Le Dimanche 26 Novembre 2006 22:54, Colin Geoffrey Hales a écrit :
<SNIP>
> What point is there in bothering with it. The philosophical zombie is
> ASSUMED to be equivalent! This is failure before you even start! It's
> wrong and it's proven wrong because there is a conclusively logically and
> empirically provable function that the zombie cannot possibly do without
> phenomenality: SCIENCE. The philosophical zombie would have to know
> everything a-priori, which makes science meaningless. There is no novelty
> to a philosophical zombie. It would have to anticipate all forms of
> randomness or chaotic behaviour.... NUTS.

But that's exactly what all the arguments is about !! Either identical 
functionnal behavior entails consciousness either there is some magical 
property needed plus  identical functionnal behavior to entails 
consciousness.

> This is failure before you even start!

But the point is to assume this "nonsense" to take a "conclusion", to see 
where it leads. Why imagine a "possible" zombie which is functionnally 
identical if there weren't any dualistic view in the first place ! Only in 
dualistic framework it is possible to imagine a functionnally equivalent to 
human yet lacking consciousness, the other way is that functionnally 
equivalence *requires* consciousness (you can't have functionnally 
equivalence without consciousness).

> This is failure before you even start!

That's what you're doing... you haven't prove that zombie can't do science 
because the "zombie" point is not on what they can do or not, it is the fact 
that either acting like we act (human way) entails necessarily to have 
consciousness or it does not (meaning that there exists an extra property 
beyond behavior, an extra thing undetectable from seeing/living/speaking/... 
with the "zombie" that gives rise to consciousness)L.

You haven't prove that zombie can't do science because you tells it at the 
starting of the argument. The argument should be weither or not it is 
possible to have a *complete* *functionnal* (human) replica yet lacking 
consciousness.

Quentin

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