I'm not sure I follow your reasoning, but it wouldn't surprise me if
the Turing subset of my world has additional constraints - namely the
worlds seen by observers whose O(x)'s are prefix machines, not just maps.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 05:56:50PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> Le 10-juin-05, ? 14:59, Patrick Leahy a ?crit :
> >>Russell Standish:
> >>If the AP applies to the Sims Mark VII, then their reality will be a 
> >>description containing a "body" corresponding to their intelligences. 
> >>They will not be aware of the PC that their description is being 
> >>generated on. We, who inhabit the world with the PC will not be aware 
> >>of the countless other PCs, Macs, Xboxes, Eniacs, Turing machines, 
> >>pebbles in Zen monasteries etc running Sims Mark VII. So the PC 
> >>itself is actually irrelevant from the internal perspective of the 
> >>Sims.
> >
> >Well at least we agree on that.  No strange loops in this picture, so 
> >it is unlike the picture you outline in your paper.
> >
> Aargh .... Bad luck! A point where I disagree with both Schmidhuber 
> *and* Standish, at least here apparently.
> To explain I must assume comp and ... (for one) explicitly the *result* 
> of my thesis. In a nutshell: it is that, if comp is assumed, then the 
> correct law of physics are derivable from comp. (it makes comp 
> testable: derive physics from comp and compare with empirical physics).
> I will call the physics derived from comp: the comp-physics.
> Please admit this if only for the sake of the argument.
> Suppose I build a simulated city with some self-aware entities evolving 
> in that simulated environment. Then
> Either I simulate the correct comp physics, then apparently the 
> simulated entity cannot know they are simulated by me, but actually 
> this sentence has no meaning, because they are simulated by 2^aleph_0 
> immaterial stories (constituting arithmetical truth), so it is only in 
> a weak sense that they are failed. (actually it is not even possible to 
> simulate comp physics except in the "ridiculous" sense of running 
> (really) the universal dovetailer.
> Or I simulate incorrect comp physics, then the only way we could say 
> the simulated entity are failed is
> 1) either by killing them (in some absolute way) when they discover 
> discrepancies between the comp-physics they can find by herself and 
> their fake environment. But in that case their story is finite and its 
> measure can be shown equal to 0. Or
> 2) eithert I keep up correcting the simulation, but then in the limit I 
> don't fail them. Or I limit the cognitive ability of the entities, but 
> then either I will failed to genuinely fail them, or I will make them 
> inconsistent (and here too the measure can be shown equal to zero, and 
> that is related to the non-cul-sac phenomenon).
> It is an amazing positive consequence of machine's incompleteness that 
> you cannot genuinely failed any (relatively simulated or not) machine 
> having enough introspection power for a "very long time".
> Apparently, In machine's platonia, all lies leads soon or later to a 
> (recognizable) catastroph.
> Tp prevent falling into an inconsistency, this last conclusion follows 
> from comp, and remember that if comp is correct we cannot "know" it is 
> correct, and we cannot probably know that all lies leads soon or later 
> to a (recognizable) catastroph. But if you *bet* on comp, you can bet 
> on it!
> Bruno
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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