On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM, Bruno Marchal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> All this is a bit complex because we have to take well into account
> the distinction between
> A computation in the "real" world,
> A description of a computation in the "real" world,
> And then most importantly:
> A computation in Platonia
> A description of a computation in Platonia.
> I argue that consciousness supervenes on computation in Platonia. Even
> in Platonia consciousness does not supervene on description of the
> computation, even if those description are 100% precise and correct

Bruno, this is interesting and I have had similar thoughts of late regarding
along this vein.  The trouble is, I don't see how the "real" world can be
differentiated from Platonia.  Just as the UD contains instances of itself,
and hence computations within computations, can't mathematical objects
contain mathematical objects?  If so then aren't our actions in this
universe just as mathematcally or computationally fundamental as any other
instantiation in platonia?  Platonia might be highly interconnected even
fractal and so performing a computation in this universe in a sense hasn't
created anything new, but created a link to other identical things which
have always been there, and in the timelessness of platonia one can't say
which came before, or which is the original or most real.

After wrestling with block time, the MGA, and computationalism I'm starting
to wonder how computations are implemented in a 4 dimensional and static
mathematical object.  The best I can come up with is that the mathematical
structure is defined by some equation or equations, and that by virtue of
this imposed order, defines relations between particles.  Computation
depends on relations, be it electrons in silicon, Chinese with radios or a
system of beer cans and ping-pong balls; from the outside there is little or
no indication what is going on is forming consciousness, it is only relative
from the inside, and since these relations carry state and information
across one of the 4 dimensions of the universe we end up with DNA and brains
which record and process information in sequence, or so it appears to us
being trapped on within this equation defined in platonia.

In the case of a movie that is in this physical world, no mathematical
equation defines progression between frames and there is no conveyance of
information, the alteration of one frame does not affect any other which
would not be the case nor possible with a timeless mathematical object.


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