Dear Hal,

   This self-reference and self-containment is not a problem if one merely
assumes the anti-foundation axiom (set theory) instead of the usual axiom.
It is obvious, at least to me, that the totality of Existence must be all
inclusive, thus is Complete and co-Complete (includes all representations of
   It seems that we are stripping over the fact that we are playing around
with finite representations of the Totality and might be neglective the
consequences. ;-)



----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Ruhl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Let There Be Something

In my view the entire system we discuss is self referential. For example a line item on my list is the "features" of the list and thus the list itself. The list is a member of itself. There is no "outside" and thus I see no opportunity for, or a need for, a meaning or point.

Of course in order to allow it as an explanation one needs to postulate it and thus belief is required since proof it unobtainable [it being a postulate]. On the other hand is this postulate unreasonable? I do not at this time see why it would be.

Hal Ruhl

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