Bruno, Stathis, Brent, Peter,Brent, Tom, Hal and others,

I have to be very impertinent here and try to draw your attention to something you are just not getting.

There is NO ultimate answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything except that IT IS, and you are here to take part in it and observe yourself and others doing so. Existence is the source of value, indeed it is the essence of value.

I am not in the habit of putting myself forward, but here I believe the ideas are what count and I believe the issue is very important. I mean at 55 yo I know I have already attained 'old fart' status for most people I meet. But one thing I know for sure is that, just like me, YOU are not going to live for ever. As most of you seem a fair bit smarter than me I assume that you can/will mostly choose how you spend your limited lifetime. Choose wisely 'cause it's a once-off.

I really do think that before any of you get much older you should take a VERY careful look at what I have been writing here. Have a look also at the common meanings for the word physics [samples included below]. If you don't then I think you are going to spend the rest of your lives chasing shadows, and end up a bunch of old men sitting on the cyberspace equivalent of a park bench, STILL chewing over the same old problem! Of course, if that is what you want then that's fine. But don't say you weren't warned!  :-)

the fact is, being conscious is inherently paradoxical, and there is no escape from the paradox, just like there is no escape from the universe - until you die that is. Your impressions, perceptions, feelings, intuitions, etc. of being here now [where you are of course] is what it is like to be the updating of the model of self in the world which you brain is constantly constructing all the time you are awake. When you sleep there are times when enough of the model gets evoked that you have a dream that you can remember. The paradox is that for most of the time we assume that this awareness - consciousness, call it what you like - IS the world, i.e. what it is like to be 'me' here now, whereas in fact it is only what it is like to be the model of 'me' here now. This does not mean that you don't exist; you do exist, and you must pay taxes in partial payment for the privilege, until you die that is. [I work for the Australian Taxation Office so I know about these things :-] There is however a lot more stuff going on in your brain than is actually explicitly involved in your consciousness of the moment, as far as I can see there are usually a couple or triple of very sophisticated tasks going on in parallel but swapping in and out of focussed attention as needs and priorities of the moment require. There are often also several other tasks simmering away like pots on the back burners of your stove.

I believe it is the hippocampus which maintains the tasks in process through re-entrant signalling to the relevant cortical and other areas which embody the salient features of the constructs involved. Binding is achieved through re-entrant signalling of resonant wave forms such that each construct EXISTS as a dynamic logical entity able to maintain its own structure sufficiently to prevent certain other things happening and to invoke through association [or perhaps through reaction to patterns of inhibition, whatever] other constructs as necessary. Note the key word 'exists'. The energy is supplied through the work done as the neurons re-establish the resting potential of their cell membranes. And here I should point out that most of the posts on this list do not seem to talk much about structure, and yet it is the spatia-temporal structures of interacting cell assemblies which embody the patterns of information which make muscles move. Think about it! This is what you should be really concentrating on, because you and I are NOTHING if our muscles can't be made to move in exactly the right way and the right time.

I know I have written 'I believe' up there a few times, but if you wish I can go hunting for you and find a bunch of references that back up what I am saying. I do not have access to pay-as-you-go academic journals, so I have been gleaning ideas and items of interest about this for the last couple of decades. I put it to you that if you seriously think I am wrong, then you have a moral duty to show me on the basis of clear and unambiguous empirical evidence where it is that I am wrong about this. Because otherwise it is just a matter of opinion and speculation, in which case mine is as good as anybody else's that I have seen on consciousness related lists and what I am proposing is not in contradiction to any good evidence that I have heard about. I think William of Occam would be more than happy with what I am putting forward.

I hope no one is offended by this. Is they are, sorry! But time returns for no one and you do not have for ever, just all the time there is - for you. That is what entropy is about.
See down below for:

10 results for: physics


Bruno Marchal wrote:


Le 05-janv.-07, à 05:55, Stathis Papaioannou a écrit :

Bruno: If consciousness supervenes on all physical processes a case can be  made that matter could be relevant for consciousness. (I see Peter  Jones makes a similar remark).
<<snip>>
You mean a quantum superposition? (then with comp such a superposition really describes an infinity of immaterial computational histories in which each page contains a finite amount of ink. Well it is rather similar with the quantum mechanical superposition).

The only sense in which (both with quantum field theory AND with the comp-physics) I can accept an infinite information on a black page is related to renormalization problem, spurious infinite energies ....

But then why to assume a physical world with all those infinities when comp forces us to deal with already enough infinities?
You loss me I'm afraid. Are you trying to save both comp AND the physical supervenience? We have not yet derive the whole of physics from comp, but we can already expect the "mind-matter" mapping to be something quite complex. For me it is obvious that to a mind state there will be an infinity of "computational states and histories" going through that mind state. The reverse is harder because we are unable (assuming comp) to singularize a "comp-physical states". Physical states *are* already first person plural (inter-subjective) appearances emerging from the gluing and overlapping of infinities of computations (and thus immaterial(*)). Unless I am wrong, standard computationalism is flawed, like both the monist and dualist doctrine of materialism are flawed.
It would be wrong to say that comp makes materialism refutated, but for a similar reason that it is wrong to say that bilogy has proves that vitalism is refutated. But biology has made vitalism explanation-useless, and computationalism makes materialism explantion useless too.

Of course it remains the possibility that comp is incorrect. If comp is true, we have to live with that possibility forever.

Bruno

10 results for: physics

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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
phys·ics     [fiz-iks] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun (used with a singular verb)
the science that deals with matter, energy, motion, and force.

[Origin: 1580–90; see physic, -ics]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
phys·ic   (fĭz'ĭk)  Pronunciation Key     
n.  
  1. A medicine or drug, especially a cathartic.
  2. Archaic The art or profession of medicine.

tr.v.   phys·icked, phys·ick·ing, phys·ics
  1. To act on as a cathartic.
  2. To cure or heal.
  3. To treat with or as if with medicine.


[Middle English phisik, from Old French fisique, medical science, natural science, from Latin, natural science, from Greek phusikē, feminine of phusikos, of nature, from phusis, nature; see bheuə- in Indo-European roots.]

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The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
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American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
phys·ics   (fĭz'ĭks)  Pronunciation Key     
n.  
  1. (used with a sing. verb) The science of matter and energy and of interactions between the two, grouped in traditional fields such as acoustics, optics, mechanics, thermodynamics, and electromagnetism, as well as in modern extensions including atomic and nuclear physics, cryogenics, solid-state physics, particle physics, and plasma physics.
  2. (used with a pl. verb) Physical properties, interactions, processes, or laws: the physics of supersonic flight.
  3. (used with a sing. verb) Archaic The study of the natural or material world and phenomena; natural philosophy.


[From Latin physica, from Greek (ta) phusika, from neuter pl. of phusikos, of nature; see physics.]

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The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
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WordNet - Cite This Source
physics

noun
the science of matter and energy and their interactions 

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University
The American Heritage Science Dictionary - Cite This Source
physics   (fĭz'ĭks)  Pronunciation Key    
  1. The scientific study of matter, energy, space, and time, and of the relations between them.
  2. The behavior of a given physical system, especially as understood by a physical theory.

The American Heritage® Science Dictionary
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American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition - Cite This Source
physics

The scientific study of matter and motion. (See mechanics, optics, quantum mechanics, relativity, and thermodynamics.)


[Chapter:] Physical Sciences and Mathematics


The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
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American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source

phys·ics (fzks)
n.


  1. Abbr. phys. The science of matter and energy and of interactions between the two, grouped in traditional fields such as acoustics, optics, mechanics, thermodynamics, and electromagnetism, as well as in modern extensions including atomic and nuclear physics, cryogenics, solid-state physics, particle physics, and plasma physics.
  2. Physical properties, interactions, processes, or laws.
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Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source

Main Entry: phys·ics
Pronunciation: 'fiz-iks
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
: a science that deals with matter and energy and their interactions in the fields of mechanics, acoustics, optics, heat, electricity, magnetism, radiation, atomic structure, and nuclear phenomena

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
On-line Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source

physics

physics: in CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary

On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98 Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source
physics [ˈfiziks] noun singular
the study of natural phenomena such as heat, light, sound, electricity, magnetism etc but not usually chemistry or biology
Example: Physics is his main subject at university.
Arabic: فيزياء
Chinese (Simplified): 物理学
Chinese (Traditional): 物理學
Czech: fyzika
Danish: fysik
Dutch: natuurkunde
Estonian: füüsika
Finnish: fysiikka
French: physique
German: die Physik
Greek: φυσική
Hungarian: fizika
Icelandic: eðlisfræði
Indonesian: fisika
Italian: fisica
Japanese: 物理学
Latvian: fizika
Lithuanian: fizika
Norwegian: fysikk
Polish: fizyka
Portuguese (Brazil): física
Portuguese (Portugal): física
Romanian: fizică
Russian: физика
Slovak: fyzika
Slovenian: fizika
Spanish: física
Swedish: fysik
Turkish: fizik

See also: physicist

Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version), © 2000-2006 K Dictionaries Ltd.

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