Quentin Anciaux wrote:
Le Samedi 18 Mars 2006 01:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
Ground them operationally, then. Real things have real properties and
things don't. Real properties can be observed empirically. Primeness
then is not
a real property.


I have to ask you one more time, but I'll reverse the question, what does it 
means for an object not to be real (hence being abstract) ? it is not a joke, 
I want to know. 
I will insert my grain of salt in a very active thread....

In my opinion, reality is relative, more precisely, the perception of reality depends on the level of implementation or the level of illusion.

Here I use the term implementation to refer to third person perception and illusion to refer to first person perception.

For example, a simulated character perceives simulated objects as real. He has the illusion that they are real.

Similarly we perceive our world to be real. It kicks back. We have the illusion that our world is real. Is it? It all depends how you look at it. One could say that our consciousness is emergent by the bootstrapping of reflexive illusions: our world is an illusion that allows us to have the illusion that we exist.

(I am not sure but it may be that  my term "illusion" has the same meaning as the term "dream" that Bruno very often uses as in "we are dreaming machines." )

Thus, in my opinion, there is no absolute reality. All we have is the implementation/illusion of reality at our level of implementation/illusion.

George Levy

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