On 02 Dec 2008, at 01:05, Abram Demski wrote:
> > Bruno, > > It sounds like what you are saying in this reply is that my version of > COMP+MAT is consistent, but counter to your intuition (because you > cannot see how consciousness could be attached to physical stuff). I have no problem a priori in attaching consciousness to physical stuff. I do have problem when MEC + MAT forces me to attach consciousness to an empty machine (with no physical activity) together with inert material. > If > this is the case, then it sounds like MGA only works for specific > versions of MAT-- say, versions of MAT that claim consciousness hinges > only on the matter, not on the causal relationships. On the contrary. I want consciousness related to the causal relationship. But with MEC the causal relationship are in the computations. The thought experiment shows that the physical implementation plays the role of making them able to manifest relatively to us, but are not responsible for their existence. > In other words, > what Günther called NMAT. So you need a different argument against-- > let's call it CMAT, for causal MAT. The olympization argument only > works if COMP+CMAT can be shown to imply the removability of inert > matter... which I don't think it can, because that inert matter here > has a causal role to play in the counterfactuals, and is therefore > essential to the physical computation. OK, so now you have to disagree with MGA 1. No problem. But would you still say "yes" to the mechanist doctor? I don't see how, because now you appeal to something rather magic like influence in real time of inactive material. Or, you are weakening the physical supervenience thesis by appeal to a notion of causality which seems to me a bit magical, and contrary to the local functionalism of the computationalist. The real question I have to ask to you, Günther and others is this one: does your new supervenience thesis forced the UD to be physically executed in a "real" universe to get the UDA conclusion? Does MGA, even just as a refutation of "naïve mat" eliminate the use of the concrete UD in UDA? It is true that by weakening MEC or MAT, the reasoning doesn't go through, but it seems to me the conclusion goes with any primitive stuff view of MAT or Matter activity to which we could attach consciousness through "causal" links. Once you begin to define matter through causal links, and this keeping comp, and linking the experience to those causal relation, perhaps made in other time at other occasion, you are not a long way from the comp supervenience. But if you don't see this, I guess the conversation will continue. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
