just imagine a fraction of the infinite afterlife:
to sing the pius chants for just 30,000 years by
'people' in heaven with Alzheimers, arthritis, in pain
and senility? 
Or would you choose an earlier phase of terrestrial
life for the introduction in heaven: let us say: the
fetal age? or school-years with the mentality of a
teenager? Would you love spouse No 1,2,or 3? Would you
forget about the biggest blunder you did and regretted
all your life? 
Or would you prefer the eternal brimstone-burning
(what a waste in energy) without a painkiller?

I did not ask about your math, how many are involved
over the millennia? I asked a Muslim lately, what the
huris are and what the female inhabitants of heaven

An agnostic has to define what he does 'not' know,
hasn't he? 
Just as an atheist requires a god 'not' to believe in.
We are SOOO smart!

Have a good day

John M

--- Norman Samish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm agnostic, yet it strikes me that even if there
> is no God, those that decide to have faith, and have
> the ability to have faith, in a benign God have
> gained quite a bit.  They have faith in an
> afterlife, in ultimate justice, in the triumph of
> good over evil, etc.  Without this faith, life for
> many would be intolerable.  
> If there is no God, there is no afterlife and they
> get a zero.  If there is a God, there is an after
> life and they get infinity.  So how can they lose? 
> Maybe Pascal's Wager deserves more consideration.
> Norman Samish
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brent Meeker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <>
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:25 PM
> Subject: Re: belief, faith, truth
> Even within the context that Pascal intended it is
> fallacious.  If you worship the God of Abraham and
> there is no god, you have given up freedom of
> thought, you have given up responsibility for your
> own morals and ethics, you have denied yourself some
> pleasures of the mind as well as pleasures of the
> flesh.
> It's a bad bargain.
> Brent Meeker
> “The Christian religion is fundamentally opposed to
> everything I hold in veneration- courage, clear
> thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of
> the truth.” --- H. L. Mencken
> Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> > That's right: if you believe in the Christian God
> and are wrong, the real God (who may be worshipped
> by an obscure group numbering a few dozen people, or
> by aliens, or by nobody at all) may be angry and may
> punish you. An analogous situation arises when
> creationists demand that the Biblical version of
> events be taught alongside evolutionary theory in
> schools: if we are to be fair, the creation myths of
> every religious sect should be taught.  - Stathis
> Papaioannou
> > 
> >> On Mon, Jan 30, 2006 at 12:36:46AM +1100, Stathis
> Papaioannou wrote:
> >> >
> >> > [Incidently, can you see the logical flaw in
> Pascal's Wager as 
> >> described
> >> > above?]
> >> >
> >>
> >> I always wondered why it should be the Christian
> account of God and Heaven that was relevant.

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