Bruno, fine,

do you mean that you can (with any considered means
you may apply) THINK differently from your "human
mind's" working conditions? That you can absorb and
understand the humanly unabsorbable and
ununderstandable? 

When I wrote my sci-fi, I wanted to apply something
'really' esoteric (non humanly understandable) and
invented for "my 'people' from that alien world" a
kind of energy with 3 (three) poles: a (+), a (-), and
a third one (without description how and what it may
be). 
Then later it occurred to me that this was just as a
human idea as the + and - to make it funny for humans.

I could not write (understnad?) about a system beyond
our thinking. 
Can you? 
What tool would you use for that? Surely not your
brain!

With friendship your

John

--- Bruno Marchal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Le 03-nov.-05, à 17:13, John M a écrit :
> 
> > Bruno,
> > I love your closing sentence! I am not a
> physicist.
> >
> > Why do you think that philosophers don't use some
> > anthropocentric mind-work in identifying
> 'principles'?
> 
> They use that indeed. But they use also deeper
> xxx-thropocentric 
> principle. To focus only to the human prejudice is a
> ... human 
> prejudice. deeper prejudices are the lobian one for
> example. (I can 
> prove to you that you are a lobian machine; note
> that I cannot prove 
> you are a consistent, still less a sound, lobian
> machine.
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > Our Earthenlocked thinking *tool* (we call it
> usually:
> > the brain) works 'humanly' whether in physics or
> in
> > any other mental exercise (philoso[hy included,
> even
> > the (pardon me) logic.
> 
> 
> *the* point is that there are many many many many
> logics. For a 
> number-platonist, classical logic is the more polite
> way to talk on all 
> the other logics.
> 
> 
> 
> > We may speculate how to step out (over?) these
> Earth
> > bound limitations, but even then we speculate
> using
> > our brain in the process.
> 
> That is why church thesis is great: it makes most
> fundamental theorem 
> in computer science independent of the choice of the
> computer or the 
> choice of the universal system.
> 
> A brain is a (local) device capable of making you
> understand 
> propositions independent of the brain. With comp you
> can bet that *you* 
> are independent of your brain (like a holliday trip
> can be independent 
> of the choice of the car, boot, or plane).
> 
> It is a little sad you seem not understanding that
> by "interviewing the 
> universal lobian machine" we have a tool for
> liberating us, not only of 
> our human prejudices but of our carbon-based origin,
> and far beyond, 
> actually.
> 
> Bruno
> 
> 
> 
> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
> 
> 
> 

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