>>>> That's it. Half the laws of physics are going neglected merely because
>>>> we
>>>> won't accept phenomenal consciousness ITSELF as evidence of anything.
>>> We accept it as evidence of extremely complex neural activity - can you
>>> demonstrate it is not?
>> You have missed the point again.
>> a) We demand CONTENTS OF phenomenal consciousness (that which is
>> perceived) as all scientific evidence.
>> but
>> B) we do NOT accept phenomenal consciousness ITSELF, "perceiving" as
>> scientific evidence of anything.
> Sure we do.  We accept it as evidence of our evolutionary adaptation to
> survival on Earth.

Evdiencde of anything CAUSAL OF PHENOMENAL CONSCIOUSNESS. You are quoting
evidence (a) at me.

>> Evidence (a) is impotent to explain (b).
> That's your assertion - but repeating it over an over doesn't add anything
> to its support.

It is logically impossible for apparent causality depicted in objects in
phenomenal scenes to betray anything that caused the scene you used. This
is like saying you conclude the objects in the image in a mirror caused
the reflecting surface that is the mirror.

This is NOT just assertion.

"Empirical evidence derives no necessity for causal relationships"

Well proven. Accepted. Not mine. All empirical science is like this there
is no causality in any of it. Phenomenality is CAUSED by something.
Whatever that is, is caused all our empirical evidence.

> Maybe some new physics is implied by consciousness (as in Penrose's
> suggestion) or a complete revolution (as in Burno's UD), but it is far
> from proven.  I don't see even a suggestion from you - just repeated
> complaints that we're not recognizing the need for some new element and
> claims that you've proven we need one.
> Brent Meeker

OK. Well I'll just get on with making my chips then. I have been exploring
the physics in question for some time now and it pointed me at exactly the
right place in brain material. I am just trying to get people to make the
first steps I did.

It involves accepting that you don't know everything and that exactly what
you don't know is why our universe produces phenomenality. There is an
anomaly in our evidence system which is an indicator af how to change.
That anomaly means that investigating underlying realities consistent with
the causal production of phenomenal conciousness is viable science.

The thing is you have to actually do it to get anywhere. Killing your
darlings is not easy.

Colin Hales

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