Le 09-juin-07, à 22:38, John Mikes a écrit :

> Bruno;
>
> how about adding to Tom's reality survey the anti Aeistotelian: 
> Reality is what we don't  see?



OK. That is how we could  sum up Platonism.



> We "get" a partial impact of the 'total' and interpret it 1st person 
> as our 'reality',  as it was said some time ago here (Brent?)  
> "perceived reality"  what I really liked . Then came Colin with his 
> "reduced" (or what was his term?) solipsism: paraphrasing the 
> perceived reality into "OUR" world  what we compoase of whatever we  
> got.


OK. The difficulty is to keep track of the difference between first 
person singular (my pain, my joy, ...) and first person plural like the 
apparent wave collapse in Everett, if not the apparent schroedinger 
wave in Comp.




>
> I know that you ask your oimniscient Loebian machine,


Aaah... come on. It is hard to imagine something less omniscient and 
more modest than the simple lobian machine I interview, like PA whose 
knowledge is quite a tiny subset of yours.
You are still talking like a *pregodelian* mechanist. Machine can no 
more be conceived as omniscient, just the complete contrary.
And adding knowledge makes this worse. You can see consciousness 
evolution as a trip from G to G*, but that trip makes the gap between G 
and G* bigger. The more a universal machine knows, the more she will be 
*relatively* ignorant.
With comp, knowledge is like a light in the dark, which makes you aware 
of the bigness of the explorable reality, and beyond.



> but we, quotidien mortals,


Even the disembodied PA has to believe-intuit its (relative) possible 
mortality or breakdown, and this forever (wrongly or correctly if it 
does well the difference between the "hypostases-person-views").
When a universal machine knows that she is universal, then she has to 
be aware of its limitations soon or later.
To be immortal, with comp, means to be able to die, forever ...



> rely on our own stupidity about the world.

ALL Universal Machine have to do that. This has been proved. Without 
stupidity: no intelligence. To be a real scientist means to have the 
courage to be enough clear so that you can be shown wrong ...



> And in this department "perceived reality" is what we have and it is 
> close to Colin's personalized mini solipsism.


Physical reality, probably the border of the "lobian mind" is a first 
person *plural* sum of all lobian dreams. There is no ultimate 
substrate. By being "plural" it should better not been called solipsism 
imo. (I'm assuming comp of course).

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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