Quentin Anciaux wrote:
> On Tuesday 19 June 2007 11:37:09 Torgny Tholerus wrote:
>>  Mohsen Ravanbakhsh skrev:
>>> The "subjective experience" is just some sort of behaviour.  You can make
>>> computers show the same sort of >behavior, if the computers are enough
>>> complicated.
>>  But we're not talking about 3rd person point of view. I can not see how
>> you reduce the subjective experience of first person to the behavior  that
>> a third person view can evaluate! All the problem is this first person
>> experience.
>>
>>  What you call "the subjective experience of first person" is just some
>> sort of behaviour.  When you claim that you have "the subjective experience
>> of first person", I can see that you are just showing a special kind of
>> behaviour.  You behave as if you have "the subjective experience of first
>> person".  And it is possible for an enough complicated computer to show up
>> the exact same behaviour.  But in the case of the computer, you can see
>> that there is no "subjective experience", there are just a lot of
>> electrical fenomena interacting with each other.
>>
>>  There is no first person experience problem, because there is no first
>> person experience.
>>
>>  --
>>  Torgny Tholerus
> 
> Like I said earlier, this is pure nonsense as I have proof that I have inner 
> experience... I can't prove it to you because this is what this is all about, 
> you can't prove 1st person pov to others. And I don't see why the fact that a 
> computer is made of wire can't give it consciousness... there is no 
> implication at all.
> 
> Again denying the phenomena does not make it disappear... it's no explanation 
> at all.
> 
> Quentin

I think the point is that after all the behavior is explained, including brain 
processes,  we will just say, "See, that's the consciousness there."  Just as 
after explaining metabolism and growth and reproduction we said, "See, that's 
life."  Some people still wanted to know where the "life" (i.e. "elan vital") 
was, but it seemed to be an uninteresting question of semantics.

Brent Meeker 

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