NEDRA Record
>  > > >
>  > > > Just back from one of the most fun days to date, Our twin motor AC drag
>  > > > Bike
>  > > > powered by LTC batteries (86.4 volts) running
>  > > > in the 96 volt motorcycle class.our time was 7.169 @ 92.51 mph this
>  > > > bets
>  > > > Shawn Lawless (AGNS) time of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > > further our 1/4 mile time was 11.728 @101.19 mph. This is faster than
>  > > > all
>  > > > the other MT records except for Bills Killacycle records and it was 
> done
>  > > > at
>  > > > a very low voltage.
>  > > > Thanks to LTC for their sponsorship, making this all possible.
>  > > > Oh we also made it into the 100mph club.
>  > > >
>  > > > --
>  > > > Brian D. HAll
>  > > > Thunderstruck-ev.com
>  > > > 3200 Dutton Ave #319
>  > > > Santa Rosa, Ca 95407
>  > > > 707-575-0353 voice
>  > > > 707-544-5304 fax
>  > > > _______________________________________________
>  _______________________________________________
>  For subscription options, see
>  http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:24:52 -0500
From: "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Questions to the list.
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
        reply-type=original

Basically, you'd have less problems/costs using a transmission, so just go 
with a transmission.
High voltage is good, as you say, but the cost of components goes up, so 
it's a balance one needs to make. Go as high as possible without the need 
for more expensive ones.

> 8) Is keeping the total weight as low as possible, and rolling
> friction at a minumum, the only way to extend range when
> using standard flooded batteries?

No. Lower weight mostly minimizes your costs, but range mostly depends on 
the proportion of battery you have to the finished total weight of the car, 
air resistance(frontal area and coefficient of drag), rolling resistance, 
and driveline drag.
You generally want 1/3 of your finished weight in batteries.
Good examples: http://www.evalbum.com/1430 and http://www.evalbum.com/037 
These have almost 1/2 of weight in batteries. Very heavy, expensive(40 
batteries!), but long range.

> 9) How do you accurately measure rolling friction?

I think there were some posts on the EVDL on measuring it. Try searching the 
EVDL archive about measuring rolling resistance or friction.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kenneth G. Gordon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:11 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Questions to the list.


>I have a question or two for the collective wisdom............ 



------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 05:00:24 -0700 (MST)
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

That has got to be one of the worst designs I've ever seen.

A tiny car (seats one) that weighs 8,000lb (80 batteries!!!) and yet only
goes 45 mph with a range of only 80 miles? To top it off he spent $60,000
on it!

And this guy expects someone to be so impressed by his design that they
will invest $40,000 so he can try building another one?

>
>> Check the link below for what is probably the most comic electric car
>> of> all times.>
>> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/family_time_wel.php> >> > Mark
>> E. Hanson> > 184 Vista Lane> > Fincastle, VA 24090> > www.solectrol.com
>> <http://www.solectrol.com> 540-473-1248-H
> _________________________________________________________________
> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>




------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:21:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Elaphe ltd - interesting BLDC motors
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
        <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

http://www.elaphe.si/elaphe.php



------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:22:23 +0000
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Censorship, was Plasma Boy talking smack about
        2SSIC
To: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,       "Electric Vehicle
        Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:09 PM, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been giving a bit of thought about the group that is currently being
>  censored of which I am a member.

Roderick, you aren't being censored, you're being moderated.  This
just means that your messages are checked before being passed on.  I
think I'm in that group too, due to a single unwise comment made
about, ooh, 4 years ago.   I'm not that concerned - hey, I'm in good
company, right? :)

  However, it's not a big deal. It's not a freedom of speech thing
either.  In the same way you wouldn't be able to swear and rant or
defame someone in a TV interview and expect it to go out.  It's just
about the appropriateness of the venue.

  With all due respect, I do think you are making a bit too much out of this.



------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:41:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Glauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Very creative. My guess is he has little idea about what the rest of the EV
community is doing, thats why his idea is so different. I would have loved
to build something that fun with my dad growing up! I'm also guessing that
$60k includes tools (you need a lathe, drill press, welder, and new table
saw after all! At least thats what you tell the wife!), because the
plexi-glass, plywood, and hardware store brass hinges are not that
expensive. Though 80 SLAs ordered through the internet would cost a pretty
penny especially for UPS shipping!

 Either way, he looks like he had a great time with his kids making it and
impressing (scaring) his neighbors!

-Jon Glauser
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Electric-Pyramid-Car-tp15617887p15618709.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.



------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:43:10 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] gm volt
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

works for me and I certainly don't have a subscription. the article is 
factually wrong several times but that's another matter

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Can posts like this just be removed from the list?
> This article is no longer available online for free
>   



------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:43:19 -0800
From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT Anyone email me recently? Freedom EV
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'"
        <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Jerry,
None of my messages lost.  No worries.  

All is good on this end.  Much to do as I consider the business transfer
proposal.
This message needs to be short 'cause I'm in the middle of some final
Porsche stuff.
A couple detail questions:
You mentioned 235lbs FG weight.  Is that the total for both chassis AND
body?
How well do these pieces stack/nest for transport from FG shop to assembly
shop?

Finding a shop that will produce a quality product with the consistency I
would need is a primary thing for me.

I spoke with a fellow at the Salem boat place, and he said they are
interested in hearing more.  He also said that he knows another guy who
could also do it.
It would be a bit dicey for me to be the only one conveying our needs and
concept to them.  Things are off to a decent start, but it would be wise to
have your knowledge and background on the phone as the FG part of it is
hashed together.
Being more versed in the realm of the tube frame, I'd like to see some FG
vendor progress before I make any big commitments.
How are you with that?  Can I send their contact information?

-Richard- 


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of jerryd
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:13 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] OT Anyone email me recently? Freedom EV

          Hi All,
             Anyone who emailed me recently and not recieved
a rely please email me again as my ISP burped and erased
some. I saw some emails then they disappeared.
            Or call me at 813-671-3059 or email my other
account,
                           <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   




------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:48:30 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Doubler or Not
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

gottdi wrote:
> I am going to purchase a 72 volt DC to DC converter that puts out
> 24 volts. Or I can get the converter that puts out 12v and use a
> doubler so I can power the contactor. I was also told that I could
> just upgrade my accessories to 24 volt and use the 24 volt converter.
> What do you guru's recommend that I do in regards to the DC to DC
> converter. I don't really want to use a battery to power the components
> unless I can use the converter to keep the battery charged.

Any of the approaches you mentioned can work. Cars are 12v, so most 
accessories, contactors, etc. are this voltage.

But if your main contactor has a 24v coil, you can use a voltage doubler 
or separate DC/DC to power it.

You could also change your whole system over to 24v. Airplanes and some 
trucks and buses use 24v systems. But that's a lot of work unless there 
is some other reason to do it.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net



------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:56:05 -0500
From: "EVDL Administrator" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Sorry to break in again.  I said I was done with this thread but I think I 
should advise the list of a moderation action.

Although I don't object to Dan Frederiksen trash-talking about me, I won't 
let him use abusive language about other members of the list.  I've received 
several complaints about his contributions to this thread.  And I have to 
agree, he's way out of line and disruptive.  

There's also the fact that every time I open one of his posts, I have to 
wipe the flecks of his spittle off the inside of my monitor screen.  ;-)

Therefore I'm going be a Big Meanie (tm) and reject all further posts by him 
in this thread.  I will preserve them, however.  If anyone would like to 
read the rejected posts by Dan Frederiksen, please contact me by private 
email to receive copies.  see evdl.org/help for my private address.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =




------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:17:56 -0600
From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Censorship, was Plasma Boy talking smack about
        2SSIC
To: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,       "Electric Vehicle
        Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

How many of this group's posts have been censored? If the censoring
was only put in place in response to the flame war that happened last
month and are only blocking similar posts that are more about arguing
than about the original topic, then I don't see the problem with it.
Flame wars like that are bad for the list and scare away newbies.

If other posts are being blocked, though, then we have a big problem.
I don't want to believe that these people are being blocked due to
creativity; I want to believe David when he says that it's only flames
that are being blocked. If it's not, though, then something definitely
needs to be done.

I would be in favor of a publicly visible archive of moderated posts.
That way we can all see whether this censorship is a good thing or if
it's hurting the list.

-Morgan LaMoore

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been giving a bit of thought about the group that is currently being
>  censored of which I am a member. They do have one thing in common and that
>  is racing, but I decided to look a little deeper into some form of
>  commonality and I came up with this. This group of people all have
>  creativity at their core. I believe it is this need to express oneself that
>  bothers this group so much about being singled out for censorship. Most
>  Americans have shown that they would gladly give up their freedoms for a
>  little security. On this note I think I will side with Benjamin Franklin:
>  "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security
>  will deserve neither and lose both."
>
>  Roderick Wilde
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  For subscription options, see
>  http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>



------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:03:59 -0500
From: Ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Plasma Boy talking smack about 2SSIC
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
        <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Chuck Homic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Anyway, I'm as off-topic as the rest of this thread, and I'm hereby
> done.  I will not see any further posts in this thread, either, so that
> I'll not be tempted to drag it out.  I guess the only reason I'm posting
> is to represent what I believe to be the silent majority that it not a
> part of the "we hate David" club.  I think he does a fine (and again,
> thankless) job in keeping EVDL on-topic, and I appreciate his efforts.
> I respect racers when they have news to share with the list, and I agree
> they can do their bickering in private.  What's wrong with that?  Come
> to an agreement, and let us know how it went.  You invite moderation
> when you don't do us this common courtesy.
>
>

Well said. Speaking up now, from that same silent majority -- the
complaints of censorship are getting old. David has perfectly
explained his reasoning behind it, and whether we agree or not "it is
his house." On that note, another well-said snippet of your email ...


> Perhaps you could learn some perspective.  One can't have a totalitarian
> regime on an email list.  There is no army or SS thugs doing anyone's
> bidding.  We all know everyone's email addresses, we can all freely
> communicate.  You have chosen to voluntarily participate in David's
> forum.  David has certain goals for this forum, and most of us agree
> with those goals.  If you went to his house and he asked you to take off
> your shoes, you would take off your shoes out of respect, because it's
> his house.  You would not argue that wearing shoes is your right, and
> refuse.


I almost wrote something similiar in response to Roderick's latest
email, but what you said here is perfect for Roderick as well as Dan.
I'll just reply here to keep the noise down. Roderick, your Franklin
quote is wonderful ... If we're talking about a country, state, etc.
But it absolutely does not have bearing on the current situation on
this mailing list. Chuck sums it up perfectly .. David has every right
to control the topics on this list in order to keep us on track. If
you feel the need to share something that isn't welcome on the list,
send it direct - no one is placing limitations on your liberty.


Ben



------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:00:53 -0800
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric Pyramid Car
To: "'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

What a riot!



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

End of EV Digest, Vol 7, Issue 43
*********************************

Reply via email to