Georges Quénot wrote:

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> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Georges Quenot wrote: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>>> Georges wrote: > >>>>> - The multiverse is isomorphic to a mathematical object, > >>>> This has to be saying simply that the multiverse IS a mathematical > >>>> object. > >>>> Otherwise it is nonsense. > >>> No, because all mathematical objects, as mathematical objects > >>> exist (or don't exit) on an equal basis. Yet the universe is only > >>> isomorphic to one of them. It has real existence, as opposed > >>> to the other mathematical objects which are only abstract. > >> That is the question. > >> > >> That "[The universe] has real existence, as opposed to the > >> other mathematical objects which are only abstract." is what > >> I called a dualist view. > > > > Dualism says there are two really existing realms or substances. > > Saying the physical realm is concrete and real and the mathematical > > realm is abstract and unreal is not dualism. > > This *splits* "things" into "realness" and "abstractedness". No abstract "objects" aren't real things at all. There is only one kind of existing thing, ie real, physical things. > It postulates "material substance" yes, but only material substance. Hence it is monism, not dualism. > just as classical dualism > postulates a "spiritual substance" as well as a material substance. > (and just as once vitalism > postulated a "living substance"). > > Last but not least: you are unable to explain what you mean > bt "real" except by a tautology or via a reference to common > sense that no longer appears to be consensual. I am not sure what you mean by "non-consensual". Everyone believes that sticks and stones and what they had for breakfast are real. > >> Both view seem to have their champions here. I guesse that > >> when saying "This has to be saying simply that the multiverse > >> IS a mathematical object." Tom ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) defends > >> the monist view as obvious and the only one making sense while > >> when saying "[The universe] has real existence, as opposed > >> to the other mathematical objects which are only abstract." > > > > Well, I've never seen a mathematical object. Have you > > ever seen the number 3? > > Have you ever seen a single photon? Or even an electron? They can be detected by apropriate instrumentation. > Do you descend from the ape by your father or by your mother? > :-) > You may find the monist idea crazy or a nonsense but it does > not (completely) appear as such to everybody. The Devil is in the details. I await mathematical-monist accounts of consciousness, causality and time. > Georges. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---