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Hi all, Regarding the graviton theory I've found an interesting description: "It is proposed that the photon is the sole elementary particle in nature; energy consists of helical wave photons and matter of orbital interlocking photons; gravitons are spinning linear wave photons which are emitted at a constant rate to preserve matter; the uneven transmission of gravitons causes the gravitational force and that the gravitational lens is a misnomer." I've found an article that in a simplistic way gives an overview of matter, energy and gravitational force. This article is a bit old but helps to understand the graviton subject. http://www2.rideau.net/gaasbeek/spap3.html It seems that gravitons are a form of photon emission different from the one that is defined as energy waves and the one that defines mass. Is this logical? Well, at least I think it is a good start for discussion. Cheers, "Ron McFarland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 17/02/2004 05:35:31 Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: "Ron McFarland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Black Holes and Gravity Carrier Greetings again to the list. It has been a while since I posted something to think about, and in that case I did a lot of arguing for my cause! I enjoyed it a lot, and I hope others did too. But I again must stress that I do not rise to the level where I can appreciate deep mathematical discussion, and so I hope that discussion on this topic that I will now raise can be expressed by logic (I have argued before that logic includes mathematics as a subset of logic but that logic also includes all things that mathematics seems to have no good way to define -- because mathematics is ultimately digital and so mathematics by its nature can only approximate the analog). Ok, on to the topic! :) Some experiments have indicated that gravity is associated with a force carrier, and that this force carrier moves somewhere below or at the speed of light. Experiments continue as the indications have not been absolutely proven. Perhaps I will be corrected on this, but it is my understanding that a force carrier is generally thought of as some sort of particle that transfers mass/energy between other particles. This presents a logical problem relative to black holes. Beyond the event horizon, nothing with mass can escape there from and make itself known to our observable universe. Apparently every particle has at least some mass, however tiny, else a black hole would be seen to radiate for reasons other than absorbsion of half of a virtual particle pair. (I always had trouble with that absorbsion mechanism of black hole evaporation, since it seemed logical to me that on the average 50% of what gets absorbed would be matter as we know it and 50% would be anti-matter, with an average net gain of zero absorbsion). The only logical way that I can fathom for energy to escape from a black hole, and express itself as gravity, is if the force carrier "particle" has absolutely no mass. Again, perhaps I will be corrected, but it is my understanding that gravity can only affect particles that have mass. But a "particle" expressed only as energy does not equate with e=mc^2 (e=0 * [the speed of light squared]) because e must then = 0. If a gravity carrier has any mass whatsoever then by what mechanism could it possibly and in such abundance escape from a black hole event horizon and make itself known in our observable universe? Or could it be that gravity is, in reality, pure nothing -- that gravity is an expression of the case where e really does = absolutely zero? Is gravity really just an attempt by matter to interact with an absolute nothing? If so, then is a black hole really -- nothing? Could it be that gravity is expressed relative to the *inverse* of e=mc^2? Ron McFarland ********************************************************************************* The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and / or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, the use of this information or any disclosure, copying or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. BAA, the world's leading airport company - http://www.baa.com ******************************************************************************