Le 21-juil.-06, à 00:26, 1Z wrote (to Jesse)

> If you can't even express qualia mathemtically how
> can you have a mathemtically necessary psychophysical law ?


Mmmm.... I smell a pre-godelian conception of mathematics. No rich part 
of math can be self-sufficient.
But that absence of self-sufficiency can itself been made mathematical 
(Godel, Turing, Post).

So we can do this: we can show that any machine (enough rich, lobian) 
which introspects itself (in a precise theoretical computer science 
(needing some more stuff on the Fi)) can discover true facts about 
herself, and at the same time can discover that such facts are not 
provable or 3-communicable. She can even discover sequence of concepts 
like larger and larger notion of truth, and guess correctly that the 
limit is not even nameable.

Wittgenstein said (in its youth) that we should not speak about we 
cannot speak, but he was wrong. Indeed the machine which introspects 
itself already can say at least this:  "that we should not speak about 
we cannot speak". Like Wittgenstein actually. The machine can already 
show that there is something which she cannot talk about if she want to 
remain consistent.

This can be made precise with the logics G&Co, but for this I should 
explain before the roadmap George has suggested (asap).

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/


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