Tom: one excerpt I try to address:

"Closed system (Principia Cybernetica): An isolated
system having no
interaction with an environment.  A system whose
behavior is entirely
explainable from within, a system without input..."
(I skip the rest, including the mathematical closure
as irrelevant for my reply).

How do you know about such system?
What I mean is: if NO interaction reaches or leaves
the 'system', (it includes 'information as well) it
does
not even 'exist' for us. It is more than a 'black
hole' which is said to be receptive. A 'closed
no-thing'?

John M


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Caylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Everything List"
<everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: why can't we erase information?




Bruno Marchal wrote:
> Le 25-avr.-06, à 17:37, Tom Caylor a écrit :
>
> >
> > In fact, "closed system" and "meta element" seem
to be contradictory.
>
> Not necessarily. It could depend of what you mean
exactly by "closed".
> Closure for the diagonalization procedure is the
key. Diagonalization
> is the key of the "heart of the matter". I will come
back on this
> later.
>

Closed system (Principia Cybernetica): An isolated
system having no
interaction with an environment.  A system whose
behavior is entirely
explainable from within, a system without input...

Mathematically, a closed system contains its boundary,
or it contains
its limit points.  In other words, anything
expressable with the given
axioms/language is itself a member the system.
...SKIP
Tom




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