I haven't cast anything into set language, just using words.

However, if you identify a universal dovetailer UD with its execution
trace UD*, then UD* would indeed not statisfy the foundation axiom.

However, I tend not to make that identification, and also just to play
it safe I'm in the habit of using the term "ensemble" when referring
to things like UD*.

As for causal chains - what does set theory have to do with that?

Cheers

On Sat, Nov 18, 2006 at 11:20:26PM -0500, Stephen Paul King wrote:
> 
> Hi Russel,
> 
>     Are you assuming non-well founded sets?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-well-founded_set_theory
> 
> Onward!
> 
> Stephen
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Russell Standish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:12 AM
> Subject: Re: UDA revisited
> 
> 
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 19, 2006 at 02:36:04PM +1100, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> >>
> >> But if a physical universe is needed to run the UD, without a physical 
> >> universe
> >> there is no UD. It's a circular argument unless you have some other 
> >> argument
> >> showing a computation can run without physical hardware.
> >>
> >> Stathis Papaioannou
> >
> > The argument is that its "turtles all the way down", or in other words
> > that there is no first cause.
> >
> > It seems that there are three possibilities:
> >
> > 1. Causal chains are infinite and unbounded
> > 2. Causal chains are infinite but bounded (the causal chain is
> > circular).
> > 3. Casual chains are finite and bounded (first cause is needed)
> >
> > Only in case 3 is a physical universe needed to run the UD. My
> > personal taste is for case 2, but I doubt there is any way of
> > empirically settling the matter, and many people find all 3 options
> > distasteful.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > PS - I'll need to think a bit about Colin's post... :)
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > A/Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
> > Mathematics
> > UNSW SYDNEY 2052                  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Australia                                http://www.hpcoders.com.au
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.430 / Virus Database: 268.14.6/536 - Release Date: 11/16/2006 
> > 3:51 PM
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
A/Prof Russell Standish                  Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Mathematics                              
UNSW SYDNEY 2052                         [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Australia                                http://www.hpcoders.com.au
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to