On Friday, June 20, 2025 at 6:50:54 AM UTC-6 John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Jun 20, 2025 at 8:17 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: *If you are holding an object and standing motionless on the Earth's surface then you and the object are still following a path through 4D non-Euclidean spacetime because both of you are still moving through time, but that path is NOT a geodesic because a force is being applied to the bottom of your feet. When you release the object its spacetime path suddenly changes to that of a geodesic while your path remains non-geodesic. And things on different spacetime paths is the definition of "movement".* ********************* *> I don't understand how your text answers my question. I highlighted your claim above. What causes the "sudden" change you refer to above.* *YOU were the cause because you suddenly release your hold on the object, so the force on the object suddenly stopped, so the path of the object through 4D spacetime suddenly changed to a geodesic path, BUT you remained on a non-geodesic path because you were still experiencing a force on the bottom of your feet, so the distance between your fingers and the object suddenly started to increase. * *If you were in freefall (that is to say if there was no force being applied to the bottom of your feet) and released your grip on the object then the distance between your fingers and the object would NOT increase. * *> Are you invoking magic?* *No because I don't think you're Harry Potter * *> You seem to claim that 4D curvature is the cause, as if it replaces an external force called gravity.* *I don't claim that, Einstein claimed that in 1915, and every experiment and observation after that has failed to prove that Einstein was wrong. As far as we can tell gravity is geometry. * *> Maybe you don't understand my question or won't admit you don't know the answer. AG* *I don't know the ULTIMATE answer to ANYTHING because without exception questions either go on forever or terminate in a brute fact. * I'd like an interim answer, and what Wheeler says -- that space tells matter how to move -- is woefully inaccurate. AG *John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* I think I know the answer. I posted it earlier but you never confirmed or disconfirmed. I think the geodesic equations must have space and time dependent on each other, sort of like the LT does. When the object is released, its proper time continues to increase, forcing its spatial components to change. This IS "the cause" of the spatial motion from being spatially at rest due to the external force. When it moves, it does so on a geodesic path due to the postulate in GR, that free fall motion is geodesic. AG -_= -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a843d784-9b42-436d-bd10-a6c6301ccb1dn%40googlegroups.com.
