# Re: Lobian Machine

```George,

```
The average human IS crazy according to comp. The smiley at the end of your sentence is unwarranted! This is a fairly undeniable ramification of what Bruno is telling us. If we *are* machines, why do we go about the place denying it? Those who have understood that computation precedes the laws of physics are the only ones who are sane (but of course I cannot prove that, being a consistent machine!)

```

```
In my view this is where ART has a role in what we are discussing here. Perhaps artists (composers, painters, poets etc.) are the ones who know intuitively that we are all mad (because we don't know what we are) and who then exploit our insanity in a creative manner to remind us of this unconsciously.
```
```
As Salvador Dali once said "The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad".
```
But he could not prove that either.

cheers,

Kim Jones

On 30/12/2005, at 3:33 PM, George Levy wrote:

```
```Bruno Marchal wrote:

```
Godel's result, known as Godel's second incompleteness theorem, is that no consistent machine can prove its own consistency:
```
IF M is consistent then M cannot prove its consistency
```
```

Bruno,

```
After I read your email, we had a gathering of family and friends, and my head being full of the subject of this post. I wanted to test the idea of Godel's second incompleteness theorem on the average people just to see how they would respond. I found the right place in the discussion to insert the paraphrase:
```
If I am sane, it is impossible to know for sure that I am sane.

```
This povoked some hilarity, especially with my kids (young adults) who probably view me as some kind of nutty professor. While this statement is mathematically true, it was not considered serious by the people I was talking with. I guess that the average human has no doubt about his own sanity.(But my kids had some doubts about mine) One way to prove that you are crazy is to assert that you are sane. This means that the average human is crazy! :-)
```
George

```
```
```