Friends:
Siding with Mark (almost?<G>)
just to a 'wider' view of mentality than implied by
physicalistic - physiologistic - even maybe
comp-related frameworks, indicating the domains we did
not even discovered, but love to disregard. Upon Marks
post --- Stathis Papaioannou (wroteamong more): <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...
Our bodies, including all neural tissue, are
constantly falling apart and being rebuilt.
Experiments with radiolabeled amino acids in mice, for example, suggest that the half life of protein in
the brain is about 10 days. The turnover at synapses
is even faster, a matter of minutes. So given months or years, you really are like a car in
which every single component has been replaced, the
only remaining property of the original car being the
design....<
Is it really?
Are we a mchanistic isolated structure and an
unchanging mechanism fabricates the replacements
exactly according to the 'origina' blueprint?
All that in a world that changes continually?
Don't the 'fanricating' units also change (including
the rules of fabrication? Don't the changed
replacement
parts influence the complexity of actions? Are we not
subject to a changing world with responding to more
than just 'inside' activity-patterns?
That may be applicable to a computer-contraption of
our present (first) embryonic primitivity and its
restriction into a hardware designed exactly and
exclusively for a type of software similarly designed
for exclusive application, - in 'that' hardware using
that ridiculously primitive binary system 'we' so
ingeniously invented to simulate in a 'very first'
elevation SOME of our mental functions (in the first
place arithmetical ones).

I am sure you do not deny a plasticity (I like
elasticity better) of the mind - I would add: and
body, i.e. ourselves, (everything in the world?)
stemming for 'replacements' with adjustment to the
changing ambiance - even unlimited environment (just
consider as an example our 'plastic' recollections vs
a rigid machine-memory) as in eye-witness reports.
Do you have exactly the same mentality by rigidly
replaced identical 'neuronal etc.' substitutes as was
the little rascal who went to his first communion? Or even same-thinking as you did when joining this list?
A negative to that: senescence is part of it, change
is not only 'addition', it is by 'streamlining' also
eliminating design-aspects all the way to destructing
the 'original' design. In a world-dynamism. Complexly.


John M

Mark Peaty writes:

> Brent: 'However, all that is needed for the
arguments that appear on this list is to recreate a
rough, functioning copy of the body plus a detailed
reproduction of memory and a brain that functioned
approximately the same.  That much might not be too
hard.  After all, as Stathis points out, you're not
the same atoms you were a week ago'
> MP: Well! I'm not going to let YOU pull the levers
or press any buttons if I have to be faxed anywhere
soon! You make  philosophers' copy-machines sound
like props for Frankenstein's  Monster or that movie
'The Fly'. Furthermore " ... memory and a brain that
functioned approximately the same" would seem to be
rather less than what Bruno's arguments about
copying require. But my point is that, whilst the
ideas are cute, they are also nonsense any way. Most
people have problems enough living from day to day,
and the only time that 'copying' of a person really
has any relevance is where surgery or prosthetic
augmentation of some kind really should be done to
alleviate suffering or prevent premature death.
> As for Stathis's assertion about seemingly minor
changes which commonly occur to people's brains as
they get older, like the odd little stroke here and
there, it is always a question of the facts in each
case. Some deficiencies turn out to be crucial in
terms of quality of life: loosing the use of one or
two fingers could be annoying, embarrassing and on
occasion quite dangerous. Losing the ability to
remember the names of all the people you know, would
likewise not be nice. On the other hand, losing the
ability to recognise things on the left side of your
world, or losing the ability to see the people you
knew before as being THOSE people such that you
become convinced that the person you are with is a
substitute, now that could be very dysfunctional and
very distressing. I have seen it written that in
fact most people who survive past middle age, do in
fact suffer from 'micro' strokes quite often but
usually the perceived experience is that of
progressively weakened memory. Not Alzheimer's which
is a league of its own, but just difficulty
remembering certain things.

Our bodies, including all neural tissue, are
constantly falling apart and being rebuilt.
Experiments with radiolabeled amino acids in mice,
for example, suggest that the half life of protein
in the brain is about 10 days. The turnover at
synapses is even faster, a matter of minutes. So
given months or years, you really are like a car in
which every single component has been replaced, the
only remaining property of the original car being
the design.

Stathis Papaioannou

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