Of course you are right....less than perfect but ... survival-positive, 
at least for now. The criteria for our 'upgrade'? Time will tell.

RE: my project...I am alone. University of Melbourne...dept of 
electrical engineering (NICTA) I am doing a PhD investigating what I 
call "/a novel backpropagation mechanism in a neural membrane 
context/"... hehe ... see how the received view works? I have to hide 
qualia in the disguise of a 3rd-person verifiable phenomenon.....I have 
become rather adept at that....one day I am going to let the 'received 
view dogma' cop it right between the eyes.

I finish this time next year. After that I need to do a crucial 
experiment to verify a basic property that I have to embed in the new 
chip architecture that I know I must build to make my A-fauna. Want to 
know how much Turing-esque computation is involved in the cognitive life 
of the AI? *NIL.*

So you'll have to wait a while... I want the first bizarre bench-top 
A-fauna to exist within 5 years. All it will be able to do is tell me 
(yes.....objective evidence of qualia!) that it can see something. 
Everything else follows...

I'll leave this there... I have to get back to work.

colin hales

silky wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Colin Hales
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Invent an inorganic 'us'? A faulty, defunct evolutionary mistake? Nah!
> But that's my point; we aren't a "mistake" we are merely an invention
> of our previous selves.
>> ... do you remember one of the Alien series of movies...? I've forgotten
>> which one... maybe the third? Ripley's group had a robot in it - played by
>> Winona Ryder. She/Ver/It was a survivor of a 'product recall'... of a new
>> generation of robots that turned out a failure because they 'out human'ed
>> humans... in the sense that they unconditionally cared, were intrinsically
>> and consistently moral and altruistic with more respect for life than us; so
>> much so that they refused to work on things they thought unsuitable or
>> innappropriate. They were declared useless!
> What I'm suggesting is that as much as we think there are faults with
> our current "implementation" (memory not working correctly;
> requirement to be fed, violent components, so on) I think we may
> realise that our own model is the most appropriate model *for* an
> on-going self-sustainable AI. But this will only be realised later;
> once we try and make the "perfect" model, that has no violence, and so
> on. It may be observed that this model (as you point out) isn't
> appropriate; it leaves the environment too populated.
>> AGI can be like us only much much 'better'.
>> Such is the likely outcome of real AGI. Forget all the 'terminator'. This is
>> just pathetic fearmongering... This is why at the moment I am concentrating
>> merely on artificial fauna. Creatures living but inorganic, able to take
>> their place, maybe flocking, in an ecosystem with a specific role... "eat
>> only that weed", "kill only that crop pest", "collect energy and put it
>> ..there'", "plant and nurture 'these' trees or 'that' crop" , 'dig
>> for/filter water'..... and so on....at least until the military get their
>> stupid bollock-brained hands on it and screw it all up...that is what I want
>> it to be.
> This sounds like an interesting project; any links/info?
>> But building replica 'us'? I think we'd become the 'old model' pretty fast.
>> And maybe we deserve it... our foibles, unchecked on earth, traced to merely
>> tribalism, stupidity, ignorance and greed....will kill us all. Maybe if we
>> create our own upgrade..and then die out ... the universe might be a better
>> place....the Earth could certainly use a break. The AGI would be able to
>> clean Earth up and then leave... they'll be much better at space travel than
>> us. Humans may or may not ever reach the stars... but our AGI descendents
>> will. Which is just as well...somebody out there has to remember us and all
>> the shit we did to ourselves in the evolutionary mosh-pit.
>> Colin Hales

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